Gratuities and Tipping !

[pigletto]

"If the average server has 3 tables that is $63.90 an hour!!! That seems like an awful lot of money to me."

That is an awful lot of money. And not even remotely close to what I was making working in Niagara Falls. Which I can only compare to Disney.. we had 2 hour waits for tables at Denny's!! The atmosphere was pure insanity.. and can not be compared to your average dining experience in a non tourist atmosphere.
An example...
We did not have a service charge for large parties. One evening at 10:40 p.m. a group of boyscouts and their leaders came in. Of course I was asked to stay. I was there 2 hours past my shift. Up until then it had been a quiet night. There were over 50 of them and their total bill was over 800 dollars.
Because they were from a country that does not have a tipping system for servers they did not leave a tip.
On 800 dollars I got nothing. However.. I was still expected to tip out my managers and cooks and support staff and owners.
Because it was high season.. I had to tip out 15% of total sales. Which because no tip was left was over 90 dollars.
It happened much much more than you would think.
Again .. I did not have the same experience at the wineries and golf courses I worked at.
But in a high volume, high price tourist destination it is common.

 

[i3utterfli82]

I am thinking that possibly the OP might have been thinking along these lines.....(correct me if I'm wrong!!!)

Consider the time you spend at a TS meal....about 1.5 hours. So if your meal, as stated in the OP, costs $160 your tip should be $32. That breaks down to about $21.30 an hour. If the average server has 3 tables that is $63.90 an hour!!! That seems like an awful lot of money to me.

I work as a nurse and bring my patients their food, drinks, answer their light.....plus take care of all of the medical reasons that require them to be in a hospital in the first place, and don't make near that an hour.

Seems to me that if a tip was even 10%, so $15 that would result in a hourly wage of $10....from just ONE table, that would be plenty sufficent!!!

Just a few thoughts!! This is not to say that I tip this way, I am just discussing the topic as asked by the OP.

You guys make me laugh. Not many servers are making even close to $60 an hour. I think most servers average $100 a shift and that is usually close to 7-8 hours work. Servers have to come in usually an hour or so before shifts and stay sometimes many hours after. If servers were making this much money everyone would be doing it. Bartenders though often make much more.

 

[stellablue]

I am thinking that possibly the OP might have been thinking along these lines.....(correct me if I'm wrong!!!)

Consider the time you spend at a TS meal....about 1.5 hours. So if your meal, as stated in the OP, costs $160 your tip should be $32. That breaks down to about $21.30 an hour. If the average server has 3 tables that is $63.90 an hour!!! That seems like an awful lot of money to me.

I work as a nurse and bring my patients their food, drinks, answer their light.....plus take care of all of the medical reasons that require them to be in a hospital in the first place, and don't make near that an hour.

Seems to me that if a tip was even 10%, so $15 that would result in a hourly wage of $10....from just ONE table, that would be plenty sufficent!!!
Just a few thoughts!! This is not to say that I tip this way, I am just discussing the topic as asked by the OP.

Right, but what many people don't realize is that not all of that money goes to the server. No server is going to get $63.90/hour. At many restaurants, the server splits that tip amongst several other workers who were involved with that table-the busser, the bartender, backserver, sometimes the hostess. A certain percentage goes to each of these workers before the server gets for himself.

The other thing many people don't realize is when a customer stiffs a server, the server is still obligated to tip out a certain percentage to these workers.
If the server gets stiffed, than the tip out has to come out of the server's pocket. Not sure anyone can justify not paying a tip because you can't afford to at the expense of having your server inevitably pay it for you.

My DBF is a server in an upscale restaurant in downtown Boston. He works 8-9 hour shifts and averages about $15-$20/hour (please don't multiply the 420 x 9 because he DOES NOT come home with even close to that amount!!).
The people who tend to jip him the most are foreigners who don;t understand the tipping system. They will run him back and forth with umteen alcoholic drinks, run up an $800 check and leave $35. DBF really liked the little cards that Disney put in their checks reminding people what custom tipping is in the US. He believes that these foreign guests of his would certainly have tipped properly had they known...but then again, it baffles me that a businessman would travel to another country and not educate himself on the customs....

 

[TiggerDad3]

I am thinking that possibly the OP might have been thinking along these lines.....(correct me if I'm wrong!!!)

Consider the time you spend at a TS meal....about 1.5 hours. So if your meal, as stated in the OP, costs $160 your tip should be $32. That breaks down to about $21.30 an hour. If the average server has 3 tables that is $63.90 an hour!!! That seems like an awful lot of money to me.

