Gratuity to be removed from DDP!!

[wilde_oscar]

If the food isn't good, it should be sent back, everywhere, always...even on DDP, or back at home at a restaurant.
If service is poor, tip should reflect that.
There is something to be said for a server EARNING their tip.
Tips on cruise ships have gone the "automated" route...charged to your accunt unless you choose to remove it. Some have found apathy w/ regards to service due to it. I imagine some have found the same w/ DDP. I'm sure a few WDW servers have fallen into the "well, I get the 18% no matter how hard I work...." mantra.
While we do NOT like the extra expense, it should help improve service!

a round of applause... gather round and listen... this is the voice of truth and reason

DDPers of "the world" unite and have the tip removed for poor service.

 

[jodifla]

Yippee! I think this 20 percent price hike for the DDP will drive many more people away from it.


Death to the DDP!

 

[wilde_oscar]

I have to agree here. We went in March and it was our first time on the DDP. I found that the meals that we spent OOP had much better service then the ones on DDP. I felt, and this is mine and DH's personal opinion, that a lot (not all) of the wait staff didn't really care if they gave even poor service, they were going to get their money anyway.
That being said, I would hate to see the wait staff get stiffed by people who are trying to save a few bucks or are not knowledgeable of the change. I hope that CRO will remind people of the change when they make the ADR's.

as if there are doubts that the servers will forget to remind you that tip is not included? At some point apathy has to set in on the set 18% tip system... we had no doubt on our last trip that some fo the servers gave poor service because they knew we are DDP... this year we made TS resies that are not linked to our room package reservation, and further I will not be telling the servers that we are DDP till the end of the meal... I bet we get much better service right up to the point that they find out we are DDP.

 

[erikthewise]

I can imagine a few ways.

Disney probably recognizes that a very large number of guests value the Dining Plan (as it is currently offered) very highly. So effectively, Disney is underselling the value of the plan. That's just like flushing money down the drain. By effectively increasing the price, fewer guests may purchase the plan, but there will be a corresponding increase in revenue per customer. The trick is to find that sweet-spot, the perfect balance between price and patronage that yields the best results for the enterprise. If you give credence to any of the complaints about how crowded the restaurants are, or how hard it is to land the reservations you want, then you know that there is a chance that Disney would be better off with fewer patrons each paying more money, rather than with more patrons each paying less money.

Yes I think you're right on the money there. I just wasn't sure if this is actually going to work out to their benefit. But then, they've spent a lot more time thinking about it than I have.

There is also the potential negative cost of ticking off both the servers and the guests. I agree with your second point that there would be potential benefits from fewer people being on the dining plan. The question is to what extent will those no longer using the plan take their dining and lodging dollars elsewhere.

I suspect that with both guests and servers things will quickly settle down to a new equilibrium. It was only a short time ago when the only "dining plans" were the Silver/Gold/Platinum plans which few people used or could afford. Even the predicted modification of the dining plan will still leave guests with a much better choice than those.

Up to this point the DDP has been used as a year-round promotional tool. I think they are saying from now on it has to largely pay for itself, except perhaps during special promotions e.g. Aug-Sept free dining.

 

[Muushka]

Tip not included? Buh Bye DDP

 

[Nancyg56]

The automatic 18% removes the incentive for good service. At this point enough epople have complained that DDP = bad service and yet they still get the tip. Removing the tip puts back the incentive for good service. Heck the first time we used DDP I didn't realize tip was included so that server got double tipped... further there were times we got such bad service I would not have tipped at all, and yet they got their 18%.

Unlike most, I am happy that the tip is being yanked, make the servers work for the money, instead of treating DDPers as second rate dinners.

DDPers of "the world" unite, have the tip removed for poor service.

I am not in agreement with this statement. I understand that there may be servers who are apathetic about their level of service because the tip is included, but I have been very happy with the level of service that I received on three separate trips. I always let the server know that we were using the plan. In any group there will be those who do not take pride in their work, they most likely will not be providing excellent service, tip included or not. I think that the real pros know that there are a lot who reward excel;lent service with additional gratuities. My family is among that group.

I'm sorry that you experienced poor service, but if you read through the different threads regarding service level most people who responded were satisfied.

 

[perdidochas]

Starting in January 2008, Disney is planning on removing the gratuity from the dining plan. This means that on top of what you are going to be paying for the plan, you are going to have to come up with the gratuity to tip your servers as well. Right now a family of four eating in a table service restaurant usually has a gratuity of around $20-$30 that is included. If this goes through, that extra expense will now be the guests responsibilty. So add an extra $200-$250 when you figure out the price of the plan. Needless to say, this is not going over well with the servers, and I assume it won't go over well with the guests either.

Where did you hear this?

It makes no sense at all to me. I think Disney would raise prices first.

 

[illiniowl]

I can imagine a few ways.

Disney probably recognizes that a very large number of guests value the Dining Plan (as it is currently offered) very highly. So effectively, Disney is underselling the value of the plan. That's just like flushing money down the drain. By effectively increasing the price, fewer guests may purchase the plan, but there will be a corresponding increase in revenue per customer. The trick is to find that sweet-spot, the perfect balance between price and patronage that yields the best results for the enterprise. If you give credence to any of the complaints about how crowded the restaurants are, or how hard it is to land the reservations you want, then you know that there is a chance that Disney would be better off with fewer patrons each paying more money, rather than with more patrons each paying less money.

