"Good" vs. "Good for Disney"

[tony67]

You must be truly charmed when it comes to Disney dining. As much as I love all things Disney, I've had enough seriously bad meals to realize that it just seems to go with the territory. For some reason, when something goes wrong, it's always bad food OR service; never both (thankfully). Overall, the good still outweighs the bad and I will keep returning unless the ratio swings the other way.

But I definitely have to take exception to your comments about freshness and originality of ingredients. In WDW it runs the whole gamut from impeccable to horrendous. When it's good, it doesn't get much better. Perfect, in fact. When it's bad, it's rotten (literally, sometimes). Fish shouldn't smell like ammonia, bread shouldn't be stale, pasta shouldn't be mush, and lettuce shouldn't have liquidy brown edges.

I agree with much of what you say here.

Maybe the PP has not been to the world in quite a few years? Things have been better in the past.
Now it is salmon on every menu, the same filet done slightly different on every menu and Lamb shanks on several menus.
How about some variety?

You can get a bad meal almost anywhere, but IMO it is far more likely at Disney with their centralized McDonald’s like food processing.

I don’t recall anyone asking for Wagyu beef for the price of Golden Coral, but should a steak at the Yachtsman cost about the same as a steak at Shula’s a short walk away?
The Yatchman does not come close.
The steak at le Celler is $35, but not any better than a steak at the Outback for half the price and at least the tables at the Outback are not on top of each other.
The service at Outback is also better most of the time.

These prices are inflated for the DDP, they could not charge this for the quality they are serving and stay open long in the real world IMO.

People seem to accept this because it’s Disney. That’s my biggest frustration. The food was top quality at one time. The Chef’s could be creative. There was variety.
I always mention the whole fire roasted piranha at the Coral Reef before it became a glorified Red Lobster, it was truly amazing.
I don’t think we will ever see things that in a Disney Restaurant again, or anything that unusual. (excluding V&A and the places that are not owned by Disney like Blue Zoo etc..)

And if we want to list all the places we’ve dined I’ve dined in Paris, Dublin, London, Rome, Venice, Milan, Sydney, Perth, Berlin, Munich, Salzburg, and many places in between (as well as around the US) and the standardized food at Disney does not compare to similarly priced food in the real world. If I dined in most of these places in the real world I would refer to them as tourist traps.

As for “Learning how to dine” could you use a more generic quote? Everyone has seen a movie that has mentioned these basics.
But you know what, not everything you see in the movies is true.
The Capital Grill always has an excellent fish dish as a daily special and it has never disappointed.
They also have excellent seafood for the appetizers.

I bet most chefs (I said chefs, not cooks) in Vietnamese restaurants can cook some amazing French food.

 

[christinec68]

At this point, I dont even think the food is good for Disney. There are exceptions, but there are not too many stand outs on the menus any more. Each restaurant has limited options. The options are pretty much the same from one restaurant to the next.

 

[tinacaplan]

This is certainly an interesting, provacative question. I live in a semi-suburban area, near NY, so I've eaten in some truly outstanding restaraunts. Mario Batali is it for me as far as Italian is concerned, but then, there is a HUGE difference between Italian-American food and authentic Italian food (and I'm Italian-American, so I know my way around a good pot of sauce with meatballs). The penultimate Italian experiences for me ALWAYS involve well-cooked, FRESH pasta. Not sure I'm going to find that anywhere in Disney.

I do not like eating at chain restaurants. I think they taste like everything's overly processed and like you're basically eating frozen food. Sometimes it can be OK, but never among the best.

As for the short menus, most great restaurants have limited menus. You gotta wonder about the quality coming out of a kitchen that has a lengthy menu...IMHO.

That said, I've signed up for the DxDP for my trip in February and have scruitinized the menus for the signature places and they all look pretty good to me.

I guess we will have to wait and see!

One thing I would like to see more of on the Dis, though, is people doing a better job of explaining what was so great about whatever dish they ate. I get it...you thought it was delicious...but WHY?

I'm still confident I'm going walk away happy, though. Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[Sweet Melissa]

The penultimate Italian experiences for me ALWAYS involve well-cooked, FRESH pasta.

I like my pasta courses to be maybe third from last.

 

[webray]

Interesting thread. To start, I must say that the Disney restaurants appeal to me BECAUSE they are at Disney and I get a chance to visit the Resort Hotels when I dine.
If they were local to my area, (Baltimore/ York Pa.) I'd say all the Signatures (except V&A) would need to expand their menus. Most local spots at the same prices have dozens of selections etc while Disney restaurant menus are limited to but one page. Some have only 6 or eight entrees. Beer selection is poor (tho they do pretty well with wine).
All that said- I'd go to V&A, Flying Fish, Blue Zoo and MAYBE the California Grill (because I love their flatbread appetizers and I don't see those around these parts that often).

We agree...Disney restaurants would never stand on their own in most cities we have lived in. Quality of food is just to low.

