Greedy Drawf

[Pkltm]

I beg to differ. While you don't have to choose to pay for a dessert party, $80 for a few pastries and a view of fireworks that you already paid for with your admission is a ripoff no matter how you look at it.

If you're a family of four, that's $320. No way can you say that someone is "cheap" for not wanting to spend that on top of what a Disney vacation costs without it.

Have you been to a dessert party? We are done done two and just booked the frozen one, so I can saw from my opinion that I did not find them to be a rip off, the Star Wars one was exactly what we needed that day, it had been a long very stressful spent at the hospital and the opportunity to sit and relax, enjoy not only desserts but flatbreads, hummus, cheeses and cocktails, then leisurely helmet out spot for great viewing was worth every penny.

If I choose to spen $160 for DH and I to celebrate our 20th anniversary by eating and Elsa cupcake and some cheese fondue, I feel as though I will enjoy it.

Disney's stock price is infinitely more impacted by opening new gates (like Shanghai) and upgrading the core of their existing gates (Pandora, Toy Story, and Star Wars) than it is by some dessert party upcharge.

And, yes, Disney can enhance the overall experience without upcharging. The Food & Wine Festival is perfect example. It's evolved over time to bring hundreds of thousand of extra visitors to WDW without a special upcharge, and without taking away anything from another segment of the customer base.

Edit: And Disney is not the only stock price that has increased significantly since 2010. Let's not overreact to what that means.

The F&W festival has many upcharges from brunches to seminars to a burger black party.

Disney has been doing iocharges for years, behind the scenes tours are just that. We have done a few, some I thought was worth the money, other honestly not so much.

Disney vacations are for anyone who wants to go, parts of it will cater to kids others to teens and some to adults. Every time I hear "Disney is for kids" I die a little inside, if that was true why do we all still go?

We have kids and we choose not to take them until they were old enough to walk the parks all day and tall enough to ride what they wanted.

We all choose what we want to spend on our vacations, many are limited by budget, some by time. At the end of the day, I won't judge Disney for making profit and I won't judge people on how they spend their time and money.

 

[TygerHawks]

Skipped most of the replies. While I hate the idea of things costing more, part of me thinks it doesn't cost enough. I mean, have you seen the crowd levels lately? Part of these additional costs is crowd control. I liken it to the comic con circuit. A lot of people complain that x celebrity charges $75 for an autograph and $80 for a photo. However, that celebs lines are ridiculously long. If they charged a lot less, they would have to enact a lottery system and more people would be denied access.

 

[Westcoastwild]

THANK YOU. I literally choked on the water I was drinking at the Star Tours comment.


I agree with those who basically just feel that it depends on the family/person - this stuff is worth it to some people and not to others. For me, it's not worth it for an average trip, but there are exceptions - I paid a crazy amount for an Illuminations firework cruise on my honeymoon, for example, because it was a special occasion, I like having a front row view of it, and I'm sick of the cycle that always happens where I camp out way ahead of time and at the least second am being elbowed by rude people trying to squeeze me out of my spot. SImialr for Fantasmic - normally I just get there way in advance and eat some quick service food while waiting for the show to start. But this is our first trip with kids, and getting the toddlers to cooperate through that sounds kind of unpleasant, so we're going to do a dinner package. So circumstances can change the value of these events.

My bad. I meant Space Mountain.

But then in the case of star tours, the OP's argument also doesn't work because Star Wars has been part of the Disney parks since the '80s. Not a new focus.

I agree with your point about circumstances changing things. As a solo traveler I wouldn't pay for stuff like that but if I'm with family, it's the only way it'll work out.

 

[Delirium]

OK. Then define "tipping point" for me, as it relates to "some dessert party upcharge" or the like? Either it has a significant impact at some point or it doesn't.... if the latter, no "tipping point".

A 'tipping point' as it relates to a park experience, not one as it relates to the company's bottom line.

As far as the impact of the park experience, that may not be known for some time. The family of a 4 year old in 2017 that decides never to go back to Disney seems insignificant now. But, what happens when that 4 year old, who did not grow up visiting Disney, is 34 years old, and decides to take his/her family somewhere else on vacation?

Yes. I understand that Disney will almost assuredly survive losing some customers over an up-charge. I even stated above that, in theory, I don't have an issue with them. It's only since they have started to introduce new ones seemingly every month that I've wondered whether Disney is starting to get into dangerous territory with these. Enough is enough.