True, although I believe Disney always knew it would be flushing some money down the drain with the DDP, i.e. as a loss leader to increase on-site hotel occupancy (and consequently theme park attendance, merchandise sales, etc.). It just amazes me that apparently they miscalculated the cost of this loss leader so badly that they feel it necessary to increase the effective price by as much as 20% (or more, depending on how one uses the DDP) in one fell swoop. What business raises its prices by 20-25% all at once? That is not fine-tuning to find the sweet spot; that's a radical change.

 

[Nancyg56]

There is also the potential negative cost of ticking off both the servers and the guests. I agree with your second point that there would be potential benefits from fewer people being on the dining plan. The question is to what extent will those no longer using the plan take their dining and lodging dollars elsewhere.

I suspect that with both guests and servers things will quickly settle down to a new equilibrium. It was only a short time ago when the only "dining plans" were the Silver/Gold/Platinum plans which few people used or could afford. Even the predicted modification of the dining plan will still leave guests with a much better choice than those.

I think that time will tell how effective a modified plan will be. In my family my DH would prefer not to get the plan, I like it. He would stay off site, i like to be on the property. He would have gone to attractions in the Orlando area, I was opposed to paying Disney prices to visit another attraction. For us, it all started with the DDP, and snowballed from that point. If the plan is not as attractive to me, it will be less of a decision to stay elsewhere, and have more meals off site.

I agree that a modified plan me be better than no plan, but I think that for repeat guests, it may not be the incentive to keep most of the budget in Disney. They have done that and don't mind eating off site.

Disney seems to have attempted to create an all inclusive atmosphere by providing Magic Express and the DDP both linked to a Disney resort stay, and it seems that they have done a very good job of attracting a number of guests who are all staying on their property. If the plan loses it's shine there will be a negative impact to guests and CM's alike. If people still feel that it is a good value, and remember to reward their servers it may be a win-win for Disney.

 

[Lewisc]

Removing the gratuity will result in at least some servers getting stiffed. Some of the better servers may leave. Service may suffer. The posters have said Disney reserves the right to resume the 18% gratuity if DDP bookings decline as a result. You're not going to see that many people being "driven" away but some of the better servers move on to non-Disney restaurants before Disney fine tunes the plan.

I think the best "foodies" that don't like the DDP can hope for is one or two other restaurants joining V&A in not participating in the plan.

Yippee! I think this 20 percent price hike for the DDP will drive many more people away from it.


Death to the DDP!

 

[wilde_oscar]

I am not in agreement with this statement. I understand that there may be servers who are apathetic about their level of service because the tip is included, but I have been very happy with the level of service that I received on three separate trips. I always let the server know that we were using the plan. In any group there will be those who do not take pride in their work, they most likely will not be providing excellent service, tip included or not. I think that the real pros know that there are a lot who reward excel;lent service with additional gratuities. My family is among that group.

I'm sorry that you experienced poor service, but if you read through the different threads regarding service level most people who responded were satisfied.

UG, this is the kind of response that just makes me sad. A tip is for good service, there is no expectation of a tip... reading these posts I think a lot of people do not live in the real world. If I get good service, there is a tip. If I get excellent service I give a better tip. If I get lousy service I leave no tip. I am not going to subsidize bad service, not once, not ever. I work hard for my money; the server should be working hard for their money as well.

I am not saying that I got bad service every where we ate, out 16 table service meals we had 2 where service was shoddy. That would be a score of about 88% which is a high B for a grade. However, those two times we received bad service, if I had been anywhere else, paying OOP, the server would have gotten no tip. This years trip, I will not wait 45 for my bill at Boma no matter how tired I am, I’ll get up and find that server and get my key back when I am ready to leave, not wonder if she went to the gift shop.

Also those that think that having to pay the tip will not change the level of service are foolish... further those that think that having to pay the tip mean they will loose money on DDP are not doing the math correctly. And last but not least, there is no larger discount for a WDW package then the free DDP with or without tip included.

DDP as a value proposition continues to be on a case by case basis, on big eater vs lite eater. When I am on vacation, my bloated carcass is gonna scarf down an appetizer and a desert, or at least sample something I would not other wise order.

 

[ktturner]

We use the DDP to experience meals we normally wouldn't be able to afford. Without it we'd probably eat less TS, and more CS, even bringing more with us. The cabins with kitchens look better without it. The out of pocket expense for my family of 4 going to all these nice TS meals would be far too great on top of what we are already paying. If service is exceptional, I don't mind leaving a little extra, but this would be monumental. I've always been a huge fan of the program, but will not be using it again if this goes through.

Just curious, this isn't only for free dining is it? Sometimes I see they put catches on the free dining times.

