GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[hertamaniac]

I respectfully disagree with this. in my talks with plenty of people that head to florida for the winter, the vast majority are deciding against it this year. again, not a scientifiic poll, but more than just my opinion.

I didn't say it would happen, but recognize it as a possibility if the numbers keep trending downward in Florida.

 

[hertamaniac]

I wouldn’t be entirely sure about snowbird season this year. My parents and their friends are largely undecided about going this year. And arent Canadians still denied entrance?

Oh, I'm not sure hence the word I chose carefully....possible.

 

[jlwhitney]

This points back to executing the mandate rather than merely showcasing it. Start slapping fines on the businesses that don't comply followed closely by closures and I'm guessing there would be a slow choke hold on violations (not just mask, but social distancing, etc.).

It's simple to me: your patrons don't comply.....you risk losing your business.

The county next to me flat out said with their mandate that they would not be enforcing since they need to their resources to deal with bigger issues, and left them on the honor system. Also had the clause that if they could social distance in a private business they didn't need them either. Overall nothing really has come from any of the businesses. No major outbreaks and such. The biggest outbreak was in the prisons a few after they required them to wear masks....

 

[mom2rtk]

I didn't say it would happen, but recognize it as a possibility if the numbers keep trending downward in Florida.

So if numbers go down, that's bad?

 

[kdonnel]

Without an enforcement team that carries out a/the mandate, there will be more Judge Deads stemming from non-compliant businesses.

Businesses will be handled by Judge Karens.

 

[hertamaniac]

The county next to me flat out said with their mandate that they would not be enforcing since they need to their resources to deal with bigger issues, and left them on the honor system. Also had the clause that if they could social distance in a private business they didn't need them either. Overall nothing really has come from any of the businesses. No major outbreaks and such. The biggest outbreak was in the prisons a few after they required them to wear masks....

I still would like someone to explain how South Florida stayed as bad as it did even for having the mandates so early on.

I think you just answered your own question, in bold, as to why some counties in Florida are more problematic than others.

 

[hertamaniac]

So if numbers go down, that's bad?

Nope...it becomes even more alluring for those in colder regions to migrate to Florida in winter. So it's not a binary good/bad position.

 

[amylevan]

Nope...it becomes even more alluring for those in colder regions to migrate to Florida in winter. So it's not a binary good/bad position.

Just to give you some references on what some of those Northerners are thinking, my parents and their friends largely don’t care what the numbers are in Florida and it has no bearing on whether they go or not. Their questions rely on what they’ll be able to do when they get there because they are campers and currently there are no activities being offered in the campground and disney doesn’t look all that appealing to them either. So essentially they can be stuck in their homes in cold weather but at least have separate rooms and can have their friends over or they can be stuck in their camper all winter with no place to spread out and no real place to entertain their friends.

 

[jlwhitney]

I think you just answered your own question, in bold, as to why some counties in Florida are more problematic than others.

but they aren’t all problematic either .

bottom line the biggest risk is happening in the homes and parties and such.

Going to Walmart where I’m never working 6ft if 1 person for 15 mins or more is not the issue

 

[Christine]

Regarding mask effectiveness/usage. I think it's just a complex issue. Regarding South Florida, all I kept hearing is that there is a culture there of big family gatherings, routine "house parties" etc. My zip code in Virginia is one of the state's hot spots and has remained so. We have a high Latino population that is very social, lives in multi-generational homes, and are essential workers so have remained working with the public the whole time. Every one of them that I personally know (and I would say there are about 15 of them) has had the virus. It's not that they don't wear masks in establishments, they do. But in their personal homelife they don't and they are living with others who are working high risk jobs in crowded situations.

My husband, a commercial electrician, has been working the whole time in a small room with 20 other electricians. They are required to wear a mask at all times. They have not had one outbreak, although one of the workers did get it from home and had the sense not to come into work. Just found out last week that another job site that his company runs (total of about 300 people from different contractors on site) has had a major outbreak. They are working in a office building and are only required to use masks when walking in "common areas." When they are in the work spaces doing their electrical work, they don't have to wear them nor do they have to wear them in the break room. 20 guys from my husband's company alone have become sick last week...don't know the numbers on the other trades working in the same space. Seems reckless to me not to have insisted on a 100% mask rule there, but it's up to each general contractor and some are believers and some aren't.

 

[hertamaniac]

Just to give you some references on what some of those Northerners are thinking, my parents and their friends largely don’t care what the numbers are in Florida and it has no bearing on whether they go or not. Their questions rely on what they’ll be able to do when they get there because they are campers and currently there are no activities being offered in the campground and disney doesn’t look all that appealing to them either. So essentially they can be stuck in their homes in cold weather but at least have separate rooms and can have their friends over or they can be stuck in their camper all winter with no place to spread out and no real place to entertain their friends.

And I'll give you a reference as a former Northerner with friends/family that are still there and monitoring the numbers in Florida and are positioned to travel to their winter homes. They see the theme parks are open and want to spend their winter in a warmer climate provided the numbers keep trending downward; they see plenty to do.

 

[hertamaniac]

but they aren’t all problematic either .

Of course, and that's the disparity that should be easier (still not easy) to track. Our county, just north of Orlando/Orange County, does not have a mask mandate. But, it is still under other state mandates.