 

[HopperFan]

A lot of you will probably disagree with this, but here goes.

1) It would be very interesting to see the percentage of Disney visitors approving of the up-charges based on size of travel party (where the same household is responsible for all finances of the trip). I think it's safe to say that parties of 1, 2, & 3 have less of an issue with the up-charges than parties of 4 & 5.

2) The reality is that the majority of posters on Disboards have greater financial flexibility to not only attend Disney more often than others, but would also be more apt to pay these up-charges. The percentage breakdown of actual Disney visitors that perceive these up-charges positively is nowhere nearly as high as the percentage of Disboards posters that do.

3) In theory, I have no problems at all with Dsiney finding creative ways to make money. If there is money to be made, go for it. My main issue is the rapid frequency in which these have been coming out over the last couple of years. Disney has to be very careful. When they offer something 'special' to one segment of the customer base, they are in essence taking away something from a different segment. And, yes, charging extra for prime fireworks viewing spots DOES negatively impact the customer segment that cannot afford the charge. They can no longer watch from that spot.

4) The very core of Disney's customer base has always been, and should always be, families with young children. That segment of the population is the least likely to be able to afford to pay for up-charges. Kids are expensive even without Disney. There's a tipping point that Disney does not want to reach where fewer kids between the ages of 3-8 can fully enjoy what the company has to offer. Each up-charge runs the risk of taking a little bit of the magic away from the majority of that group.

I'll play ...

1) Obviously the more folks you bring the more you pay and that is where you have to make choices. I would venture that many large families may choose to stay offsite in MUCH less expensive lodging in order to be able to buy all the extras. That is where guests make a choice. I was once at SWW when a family of 6 walked up and paid a crazy amount for the Dessert Party, why crazy? because half the experiences that we had already had all day long they missed. There will always be guests with bottomless pockets. When planning a big trip like this, one then chooses what their priorities are and adjust their plans to work. None of the upcharges are required.

2) I would venture that those of us that go more often may likely be many of those booking this. We are always looking for something new and fresh, we have APs so when we set up a trip we try to add something extra. We can do this because we don't have to buy tickets. I think Disney sees many of us come and spend less, and taunt us with the specials. We have NO idea of guests opinions across the board and never will.

3) Maybe the frequency you feel is because Disney now has the crowds, follows spending and see untouched dollars going home. I honestly don't care if they offer something extra. I disagree that dessert parties take away from other guests. MK: Tomorrowland Terrace offers a limited viewing area and the gardens are new and were built with private viewing in thought, hence the fences and limited entry. Epcot: LOTS LOTS of good viewing and honestly don't think the dessert party is the best. DHS: I don't think they have prime viewing at all with the new show.

4) Maybe 50 years ago the small child families were their demographic but firmly believe that is no long the market they target. They know those families will come and they continue to offer things like BBB etc. But for many years the number of adult groups is growing, any given trip we notice way more adults than children. And more and more Disney is offering very adult events like Club Villain, Highway in the Sky, Disney After Hours, Dessert parties with liquor, more bars, Disney Springs, new POP rooms ........ Disney is happily marketing to all adult groups because they bring lots of cash and they go all day/night long. I fully disagree with this point, Disney isn't worried about that group, their needs are met what they want is the groups that every individual is bringing cash, they want more rooms, they spend money on overpriced drinks etc. Pandora, Star Wars Land, Epcots never ending festivals ... all moving to adult interests.

 

[Westcoastwild]

There's a glimmer of valid reasoning in what you are saying, but the way you said it comes off as elitist. For many, it's not a matter of being 'cheap'. It's a matter of being financially responsible. $80 for a once in a lifetime dessert party for a single traveler is no big deal. $400 for the average family of 5 for the same party borders on being irresponsible.

So, yes, I can see where some question these upcharges because, historically, the core Disney customer was always the 'family' with young children, not the single traveler or the retired couple that can better able to afford to pay those prices.

