good news tsa rethinking pat downs

[Mrs. Charming]

I am just saying if I go thru the body scanner and then they want to pat me down then I will walk over to where they want me to go and just strip naked.

If you don't want to be pulled..... don't wear jewelry, belts, etc. Put it all in your carry on. I even put my wallet and keys in my carry on when I get in line. I want nothing on me. Most times I wear mesh shorts, t-shirt, socks and sneakers. If I need to be dresses some other way I change after going thru security. This way there is no need for anything to trigger the "alarms".

Ditto. Sweats, flip flops, cotton clasp-less sports bras. I may look like a slob, but I don't beep!

 

[sam_gordon]

We don't want a system where the physical attributes of a passenger (age, dimensions, sex, etc.) determines which passenger gets selected for extra screening.

We also don't want a system where passengers (and by extension terrorists) know exactly what to expect.

Selecting some passengers for secondary screening on a random basis makes a lot of sense.

Agreed with all. However, I think the TSA can post guidelines on the different pat down "levels" and say passengers are subject to any.
possible examples:
basic patdown: what has been in place for decades just simply running hands down side of body & inside legs up to thigh high. This would be used for passengers who 'alarm' the WTMD (in order to find what caused the alarm... if no cause is found, go to enhanced patdown) and children.
enhanced patdown: the basic patdown plus using the back of the hand on "sensitive" areas. This would be used for the majority (75-80%) passengers who 'opt out' of the new scanners.
advanced patdown: the enhanced patdown but using the 'front' confused3) of the hand. This would be used for the remainder of passengers who opt out of the new scanners and anyone who alarms the new scanners (when it's not obvious what the problem is).

Thoughts?

 

[olwyngdh]

Agreed with all. However, I think the TSA can post guidelines on the different pat down "levels" and say passengers are subject to any.
possible examples:
basic patdown: what has been in place for decades just simply running hands down side of body & inside legs up to thigh high. This would be used for passengers who 'alarm' the WTMD (in order to find what caused the alarm... if no cause is found, go to enhanced patdown) and children.
enhanced patdown: the basic patdown plus using the back of the hand on "sensitive" areas. This would be used for the majority (75-80%) passengers who 'opt out' of the new scanners.
advanced patdown: the enhanced patdown but using the 'front' confused3) of the hand. This would be used for the remainder of passengers who opt out of the new scanners and anyone who alarms the new scanners (when it's not obvious what the problem is).

Thoughts?

Send your suggestion to the TSA and your congressperson and senator. I think an explanation like that, allowing the TSA to escalate as needed instead of forcing them to the highest level all the time, might help a lot. Right now, it seems as if they don't have any discretionary power.

 

[Minnie Lor]

I'd go for bomb sniffing dogs and the wand that catches explosives. My husband is an avid sporting clays shooter. He always wears clothes and shoes that he's never worn to the gun club when we go on vacation.

We both dress "business casual" when we fly but that may re-evaluate our clothes if we decide to fly with these new proceedures.

 

[ccgirl]

Personally, I would be happier with a bomb sniffing dog than the inappropriate touching and nude body scans. I would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make me feel violated. I am finding a lot of the men I talk to are fine with the new scanners, but the women seem to be much more modest. And pretty much universally, people with children are concerned, at the least.

As far as the cost of the dogs. If each airport has 4-8 scanners at ~$200,000 each I think the dogs would be cheaper. And I would also consent to swapping for residue of me and my daughter. I think these are reasonable alternatives.

I just quoted you because you said you would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make you feel violated. I watched on the news last night that they are going to switch the full body scanners to one's that show a stick figure person rather than an anatomically correct outline of your body. Would that make you feel less violated? Genuinely curious; not trying to pick on you or anything. Personally, I do not feel violated by the FBS so I was wondering if the stick figure would make someone who feels violated feel less violated. Thanks!