I work as a nurse and bring my patients their food, drinks, answer their light.....plus take care of all of the medical reasons that require them to be in a hospital in the first place, and don't make near that an hour.

Seems to me that if a tip was even 10%, so $15 that would result in a hourly wage of $10....from just ONE table, that would be plenty sufficent!!!

Just a few thoughts!! This is not to say that I tip this way, I am just discussing the topic as asked by the OP.

That is definately a large part of what I was getting at. Anyone who does the math knows that if everyone tipped the 18 - 20%, then the servers at WDW would definately be making that. And if in fact they are not making that then I am just guessing that I am not alone in this oppinion. If any server is making anywhere near even $30/hour in tips I see no room for complaints. I would even go further to say that if a server is making that much and is complaining, that sounds kind of selfish to me.

Just because some choose to support gratuity in what one may be able to call a conformist matter, and try to make it reality that everyone does and should have to....

I am just one of the people who choose not to support that.

That is my choice and no matter how many others don't like it, that will still remain my choice.

 

[pigletto]

That is definately a large part of what I was getting at. Anyone who does the math knows that if everyone tipped the 18 - 20%, then the servers at WDW would definately be making that. And if in fact they are not making that then I am just guessing that I am not alone in this oppinion. If any server is making anywhere near even $30/hour in tips I see no room for complaints. I would even go further to say that if a server is making that much and is complaining, that sounds kind of selfish to me.

Just because some choose to support gratuity in what one may be able to call a conformist matter, and try to make it reality that everyone does and should have to....

I am just one of the people who choose not to support that.

That is my choice and no matter how many others don't like it, that will still remain my choice.

Well despite repeated attempts to illustrate to you that this is not the case you have come to the conclusion that you will not "support" the conformity. Seems you have made your decision.
I can come up with example after example of my reality from actually working in a high volume tourist environment.. but it's not what you came here looking for.
If you really had a problem with this tipping system you would be much better served to take that frustration out on the restaurant or organization itself.
However .. if you persist in making an ineffective "statement" then go ahead and take it out on the servers.
Way to stick it to the man!

 

[stellablue]

That is definately a large part of what I was getting at. Anyone who does the math knows that if everyone tipped the 18 - 20%, then the servers at WDW would definately be making that. And if in fact they are not making that then I am just guessing that I am not alone in this oppinion. If any server is making anywhere near even $30/hour in tips I see no room for complaints. I would even go further to say that if a server is making that much and is complaining, that sounds kind of selfish to me.

Just because some choose to support gratuity in what one may be able to call a conformist matter, and try to make it reality that everyone does and should have to....

I am just one of the people who choose not to support that.

That is my choice and no matter how many others don't like it, that will still remain my choice.

Maybe my above post will educate you on the actual hourly wage of a server.
Not sure it's the server I would call selfish in this situation...

Your comment is EXACTLY why I think it should be an automatic service charge-because common customers are not responsible enough or trained to decide the wage of another individual.

I just hope, for your sake, that you don't stiff servers in repeat restaurants. Have you ever seen the movie Waiting? If not, I strongly encourage you to do so!

 

[Pumbaa_]

Just because some choose to support gratuity in what one may be able to call a conformist matter, and try to make it reality that everyone does and should have to....

I am just one of the people who choose not to support that.

That is my choice and no matter how many others don't like it, that will still remain my choice.

I don't know what you mean by that

Here's my thoughts.

When I dine out, at Disney or at home, I do not sit and determine how many tables my server has or what he/she is bringing home tonight. Don't care. I care about my experience. If I have a good-great experience, my tip will reflect 15-20%.

I have NO way of knowing how many hours, how many tables, how much has my server already gotten, how much they have to tip out to other positions - don't care. I am concerned with my dinner and my experience and tip accordingly.

If people do not like the tipping system at TS locations, the solution is very simple. Don't eat there. Eat elsewhere. Otherwise, tipping is the custom in this country. Like it, don't like it, doesn't matter. To not tip for good service is taking money out of a servers pocket for your meal.

 

[Quiksilvr]

That is definately a large part of what I was getting at. Anyone who does the math knows that if everyone tipped the 18 - 20%, then the servers at WDW would definately be making that. And if in fact they are not making that then I am just guessing that I am not alone in this oppinion. If any server is making anywhere near even $30/hour in tips I see no room for complaints. I would even go further to say that if a server is making that much and is complaining, that sounds kind of selfish to me.

Just because some choose to support gratuity in what one may be able to call a conformist matter, and try to make it reality that everyone does and should have to....

I am just one of the people who choose not to support that.

That is my choice and no matter how many others don't like it, that will still remain my choice.