I'd argue that spending that much for the dessert party is no more fiscally isrresponsible than taking your family of 5 to Disney in the first place. I mean, that same family is spending much, much more on food, tickets, and hotels to just be at Disney. If you have the money and that's what you want to spend it on, great. If it takes an uncomfortable amount of money out of your budget, then you shouldn't go. My mother loves Disney and she would have spent any amount of money to take us. The park could cost 20 dollars each, and my father would still think grumble about price gouging. Because he doesn't want to pay any amount to go to a theme park. Neither view has anything to do with whether or not it's responsible. Because by its very nature, Disney is not a necessity, and it's an expensive frivolity. Even if you camp and live on granola bars, the passes are a huge chunk of money that would go a whole lot further at nearly every other family destination I can think of. It does not cost me $100 per kid per day to do to the beach, a national park, or even Europe. It's still worth it to me but I would not argue it's a smart use of my money. It probably falls somewhere between buying a coach purse and going out for cocktails with my girlfriends if responsibility is a sliding scale.

Anyway...Disney wants whoever will spend money to come. You could argue family with kids are the main target audience but Disney definitely also markets itself to those singles and retired folks with more disposable income. Families with kids are not buying the collectibles or expensive art or dining at V&A. I mean, some certainly are. But people like my parents aren't, and that's who you're saying the target audience is.

 

[Elmo888]

Not to mention the parks have never been entirely mouse or princess oriented. If there was a movie about star tours or thunder mountain or Matterhorn, I've never seen them.

In addition to posters that already pointed out Star Wars, there is a Matterhorn movie from Disney called Third Man on the Mountain 1959 that inspired Walt to create the Matterhorn attraction. It was on TMC in the last year or so. It is a little slow but DD12 enjoyed it with me!

http://www.waltdisney.com/blog/artifactual-mighty-matterhorn

Fun facts!

 

[Westcoastwild]

In addition to posters that already pointed out Star Wars, there is a Matterhorn movie from Disney called Third Man on the Mountain 1959 that inspired Walt to create the Matterhorn attraction. It was on TMC in the last year or so. It is a little slow but DD12 enjoyed it with me!

http://www.waltdisney.com/blog/artifactual-mighty-matterhorn

Fun facts!

That is a fun fact! Thanks! That might be the only old Disney movie my family doesn't own- always assumed it was just based off the original Matterhorn.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Senior citizen couple, and we often travel with adult friends. This 4th of July trip (9 nights) we have booked the Crystal Palace area viewing of HEA, because usually we see the fireworks from TTOTW lounge which is available to DVC members, but the castle projections aren't viewable from there. We've booked a pontoon boat for the 3rd of July MK fireworks viewing. We've filled the boat with friends and "Disboard friends" we haven't yet met in person. Another new thing is eating at the Boathouse, and we are not sure we'll take the boat ride, but we probably will. Finally, 3 of us will be doing "Painting with a View" a $50 pp experience offering snacks, 1 glass of wine and a chance to paint some MK scene. This is offered to DVC members on Thursdays.

When we were raising our sons in the 1980's, we did special things with them, like HoopDeeDoo and Marshmallow Marsh. With our young grandchildren we did character meals and dessert parties. Now we are focusing on things we like to do, and Disney is giving us choices!

 

[marcyleecorgan]

I agree with all that has been said re: larger families vs. smaller families. We've talked over and over and over about "is it worth it?"

Also that Disney is a business and as Family Planner, it's unfortunately the job to keep track of all the minor changes in policies that Disney makes. Yes, these up-sells do impact people's planning and vacations. However I don't think one can always expect years of the same tradition at Disney, not with tens of thousands of people streaming through the gates each and every day.... you just have to be very nimble about your research! Thank goodness for this board!

When I started researching Disney, so many changes had already occurred to the point where a large number of the websites and blogs I was reading, were out-of-date. I would find the publication date and be like, I can't use this information from 2005, it won't help me at all! There are irritatingly SO MANY resources that are out-of-date floating around on the Internet. Like, articles about WDW FP strategies that still recommended that "the runner" be the fastest person in your party to get the to the paper FP kiosk at Rope Drop. I'm reading that going, "what huh? Hello Magic Band! When has this blogger last BEEN to WDW?"

The stock value screenshot someone posted is pretty telling - this is NOT a bad thing for Disney. And it likely will NOT change anytime soon.

But it does cause some trade-off, yes! More fireworks parties mean more "hidden gems" that families have hunted out and made their tradition, those are being forcibly ended by sheer logistics.
More sales of EMM and VIP tours mean that a large percentage of attendees want MORE FP and they are willing to pay that, especially if "time is money". YMMV...