 

[Minnie Lor]

I just quoted you because you said you would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make you feel violated. I watched on the news last night that they are going to switch the full body scanners to one's that show a stick figure person rather than an anatomically correct outline of your body. Would that make you feel less violated? Genuinely curious; not trying to pick on you or anything. Personally, I do not feel violated by the FBS so I was wondering if the stick figure would make someone who feels violated feel less violated. Thanks!

It would me. Interesting...I'll have to look for that info.

 

[sam_gordon]

I hadn't heard about the 'stick figure' either. News actually came out about it last week...

Boston Herald

 

[maxiesmom]

Ditto. Sweats, flip flops, cotton clasp-less sports bras. I may look like a slob, but I don't beep!

Me too. I wear a t-shirt, a zip hoodie, and capris with no zippers. Any jewelry I need (belt, watch) goes into my carry-on and goes thru the scanner.

I was once patted down because I had the foil from a stick of chewing gum make me beep at the WTMD. Last time I flew with my brother in law his belt earned him a pat down. Just don't have anything metal on you people! It makes things so much easier.

 

[disney david]

Personally, I would be happier with a bomb sniffing dog than the inappropriate touching and nude body scans. I would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make me feel violated. I am finding a lot of the men I talk to are fine with the new scanners, but the women seem to be much more modest. And pretty much universally, people with children are concerned, at the least.

As far as the cost of the dogs. If each airport has 4-8 scanners at ~$200,000 each I think the dogs would be cheaper. And I would also consent to swapping for residue of me and my daughter. I think these are reasonable alternatives.

I agree they need more dogs but each dog can only work a certain amount of hours they are trained to find their toy. So when they make a hit wheather it be bombs or drugs their handler gives the toy and let them know they did good nt matter if it was a bomb or drugs they have to give them postive to keep them working. After awhile of them not finding anything the dog starts to get unfocused and they need to give them a break and give the toy. So for them to have enough dogs to cover the whole airport 24/7 means they need more dogs. I am nt saying the scaners are the right thing or the new pat downs should stick. the tsa needs to put more k-9 teams at airport most airport have the local police dogs patroling and customs use their own dogs for their areas. they should change the tsa into full aremed police and have them patrol the airport plus backing up private securty running the check points. So in the eyes of the fedreal gov it cheaper to put in the machines then to train and hire extra officers to handle the dogs. But the dogs noise is better then the agents eyes looking at you so it be better for them to put dogs in place. It be hard to aviod the dogs since they walk the whole airport and their fur is proberly every where.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I just quoted you because you said you would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make you feel violated. I watched on the news last night that they are going to switch the full body scanners to one's that show a stick figure person rather than an anatomically correct outline of your body. Would that make you feel less violated? Genuinely curious; not trying to pick on you or anything. Personally, I do not feel violated by the FBS so I was wondering if the stick figure would make someone who feels violated feel less violated. Thanks!

If they could GUARANTEE that no naked scans were taken-which they can't-then I would be ok. The scanners are a "digital strip search" and have the capability to take your photo effectively nude and they have the capability to store them and download them on a drive if necessary (as is clearly demonstrated by the fact that there are pictures of scans available on the internet). The fact that they blur the face doesn't mean the face isn't clear at some file level within the scanner. So, given all of that, NO I do not trust ANYONE to disable some functionality of the machine and take their word for it.

 

[ironz]

Ditto. Sweats, flip flops, cotton clasp-less sports bras. I may look like a slob, but I don't beep!

Just pay attention your sweats are not bulky. That is one thing they are watching out for and will pat you down. Saw quite a few in that scenario flying out of PDX last weekend.

 

[danabalana]

People have routinely had to remove belts and watches...never mattered what type scanner you went through.
My issue is why you had to be patted down if you both went through the scanner?? I was under the assumption (knowing what happens when 'one' asumes) that you got the pat down if you refused the scanner, or if you set off an alarm. Did both you and your ds set off an alarm??
Just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing.