 

[KKB]

as if there are doubts that the servers will forget to remind you that tip is not included? At some point apathy has to set in on the set 18% tip system... we had no doubt on our last trip that some fo the servers gave poor service because they knew we are DDP... this year we made TS resies that are not linked to our room package reservation, and further I will not be telling the servers that we are DDP till the end of the meal... I bet we get much better service right up to the point that they find out we are DDP.

I am VERY curious if anyone else has done this....
and if there will be any issues with it!
(GREAT idea BTW if it is OK!)

 

[KKB]

The posters have said Disney reserves the right to resume the 18% gratuity if DDP bookings decline as a result.

I didn't notice any comments saying such....

AH, the rumor mill.....

Could it have been a troll originally? We seem to be doing a fine job of shaking this one up all by ourselves.......

 

[TheDisneyClan]

UG, this is the kind of response that just makes me sad. A tip is for good service, there is no expectation of a tip... reading these posts I think a lot of people do not live in the real world. If I get good service, there is a tip. If I get excellent service I give a better tip. If I get lousy service I leave no tip. I am not going to subsidize bad service, not once, not ever. I work hard for my money; the server should be working hard for their money as well.

I am not saying that I got bad service every where we ate, out 16 table service meals we had 2 where service was shoddy. That would be a score of about 88% which is a high B for a grade. However, those two times we received bad service, if I had been anywhere else, paying OOP, the server would have gotten no tip. This years trip, I will not wait 45 for my bill at Boma no matter how tired I am, I’ll get up and find that server and get my key back when I am ready to leave, not wonder if she went to the gift shop.

.

I completely agree.

If this is in fact true, I see it as a positive change. ADR's will much easier to get for starters.

If Disney does make this change, we will continue to use the Dining Plan and honestly, while there will be some out of pocket increase, I am not convinced, at least for us, that it will be as signifigant as some are saying.

Some service is just so bad that a tip cannot be justified. Some service has been so wonderful that we leave additional on top of the 18% that Disney gives the servers. For our family, this would balance out and make our increase cost only marginal.

Moreover, many our meals are character meals that include buffets. I have never believed that a server is AUTOMATICALLY entitled to 18% for simply taking your drink order and clearing your plates. While there will be times, even in this setting, that an exceptional server will earn such a tip, in most cases for these types of meals there is just no reason to leave 18%.

The downside of course is for the servers, They have come to expect 18% from each and every table and they of course will longer be getting this.

On the positive side, there will be less folks on the Dining Plan, thus making ADR's much easier to get. For our family this would be a positive and welcome change and we would absolutley continue to use the Dining Plan.

 

[paulh]

at first i was worried about the OP.Then read into it
It sounds as it come from a union rep,sounds like not a rep regarding waiters as the ddp works well for there members
could it be a rep form some outhe runion whose members ar concerned that the wait staf are getting better tips and they are kicking up a fuss
We in the uk can book the DDP for next year (we book 12 months in advance)and the tip is included as it states this in the littiriture
So untill disney officaly put somthing out i dout it`s going to happen
So happy eatting on the DDP
Paulh

 

[ktturner]

Many posters point out the OOP is only a little more. . .I however, disagree. If my choices are to spend all of the extra $$ I'll be bringing to properly tip CMs or not go dining plan, that would be my option. If I were paying for my food without the DDP, I wouldn't even go to many of the TS experiences, and I sure wouldn't order as expensive food items. Instead, I'd eat less, at less cool places, and tip a lot less. I think it somewhat depends on your finicial situation. Also, I would prefer it be just a raise in price, at least then it is something we can count on in advance, budget for and pay for not out of the spending money for the trip. . .

 

[bigbabyblues]

My guess is that there will be some unhappy servers out there. Especially the ones who don't see the need to provide good service since they know the 18% is a guarantee for DDP tables. Hopefully, the good servers will continue to get a good tip.

 

[hansel1]

2 thoughts on the subject:

This could just be union banter to show the members that it is working for them when they don't remove gratuities from the DDP.

or

If this is true, we should tip based on the amount of the plan for the day and not the table service amount. ex. 2 adults at roughly $40 each equals an 18% gratuity on $80. This comes to around $14 dollars in tips. An amount we usually leave over what we already paid for DDP.

Tips are usually based on the amount of product the server pushes, but since the plan itself insists on a set amount of food, the server is no longer having to push product. As it is, any product not on the DDP has a gratuity added to it already.

(if you have a family of four your tip would be slightly higher based on the amount you pay for the daily DDP)

 

[GurGie]

We are fairly new to staying on-site (just the last couple of years.) We have been AP holders for years and it was the DDP that drew us to staying on property. In the past we rented a 2 or 3 bedroom condo instead. Also in the past we almost never ate at TS restaurants and our food budget was much less than even the cost of the dining plan.
So for families like ours, the marketing objectives (at least as I assume them to be) behind the DDP were effective. If they increase the cost of the DDP by not including the gratuity, it tips the balance in favor of staying off-site. Another unintended consequence is that the DDP/staying on property was kind of keeping us at WDW. The last two trips to Orlando we have considered doing a couple of days at Universal, but what with staying on-site and having the food paid for/ADRs made, it just seemed like too much of a hassle to bother with trying to go anywhere. If we are already off-site it will be no big deal to branch out. This might turn out to be rather liberating