GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[hertamaniac]

I am anticipating that in about 2 weeks + 3 days after Monday, our state will see dramatic increases in positive cases. The exception will be SE Florida as they are still under a lower phase and won't have the bars reopening.

And bars that serve food have been skirting the intent of the law by opening bags of potato chips, putting them in a bowl and naming them after the establishment; that doesn't exactly scream confidence to me.

 

[Pyotr]

Restaurant-bars don't tend to have the same atmosphere of hanging out for an extended time to drink and socialize. "Bars that serve chicken wings" are really more like restaurants that serve drinks - people come, have their meal (maybe with a drink or two or maybe not) with their own party, and then they leave. Opening bars that don't serve food means nightclubs where people go specifically to meet and mingle with strangers, dive bars where men sit for hours drinking beer and watching the game, etc. And those are higher-risk situations than going to Applebees for dinner with a couple of friends.

What is happening in my area is people are hanging out at Sports Bars that serve food and drinking until late in the evening. I don’t see the difference if someone spends 4 hours there versus a dive bar.

There is one in particular that is always packed when I drive by.

 

[Pyotr]

I am anticipating that in about 2 weeks + 3 days after Monday, our state will see dramatic increases in positive cases. The exception will be SE Florida as they are still under a lower phase and won't have the bars reopening.

And bars that serve food have been skirting the intent of the law by opening bags of potato chips, putting them in a bowl and naming them after the establishment; that doesn't exactly scream confidence to me.

True. But the measures that were put in place didn’t have much of an effect on the virus. For example, look at the attached graph for the mask mandate. The counties that enacted it first were some of the hardest hit.

 

[hertamaniac]

True. But the measures that were put in place didn’t have much of an effect on the virus. For example, look at the attached graph for the mask mandate. The counties that enacted it first were some of the hardest hit. View attachment 525336

A mask mandate without repercussions might as well not have a mandate at all. Personally, I'd like to see DeSantis follow Cuomo's model of letting the residents become the effective police of reporting violations (re: dining establishments). Hire a violations team incognito and dispense throughout the county. I think we are likely to see violations of the 50% capacity and other mandates starting the end of next week. And then, we open ourselves up to reverting back to a previous phase and have to reboot again.

There are other culprits at play as the graph demonstrates. So why open the public floodgates with bars since the numbers are still elevated from the onset?

 

[Pyotr]

A mask mandate without repercussions might as well not have a mandate at all. Personally, I'd like to see DeSantis follow Cuomo's model of letting the residents become the effective police of reporting violations (re: dining establishments). Hire a violations team incognito and dispense throughout the county. I think we are likely to see violations of the 50% capacity and other mandates starting the end of next week. And then, we open ourselves up to reverting back to a previous phase and have to reboot again.

There are other culprits at play as the graph demonstrates. So why open the public floodgates with bars since the numbers are still elevated from the onset?

The last thing Florida needs is mask vigilantes. Our court system is already overflowing with cases. I’d love to be in a courtroom listening to 100s of “his mask was below his nose” cases.

Restaurant violations I could see. However, by the time they implement a snitch system corona will be likely behind us.

 

[lovemygoofy]

What is happening in my area is people are hanging out at Sports Bars that serve food and drinking until late in the evening. I don’t see the difference if someone spends 4 hours there versus a dive bar.

There is one in particular that is always packed when I drive by.

People exchange a lot more intimate spit in a dive bar and not over chicken wings. You are much more in each others faces in real bars that are small or crowded. People drink more, dance close, lean in to be heard, and more. Bars are just much more different than places with food. It is to an extent much more different intentions for large groups of people.

 

[hertamaniac]

oh please , I’m so glad DeSantis isn’t Cuomo.

I am too, but his presentation was pretty convincing about using the public to help enforce violations.

 

[RamblingMad]

I am anticipating that in about 2 weeks + 3 days after Monday, our state will see dramatic increases in positive cases. The exception will be SE Florida as they are still under a lower phase and won't have the bars reopening.

And bars that serve food have been skirting the intent of the law by opening bags of potato chips, putting them in a bowl and naming them after the establishment; that doesn't exactly scream confidence to me.

I suspect FL will see a surge as folks from colder places with growing infections go south.

 

[hertamaniac]

The last thing Florida needs is mask vigilantes. Our court system is already overflowing with cases. I’d love to be in a courtroom listening to 100s of “his mask was below his nose” cases.

Restaurant violations I could see. However, by the time they implement a snitch system corona will be likely behind us.