Me too. I went through security at HNL a couple of days ago. They were randomly choosing people to go through the full body scans.
I was chosen.... Woohoo.
I also received a full feel up after I went through. I assume it was because the underwire in my bra showed up in the scan?? If these scanners are doing the job, why couldn't they see that it was a bra?? So I got double duty. I just wanted to go home and I'm sure that's what they're hoping for. I don't care if someone sees my bod with the scanner (even though the radiation issue is not resolved) but it really chaps my hide for a stanger to put their hands on me without probable cause.
If it walks like a bra, quacks like a bra, and is holding up the girls...it's a bra.

 

[livndisney]

I do hope they reconsider the full pat down. No matter how you look at, the government does not belong in my underwear.

 

[disneyfan55]

the head of the tsa says the pat downs might have went to far.


http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/tsa-responds-passenger-outrages-underwear-search-happen/story?id=12208932


Please keep your response in the guide lines of the boards i dont want this to get closed or in trouble. Just read it and dont feel like you have to comment if you cant keep the response civil. Just remeber everyone has a opion and is entitled to their opinion.

Yes, at least they're finally realizing a problem. This is another article on aol with the TSA chief.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...pistole-says-no-body-cavity-searches/19728594

 

[disneyfan55]

Me too. I went through security at HNL a couple of days ago. They were randomly choosing people to go through the full body scans.
I was chosen.... Woohoo.
I also received a full feel up after I went through. I assume it was because the underwire in my bra showed up in the scan?? If these scanners are doing the job, why couldn't they see that it was a bra?? So I got double duty. I just wanted to go home and I'm sure that's what they're hoping for. I don't care if someone sees my bod with the scanner (even though the radiation issue is not resolved) but it really chaps my hide for a stanger to put their hands on me without probable cause.
If it walks like a bra, quacks like a bra, and is holding up the girls...it's a bra.

I know. How about the flight attendant that had breast cancer. I guess enogh is enough with this. Was it the bra? do they at least tell you?

 

[disneyfan55]

Personally, I would be happier with a bomb sniffing dog than the inappropriate touching and nude body scans. I would be willing to submit to anything that doesn't make me feel violated. I am finding a lot of the men I talk to are fine with the new scanners, but the women seem to be much more modest. And pretty much universally, people with children are concerned, at the least.

As far as the cost of the dogs. If each airport has 4-8 scanners at ~$200,000 each I think the dogs would be cheaper. And I would also consent to swapping for residue of me and my daughter. I think these are reasonable alternatives.

Yes, exactally. They are used on Amtrack now and no problem there.

 

[disney david]

Yes, at least they're finally realizing a problem. This is another article on aol with the TSA chief.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...pistole-says-no-body-cavity-searches/19728594

Thanks for posting the article it good to get more then one new source and yes atleast he admiting that the oat down might be going to far I rather him say that then say their nothing wrong with some agents going to far.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

Just pay attention your sweats are not bulky. That is one thing they are watching out for and will pat you down. Saw quite a few in that scenario flying out of PDX last weekend.

Oh yikes. Thanks for the heads up. It'll be December in Philadelphia... what do they expect??

 

[disneyfan55]

Thanks for posting the article it good to get more then one new source and yes atleast he admiting that the oat down might be going to far I rather him say that then say their nothing wrong with some agents going to far.

Yes, there are many. There is another where he even compared the workers to something really odd. That was in USA today, I believe. It seems that the problems are not localized leading me to think it must be the training process. Seems like many airports are involved with the complaints.

 

[fakereadhed]

Really don't understand the complete dismissal of behavioral and criminal profiling. Huge difference between that and racial profiling- which we all agree is wrong. If they put that in place they would only have to pat down Grandma if her behavior was suspicious.

For the kids and those with medical issues, TSA should have a medical professional available who could do the pat downs. I still don't see how they get around disability privacy laws and force people to disclose medical histories and prosthetic breasts. I think it would be more palatable if it was done by a medical professional.