Personally I think you're making an undeserved generalization about what a server may or may not be making, but it's your right to have that opinion. I also find it interesting that you seem to think that it's somehow wrong for a server to make that much money (if, indeed, the servers actually do make that much money). If a server can bring that much home, then so be it. I'm sure the server worked hard for the money. I'm sure you work hard for yours... and I don't think you'd appreciate it if someone on a message board started insinuating that you didn't deserve it.

 

[apostolic4life]

I just hope, for your sake, that you don't stiff servers in repeat restaurants. Have you ever seen the movie Waiting? If not, I strongly encourage you to do so!

OK stellablue, I also think paying fair wages is better, but most of the customers won't be willing to pay the much higher menu prices to cover cost. I do still think service could suffer if tips are automatic which is different from the way you see it. That said, I have been with you in a lot of what you are saying, but when people start references about doing things to a customer's food I get a little aggravated. This is never an acceptable option for a reputable server or reputable restaurant. I know you were saying it in jest, but it still chaps my hide because it is something that can cause a restaurant to be taken to court and have the server arrested. Some places actually consider acts of this nature to be felonious assault and people have done jail time for it. This is also just a very bad way to treat another human being. Two wrongs don't make a right!

 

[crimsontide27]

Allow me to speak to you all as a previous restaurant manager and I will hopefully enlighten you as to why tips are the proper way to go as opposed to fixed wages.

First and foremost, all restaurants are varied. Its very hard to lump them all together as many have different set policies and pricing that affects tipping and their percentages. I was a manager of a 100 table restaurant with the average guest spending around $14 on average per person.

I have seen people ask why servers are not paid a higher fixed rate and here are a few reasons on why.

1) Labor costs - A restaurant on average employs more servers than any other position. As a general rule, restaurants staff 1 server per every 3 table station....so for my store I usually had 33 servers on staff at any given time based on projections.

This means that there are more servers at the restaurant at any given time than any other employee. The servers outnumber the bartenders, hosts, bussers, and cooks. Most servers are what we call part time workers. In general, they try not to work any servers 40 hours a week because then federal and state law require that employer to offer benefits. If restaurants were required to provide benefits for all the servers it employes, there would be no other alternative than to jack up the prices of all their menu items.

2) TIPS ( To insure proper service ) Many, many people complain about the level of service they get at Disney. Want to know why the servers in general sucked? It was because they got paid a fixed rate for people on the DDP. Thats right, 18% was already included in your cost of the dining plan and as such I would know preciscely how much money I was going to get if you sat in my section. No matter what level of service you were provided, you had already pre paid your server.

This has now changed as the 18% is still included in your DDP, but the server now only gets 3% and Disney gets the extra 15%. It was voted in the last union contract that went in effect recently. Now you will see your level of service increase drastically. Why? Because now your server has to work for his money instead of it automatically being given to them.

See the difference now? Servers made / make excellant money at Disney depending on where they work, but because they knew it was automatic, why should they care? Chances are you wouldnt be back for at least another year, so why should they care?

Keep in mind that $160 averages for a family of 4 to go to dinner are rare. Maybe not at Disney, but for the most part anywhere else, the average is around $60.

Servers are not making anywhere remotely close to $60 an hour as suggested. At Disney most servers are walking with around $800-$1000 in total sales at the nicer establishments. So projecting that at a very generous 18% grat, they usually recieve about $140-$180 a night in tips. This is good of course, but thats before they tip out the bar, bussers, food runners, hostess...etc..etc. Standard tip out is around %3-%5 of your total sales. So now you tip out anywhere between $30 and $50 to all the other respective positions. Now your server is walking out with about $120 a night. This is a far cry from $60 an hour you see.


As a restaurant manager, I realized that the servers are actually one of the most critical employees that the restaurant has. Why? Because your impression of my restaurant was based on the level of service you recieved.

If i paid my servers a fixed wage, they would have no incentive to go above and beyond to make sure your experience was as great as possible. Sure, I could just fire them and get more...but it would be a never ending cycle.

Since servers are working for tips, it insures me as a manager that they are trying to give you the best service possible and will do anything to please you. This is what keeps you coming back to my restaurant.

I am quite happy with the way things are now. As a business, it cuts labor costs tremendously, increases the productivity of my waitstaff, and insures that you as a guest recieves the best possible service that my waitstaff can give you. Its a win - win situation for everyone.


My servers work as hard as possible, I keep food costs as low as possible while still trying to turn a profit, and you as my guest get the best quality of service that we can provide in order to keep you coming back.

 

[apostolic4life]

I don't know what you mean by that

Here's my thoughts.