 

[2infinityandbeyond]

All that said- I'd go to V&A, Flying Fish, Blue Zoo and MAYBE the California Grill

At a lower price point, maybe, but in most "foodie" cities (NO, Philly, NYC, Chicago, etc.) the competition is too stiff to justify the price. $36 for potato crusted snapper (FF's "signature" entree') is absurd, but they get it in WDW because they have a captive audience.

 

[limace]

i like my pasta courses to be maybe third from last.

lmao.

 

[Rip]

At this point, I dont even think the food is good for Disney. There are exceptions, but there are not too many stand outs on the menus any more. Each restaurant has limited options. The options are pretty much the same from one restaurant to the next.

10 years ago (when I lived there), Disney had probably the best restaurants on average in the Orlando area.

Enter the DDP.......

That said, even at its peak I can't think of a single restaurant (including V&As, which I loved) that would stand on its own in very many places - and none would at the prices they charge.

I'm spoiled, I can get Chef John Besh's "chef's menu" for $150/person including wine, and I'd put that up against even V&A any time.

 

[Pygoplites]

At a lower price point, maybe, but in most "foodie" cities (NO, Philly, NYC, Chicago, etc.) the competition is too stiff to justify the price. $36 for potato crusted snapper (FF's "signature" entree') is absurd, but they get it in WDW because they have a captive audience.

Not so sure about that; $30+ for a fish entree isn't too hard to find in a big city. My favorite seafood restaurant in LA charges $42 for cod.

 

[oybolshoi]

Not so sure about that; $30+ for a fish entree isn't too hard to find in a big city. My favorite seafood restaurant in LA charges $42 for cod.

For cod?

I was thinking about this earlier and I have to say that V&A is still an exceptional bargain all things considered. We no longer have any 5-star / diamond restaurants in St. Louis - haven't for a while - but the city's sole 4-star charges more than $200 per person (with wine pairings) for their chefs menu and it's not even in the same class as V&A.

Just funny to think about V&A being a great deal, isn't it?

 

[Pygoplites]

Yeah, and $49 for halibut!! The restaurant is Providence and is one of only 4 places in LA with 2 Michelin stars (and there are no 3-stars). Worth every penny.

My non-food-obsessed friends think I'm crazy for saying that V&A is a bargain! But it really is.

For cod?

I was thinking about this earlier and I have to say that V&A is still an exceptional bargain all things considered. We no longer have any 5-star / diamond restaurants in St. Louis - haven't for a while - but the city's sole 4-star charges more than $200 per person (with wine pairings) for their chefs menu and it's not even in the same class as V&A.

Just funny to think about V&A being a great deal, isn't it?

 

[BriarRosie]

I am chiming in from the Chicago area to share my thoughts on recent trips I took in October and last week.

The biggest disappointment was that places I used to love like Tangierine Cafe for a quick service meal have lessened in quality. You don't serve cold gyros meat. Bleh. So that's off my list until I hear that they've improved.

I had good and bad last week. Sanaa was a really pleasant surprise. I ordered the sustainable fish, an arctic char. It's a rich, buttery fish on its own. But when it's sitting perched on fresh veggies in a light broth, hanging out with two perfectly cooked scallops and three perfectly cooked shrimp, it was a bargain in a bowl. A very tasty one, too.

The other surprise shouldn't come as much of a surprise to most people. I made the mistake of ordering the filet mignon at the Crew's Cup Lounge adjacent to Yachtsman Steakhouse. The steak did not remind me of any filet I've had, and it was highway robbery that they charged me $40 for it. The plus side was that the accompaniments were terrific. I'd probably just order appetizers, side dishes, cheese plate and the bread service and skip the steak.

I still enjoyed V&A and would definitely return.

 

[Tpr430]

Boma. Food is great and I always get my money's worth!

 

[snookiedoodles]

This is certainly an interesting, provacative question. I live in a semi-suburban area, near NY, so I've eaten in some truly outstanding restaraunts. Mario Batali is it for me as far as Italian is concerned, but then, there is a HUGE difference between Italian-American food and authentic Italian food (and I'm Italian-American, so I know my way around a good pot of sauce with meatballs). The penultimate Italian experiences for me ALWAYS involve well-cooked, FRESH pasta. Not sure I'm going to find that anywhere in Disney.

I do not like eating at chain restaurants. I think they taste like everything's overly processed and like you're basically eating frozen food. Sometimes it can be OK, but never among the best.

As for the short menus, most great restaurants have limited menus. You gotta wonder about the quality coming out of a kitchen that has a lengthy menu...IMHO.

That said, I've signed up for the DxDP for my trip in February and have scruitinized the menus for the signature places and they all look pretty good to me.

I guess we will have to wait and see!

One thing I would like to see more of on the Dis, though, is people doing a better job of explaining what was so great about whatever dish they ate. I get it...you thought it was delicious...but WHY?

I'm still confident I'm going walk away happy, though. Sorry for the lengthy post.