The first thing Florida needs is a mask enforcement with teeth. Our court systems will be eased once the violations in the establishments do self-enforcement or risk closure. I know if I was a bar/restaurant owner and noticed we are not complying and could be called out, I would immediately enforce the policy so I can stay open.

So....no...this isn't a public on public vigilante scenario, but more of a proprietor being forced to self-comply his/her business.

 

[jlwhitney]

I am too, but his presentation was pretty convincing about using the public to help enforce violations.

I guess I don’t agree with that kind of enforcement

 

[hertamaniac]

I suspect FL will see a surge as folks from colder places with growing infections go south.

Snowbird season may start well before Christmas this year. So, yes, I think a surge is very possible from this demographic.

 

[hertamaniac]

I guess I don’t agree with that kind of enforcement

Remember, his target is to use an enforcement team aimed at only the businesses not in compliance. The public will anonymously tip the "agents" that the establishment is not in compliance and would likely receive a covert visit to confirm/fine/close/etc.

I am absolutely against a person v. person scenario, but when it comes to a business in violation, I have no issue with a reporting mechanism like this.

 

[kdonnel]

Personally, I'd like to see DeSantis follow Cuomo's model of letting the residents become the effective police of reporting violations

Lots and lots of Judge Dredds!

As long as they give them authority to dispatch violators with authority! Only your nose is showing you die a slow death, full non compliance off with your head!

Immediately.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Remember, his target is to use an enforcement team aimed at only the businesses not in compliance. The public will anonymously tip the "agents" that the establishment is not in compliance and would likely receive a covert visit to confirm/fine/close/etc.

I am absolutely against a person v. person scenario, but when it comes to a business in violation, I have no issue with a reporting mechanism like this.

You're debating with someone who doesn't agree with wearing masks at all. As a resident of South Florida, I totally agree that the mask mandates should be enforced with fines for anyone refusing to wear a mask correctly & possible shutdowns, if businesses won't comply.

 

[Christine]

Remember, his target is to use an enforcement team aimed at only the businesses not in compliance. The public will anonymously tip the "agents" that the establishment is not in compliance and would likely receive a covert visit to confirm/fine/close/etc.

I am absolutely against a person v. person scenario, but when it comes to a business in violation, I have no issue with a reporting mechanism like this.

I believe this is what Virginia is doing. I have no idea how well they are executing it, but basically a private citizen either calls or goes online to provide their experience with an establishment (were employees wearing masks, were customers, etc--date, time, location). If the team gets enough reports from one place, they go make a visit.

 

[jlwhitney]

You're debating with someone who doesn't agree with wearing masks at all. As a resident of South Florida, I totally agree that the mask mandates should be enforced with fines for anyone refusing to wear a mask correctly & possible shutdowns, if businesses won't comply.

You do realize that there are tons of people that don't agree with the mask mandates. I still live in a county that doesn't have one and peopled overall don't want one. I still would like someone to explain how South Florida stayed as bad as it did even for having the mandates so early on. If people/private places choose to implement the policy sure but not everyone agrees with the gov't doing so or having the public become their police.

 

[hertamaniac]

Lots and lots of Judge Dredds!

As long as they give them authority to dispatch violators with authority! Only your nose is showing you die a slow death, full non compliance off with your head!

Immediately.

Without an enforcement team that carries out a/the mandate, there will be more Judge Deads stemming from non-compliant businesses.

 

[littlejimmy]

Snowbird season may start well before Christmas this year. So, yes, I think a surge is very possible from this demographic.

I respectfully disagree with this. in my talks with plenty of people that head to florida for the winter, the vast majority are deciding against it this year. again, not a scientifiic poll, but more than just my opinion.

 

[amylevan]

Snowbird season may start well before Christmas this year. So, yes, I think a surge is very possible from this demographic.

I wouldn’t be entirely sure about snowbird season this year. My parents and their friends are largely undecided about going this year. And arent Canadians still denied entrance?

 

[hertamaniac]

You do realize that there are tons of people that don't agree with the mask mandates. I still live in a county that doesn't have one and peopled overall don't want one. I still would like someone to explain how South Florida stayed as bad as it did even for having the mandates so early on. If people/private places choose to implement the policy sure but not everyone agrees with the gov't doing so or having the public become their police.

This points back to executing the mandate rather than merely showcasing it. Start slapping fines on the businesses that don't comply followed closely by closures and I'm guessing there would be a slow choke hold on violations (not just mask, but social distancing, etc.).

It's simple to me: your patrons don't comply.....you risk losing your business.