I showed my DH the EMM prices and he was like, "so we get breakfast with this? BUY IT." Despite constant app-stalking, Last Trip we did not manage two things on our Top 5 list - Peter Pan's Flight and 7DMT - which happen to be 2/3 of the attractions on the current EMM ticket!

with any character breakfast anywhere costing that price, OR costing us Meal Credits... this makes sense to him to spend approx $275-300 extra on our family to :
1) eat while keeping our Meal Credits AND eat at a restaurant we haven't yet, AND
2) get FP+ for at least 2 rides we struggled to get last time (and therefore have never ridden before) AND
3) be in the park and through security before the massive crush of daily guests starts to flood in... (of course you're never alone anymore, but starting out your morning practically licking sunscreen off other people's shoulders as you're jammed in so tight... NOT a vacation)

I think the way he sees it is that we will ride each ride enough times that we are "done" with it for awhile. And then those are 3 rides we don't even have to make time for, or consider, for the rest of the trip. Every time I saw the stand-by lines for PP or 7DMT, they were like 90-120 minutes (and I realize that PP has the queue details that you WANT to stand in the standby line). Even with checking the app near-constantly as we were walking around, there was no way we were getting in a line for 2 hours!

Spending that extra money creates a convenience for us - no longer will we spend hours on the app, draining batteries we have to spend time re-charging, no longer will we stand in some insane line, no longer will we need to invest any further time in getting on those 3 rides... but I totally get the knee-jerk reaction of "WUT WUT WUT WUT? You already have my wallet, Disney, now you're taking limbs, too?"

It's just... how long of a line does YOUR family want to stand in, during team competition time, with South American tour groups milling and cutting lines every which way, in dripping flesh-melting heat when you have to use the restroom, still trying to finish the last of your Dole Whip hastily dumped in a travel cup, and you're 30 minutes into your 90-minute standby line? And one of your children just announced they've filled a diaper, another one is hungry, and another one has just decided right now, that Winnie-the-Pooh is evil incarnate and nothing will stop said child from crawling up the WALLS to get out of there...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The idea of an egalitarian society where everyone has access to everything equally is nice, but not practical.

Indeed! I think it's called Communism... not awesome in practice.

While I hate the idea of things costing more, part of me thinks it doesn't cost enough. I mean, have you seen the crowd levels lately?

DH is an economist and he says this all the time!

A 'tipping point' as it relates to a park experience, not one as it relates to the company's bottom line.

Gotcha'. But again... if that was truly a "tipping point" for enough people, it WOULD impact the bottom line.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The stock value screenshot someone posted is pretty telling - this is NOT a bad thing for Disney. And it likely will NOT change anytime soon.

But it does cause some trade-off, yes!

I'm the PP who posted that and I agree on all points including there being tradeoffs for some individuals and families. I think that's just the nature of business... of life!

 

[wonderstruck88]

My bad. I meant Space Mountain.

But then in the case of star tours, the OP's argument also doesn't work because Star Wars has been part of the Disney parks since the '80s. Not a new focus.

I agree with your point about circumstances changing things. As a solo traveler I wouldn't pay for stuff like that but if I'm with family, it's the only way it'll work out.

I'm so glad you clarified! I was really confused.

 

[NuJoy]

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[Westcoastwild]

I'm so glad you clarified! I was really confused.

Lol. I know. I confused myself! It's not an excuse, but I'd been up for 18 hours straight at that point.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I am of the opinion that if Disney ever does reach a tipping point, it will have nothing to do with offering one more party; but rather an intolerance to a declining customer service trend. I mean, I personally have never come home irate and fist-waving claiming that if Disney offers just one more special event, I'm never going back.

I agree wrt these extras not being a tipping point issue. I must say that this is not our experience over the past 12-ish years.

 

[StageTek]

$80 for a once in a lifetime dessert party for a single traveler is no big deal. $400 for the average family of 5 for the same party borders on being irresponsible.

How does spending $400 for this perk boarder on being irresponsible?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

How does spending $400 for this perk boarder on being irresponsible?

I guess I was wondering that as well... if one can easily afford the $400, not sure how that is in any way irresponsible...

 

[NuJoy]

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[MickeyMinnieMom]

Not my experience, either. I'm saying I predict that would be what would make guest angry enough to not return in large numbers.

Agree 150%!