So going back to the bars reopening on Monday for most of Fl, wouldn't that fall under a higher risk like parties/homes you just mentioned?

 

[DisneyOma]

My mother is heading back to Florida in a few weeks. Her friend is also heading back, as are the friend's many family members. They live near each other up here and now there. I think there will be plenty of snowbirds heading south soon, as it was below 50'F when we got up this morning, and the heat kicked on (until I ran to the thermostat and shut if off ) I'd expect an uptick of sorts in cases down there for a bit, and then a leveling off as the snowbirds get nervous.

 

[Christine]

My mother is heading back to Florida in a few weeks. Her friend is also heading back, as are the friend's many family members. They live near each other up here and now there. I think there will be plenty of snowbirds heading south soon, as it was below 50'F when we got up this morning, and the heat kicked on (until I ran to the thermostat and shut if off ) I'd expect an uptick of sorts in cases down there for a bit, and then a leveling off as the snowbirds get nervous.

My parents own a home here in Virginia and a home in The Villages. The left The Villages early this year because Florida's numbers were becoming so bad that my parents did not feel safe just doing normal things in the grocery store. I mean, if there is huge community spread, you're obviously going to be passing those people doing your necessary things. She ended up coming back up to Virginia because the numbers were much better at the time and she felt safer going about her business here. At this point, she'd be thinking of heading back down to Florida but she's now telling me she might wait until Christmas or something. She's still not confident in Florida (I don't know why for sure--I'm not really following what's going on--I think she basically distrusts their numbers at this point). She also doesn't like the attitudes there when you're out and about--she saw much less compliance than in Virginia. But, I think she's not going to enjoy the cooler temps here in a few weeks so we shall see.

 

[Pyotr]

I think you just answered your own question, in bold, as to why some counties in Florida are more problematic than others.

I’m going to disagree with this. The counties with less enforcement also have the least amount of cases. This is mostly due to them also being the least populated. The counties with the most enforcement (Orange, Hillsborough, and Miami-Dade), also have the most amount of cases.

As far as snowbirds go, it can really go either way. If cases start spiking in the Midwest like predicted, I could see the snowbirds coming back as long as Florida’s numbers are low.

I’m not sure about the Canadians though. Last month a bought a house from two Canadian snowbirds who I guess decided they weren’t coming for a long time.

 

[hertamaniac]

I’m going to disagree with this. The counties with less enforcement also have the least amount of cases. This is mostly due to them also being the least populated. The counties with the most enforcement (Orange, Hillsborough, and Miami-Dade), also have the most amount of cases.

The poster's point is that they used the "honor system" for compliance and, apparently, were not having adequate results in that particular county. This is also where that county admitted they have other priorities beyond compliance (sounds like they don't have adequate resources to address).

I see it as a ratio of enforcement resources to population. Orange/Hillsborough/Miami-Dade may not have sufficient resources to enforce the mandates and thus have the most cases.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

You do realize that there are tons of people that don't agree with the mask mandates. I still live in a county that doesn't have one and peopled overall don't want one. I still would like someone to explain how South Florida stayed as bad as it did even for having the mandates so early on. If people/private places choose to implement the policy sure but not everyone agrees with the gov't doing so or having the public become their police.

As has been mentioned many times, the difference in population & tourism makes a huge difference. That should be obvious to anyone. Like was mentioned earlier, the parties & big family get togethers also contributed to it. South Florida didn't go into a strict mask mandate, until our cases skyrocketed. As you can see, our cases have done a major nosedive since then.

 

[jlwhitney]

As has been mentioned many times, the difference in population & tourism makes a huge difference. That should be obvious to anyone. Like was mentioned earlier, the parties & big family get togethers also contributed to it. South Florida didn't go into a strict mask mandate, until our cases skyrocketed. As you can see, our cases have done a major nosedive since then.

south Florida has mask mandates for a long time before other parts of Florida . Duval county spiked after mask mandates .

 

[tarheelmjfan]

south Florida has mask mandates for a long time before other parts of Florida . Duval county spiked after mask mandates .

You obviously don't have a lot of knowledge on what has really been going on in South Florida. We had mask mandates, but no enforcement for a long time. This resulted in many people ignoring the mandate. When our numbers went crazy high, they got serious & started implementing fines for non compliance. Businesses were also fined & some were shut down. This resulted in a drastic drop in cases.

 

[Colleen27]

And I'll give you a reference as a former Northerner with friends/family that are still there and monitoring the numbers in Florida and are positioned to travel to their winter homes. They see the theme parks are open and want to spend their winter in a warmer climate provided the numbers keep trending downward; they see plenty to do.

Yeah, the snowbirds we know are still planning on flying (driving) south for winter. But they mostly own homes or mobile homes down there, so their decisionmaking isn't based on what campgrounds or resorts are or are not offering or even how normally the theme parks are operating. It is as simple as winter vs. not winter. My mother's next door neighbor told me that even if he doesn't leave their house all winter other than to walk the dog, it is still better than not leaving the house all winter except to walk the dog in the snow and ice here. At least down there, they can have coffee on the patio and not worry about slippery sidewalks during their afternoon walks.