I agree 100 percent............I live outside of NYC, and I will be going to Disney in FEB with the the DDP also!!

 

[SorcererDonald16]

Interesting question.

Of the restaurants I've eaten at, I can only think of 3 that could stand on their own here: Hollywood Brown Derby, Chefs de France, and Le Cellier.

We don't have many "special" restaurants in my area; mostly chain establishments. There's nothing like HBD here. There are only a couple of French restaurants within a half hour's drive, and I can definitely say Chefs de France far outpaces them in terms of food and atmosphere. The only steakhouses we have are one of those Texas Saloon places and Outback, and I'd much rather have Le Cellier's steak any day. I'd include California Grill as well, but I don't see this as being a big sushi area, nor would people pay their prices for the food they offer.

Being by the ocean, we have a ton of local seafood restaurants though, and none of WDW's seafood establishments could last here, IMO.

If the theme/characters could come along too, Chef Mickey's could probably stand alone as well. Basically a more expensive Shoney's buffet, and they do fairly well in terms of customers.

If we're talking Counter Service, I could definitely see Kringla Bakeri in Epcot doing a big business here. Several of the specialty bakeries closed, and now all that's really left are bakeries found in grocery stores. They'd be basically the only one of it's kind here.

 

[dizfanz]

I live in Indianapolis. Pretty much any Signature restaurant would be better than what we have here. My faves though would be Flying Fish, Il Mulino, Portabella, Cali Grill, Jiko and Chefs and/or Bistro de Paris.

 

[ElizabethB]

I can't seem to figure out how to quote, but I agree with everything Tony67 said above. Dining at WDW has become as mechanized and rote as dining at a McDonald's. Even the signature restaurants suffer from centralized control and ordering. Very little creativity for chefs anymore. This is a shame, as it was not that way a few years ago. The DDP has changed everything.

So, putting aside the restaurants that are already in NYC, I'd have to say only V&A would survive outside WDW. I think it would not just survive, but prosper -- even in the highest echelons of the NYC restaurant scene, which may be the toughest in the world (real world!) outside of Paris. I agree with Brenda that V&A is a bargain -- especially the wine pairing for only $70. One decent glass of wine is $15 anywhere these days. And, the food is comparable to the best NYC has to offer.

As for the other signature restaurants, we enjoy the food at Jiko. However, the signature restaurants are all seriously overpriced -- and with DDP, they are worse than ever. One really can't dine at WDW restaurants out of pocket anymore. For example, a piece of salmon that is about $24 at Shula's is around $37 at Artist Point. Shula's quality is superb. There is no real reason for the price difference except gouging. And, Disney benefits from putting the menu prices unreasonably high for two reasons:

1. It makes those on the DDP feel they got a great deal (no one stops to think the menu prices are artificially high); and


On our last visit, we thought Artist Point was pretty disappointing. The salmon was delicious as always. But, I think there were only two dessert choices on the menu! The berry cobbler is about 1/4 the size it used to be -- but still $10. And, the chocolate dessert was basically a zebra dome -- for $10. Artist Point put me in a seriously bad mood.

Basically, the DDP has distorted pricing as I described above, such that we don't bother much with the signature restaurants anymore. Jiko and that's about it. CG is often good -- love the cheese plate -- but the atmosphere is so ridiculously chaotic anymore that who needs it.

So, V&A is the only restaurant, IMO, that would survive in its present form outside of the world (Disneyworld that is.)

 

[christinec68]

As for the short menus, most great restaurants have limited menus. You gotta wonder about the quality coming out of a kitchen that has a lengthy menu...IMHO.

I agree with you here in general. A good restaurant is going to have a more limited menu to provide the best quality and flavors available.

What about a place like Boatrights? We are talking run of the mill comfort food with 7 entrees running $16-27. Whispering Canyon is the same thing - they have the skillet plus a handful of other items some of which are just single portions of the skillet offerings.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I know it's not a ts, but if flametree opened up a location near me ( north of Boston ) it would be very popular carry out for the work lunch crowd, or for a quick take out dinner on a week night. The Plaza is very simmilar to Brighams which used to be a very popular icecream/ sandwhich chain that recently went out of business but was popular for decades prior.

As I think about this question, I come back to the CS restaurants and think most of those could stand on their own. However, I live in a city with great local dining and it's hard for me to think of any Disney TS restaurants I've visited standing on their own, at those prices, here. They'd have to improve their quality substantially or reduce the prices to what we in Reality World would pay.

 

[Pakey]

We dine out of pocket all of the time at WDW, so yes it can be done. I honestly don't pay much attention to the prices. I do pay attention to the menu offerings and have been disappointed in the signatures in the past 2 years. While still decent enough for a theme park vacation, we don't make dining as high of a priority as in years past.

V&A still ranks among the top 50 in the U.S. and with it's low prices, it could definitely survive. While I don't think the food is as great as some of the other 5 stars I've enjoyed, the service is good and it's a steal for what you get.