When I dine out, at Disney or at home, I do not sit and determine how many tables my server has or what he/she is bringing home tonight. Don't care. I care about my experience. If I have a good-great experience, my tip will reflect 15-20%.

I have NO way of knowing how many hours, how many tables, how much has my server already gotten, how much they have to tip out to other positions - don't care. I am concerned with my dinner and my experience and tip accordingly.

If people do not like the tipping system at TS locations, the solution is very simple. Don't eat there. Eat elsewhere. Otherwise, tipping is the custom in this country. Like it, don't like it, doesn't matter. To not tip for good service is taking money out of a servers pocket for your meal.

I agree......the number of tables/hours/guests should not factor into your calculations when tipping. The tip should be based on the server/guest relationship which is formed over the course of the meal. I think of it as a relationship because the server needs to care about their guest and the needs of that guest until they leave the restaurant; the guest should reciprocate by leaving an appropriate tip to show appreciation for the care given while "visiting" with the server. I know, it sounds a little sappy, but if we treated each other with dignity and respect, often these issues would sort themselves out and these discussions would be moot.

 

[apostolic4life]

Allow me to speak to you all as a previous restaurant manager and I will hopefully enlighten you as to why tips are the proper way to go as opposed to fixed wages.

First and foremost, all restaurants are varied. Its very hard to lump them all together as many have different set policies and pricing that affects tipping and their percentages. I was a manager of a 100 table restaurant with the average guest spending around $14 on average per person.

I have seen people ask why servers are not paid a higher fixed rate and here are a few reasons on why.

1) Labor costs - A restaurant on average employs more servers than any other position. As a general rule, restaurants staff 1 server per every 3 table station....so for my store I usually had 33 servers on staff at any given time based on projections.

This means that there are more servers at the restaurant at any given time than any other employee. The servers outnumber the bartenders, hosts, bussers, and cooks. Most servers are what we call part time workers. In general, they try not to work any servers 40 hours a week because then federal and state law require that employer to offer benefits. If restaurants were required to provide benefits for all the servers it employes, there would be no other alternative than to jack up the prices of all their menu items.

2) TIPS ( To insure proper service ) Many, many people complain about the level of service they get at Disney. Want to know why the servers in general sucked? It was because they got paid a fixed rate for people on the DDP. Thats right, 18% was already included in your cost of the dining plan and as such I would know preciscely how much money I was going to get if you sat in my section. No matter what level of service you were provided, you had already pre paid your server.

This has now changed as the 18% is still included in your DDP, but the server now only gets 3% and Disney gets the extra 15%. It was voted in the last union contract that went in effect recently. Now you will see your level of service increase drastically. Why? Because now your server has to work for his money instead of it automatically being given to them.

See the difference now? Servers made / make excellant money at Disney depending on where they work, but because they knew it was automatic, why should they care? Chances are you wouldnt be back for at least another year, so why should they care?

Keep in mind that $160 averages for a family of 4 to go to dinner are rare. Maybe not at Disney, but for the most part anywhere else, the average is around $60.

Servers are not making anywhere remotely close to $60 an hour as suggested. At Disney most servers are walking with around $800-$1000 in total sales at the nicer establishments. So projecting that at a very generous 18% grat, they usually recieve about $140-$180 a night in tips. This is good of course, but thats before they tip out the bar, bussers, food runners, hostess...etc..etc. Standard tip out is around %3-%5 of your total sales. So now you tip out anywhere between $30 and $50 to all the other respective positions. Now your server is walking out with about $120 a night. This is a far cry from $60 an hour you see.


As a restaurant manager, I realized that the servers are actually one of the most critical employees that the restaurant has. Why? Because your impression of my restaurant was based on the level of service you recieved.

If i paid my servers a fixed wage, they would have no incentive to go above and beyond to make sure your experience was as great as possible. Sure, I could just fire them and get more...but it would be a never ending cycle.

Since servers are working for tips, it insures me as a manager that they are trying to give you the best service possible and will do anything to please you. This is what keeps you coming back to my restaurant.

I am quite happy with the way things are now. As a business, it cuts labor costs tremendously, increases the productivity of my waitstaff, and insures that you as a guest recieves the best possible service that my waitstaff can give you. Its a win - win situation for everyone.


My servers work as hard as possible, I keep food costs as low as possible while still trying to turn a profit, and you as my guest get the best quality of service that we can provide in order to keep you coming back.

Very well stated!!!! You have backed up much of what I have said in this thread........Thanks!

 

[KathyTX]

Since this thread has long veered from anything that is helpful in a Disney trip planning sense, the topic is closed.