Good learning experience - but need help

[TheGoofster]

Yesterday I had the chance to shoot some (almost 300 shots) at my daughters gymnastics class. This is the first time I've had a chance to use my new Nikon D5000 to shoot an indoor sports activity.

Let's just say that it was quite an eye opener for me. I had done a lot of reading before hand, but found out that putting into application what I read was quite a different matter. I think the thing that I learned the most yesterday is just how much more I need to learn about taking good shots.

So, I am hoping that some of you who are very experienced with photography can not only critique what I did, but also hopefully give some good advice on how to do better next time.

Let me also say that thankfully these are not once-in-a-lifetime kind of shots. I can retake pretty much all of them in her next class(es).
Also, I've reduced the size of the pictures here to 640 to make them more manageable (instead of the size I shot them at which is the largest my camera has - 4288x2848) so even though some of them don't look too bad at this size, when you put them on a monitor at regular size they look quite a bit worse.

Let me start with the basics. I am using a Nikon D5000, with the kit lens (18-55mm f/4.5 - f/25). I have a telephoto lens, but I stuck with the smaller lens instead. I shot mostly in the "A" mode. The class takes place in a poorly lit building, during early evening, so the lighting is pretty bad. In fact, here's a shot of what the lighting is more or less like:

When I took shots where there wasn't much movement they came out pretty good:

(f/5.6, 1/40 sec, ISO - 640)

But as soon as I tried to shoot moving shots I started having more trouble

(f/5.6, 1/30 sec, ISO - ISO 800)

Now, for some reason (I'm still not really sure why), I decided to focus more on ISO instead of shutter speed. I'm pretty sure that this explains a lot of the problems I had.
Also, because the Auto-focus couldn't seem to focus fast enough, I went with manual focus.

As the class went on, I kept increasing the ISO. Some of the shots came out OK:

(f/5, 1/125 sec, ISO 3200)
and

(f/4.5, 1/125 sec, ISO 3200 - -0.3 step (btw, why did this shot automatically give me a -0.3 step when most other shots didn't?)

But unfortunately most shots came out quite a bit blurry. There were some nice shots that I missed that I want to try and do again, but with better results:

(f/4.5, 1/40 sec, ISO 3200 (also with a -0.3 step).
and

(f/4.5, 1/60 sec, ISO 3200)

I think what I did wrong first of all is not work more with shutter speed. Most of the shots are under 1/125 sec. I think I was too worried about low light, and didn't consider well movement.
Also, I seemed to have a hard time with focusing correctly. What is the best way to improve focusing like this (low light with fast moving subjects). I haven't had a chance yet to try out Focus lock. would this be the best way to deal with fast moving objects? is there a better way?

From what you can tell form the photos, what settings would you suggest (form Aperture, to shutter speed, to ISO)?
What kind of focusing should I work with (auto, manual, focus lock, etc...)?
Should I use a tripod (I didn't know if I could pan with it well enough to get the moving subjects)?
Which mode should I try "A", "M", "P", "S"?

Is there any other advice you could give that I should try. Like I said, I will have more chances to repeat many of these shots, and I would love to see the difference that the proper settings, or good advice will make.

I really can't use a flash, because it would be too disturbing for the kids.

I really appreciate any critique and or advice. I realize I have a lot to learn, but am looking forward to practicing every chance I get.

Thanks

 

[Frantasmic]

You need a good indoor lens that can get down to at least f2.8, preferrably even better than that.

I'm sure there is a Nikon equivalent to the Canon 85mm f1.8 that has made a world of difference to my indoor shooting. I shoot basketball, volleyball, and choir performances mostly. The lens does make all the difference in the world.

For the kind of results you want, you'd need to get in the f2.8 or better range of aperture, ISO 800, and your shutter speed would need to be 1/250 or higher (bottom number increasing).

 

[disneyboy2003]

You've got a nice first-time effort at gymnastics shots. Those are some really really tough conditions you're trying to shoot in: fast-paced action in low-light situations.

Aperture / lens:
For low-light photography, you'll need to invest in a different lens, one that has a larger aperture (smaller f-number). A lens with a larger aperture will let in more light into your camera--something you need in low-light situations. You'll want at least f/2.8 or larger (smaller f-number). Your kit lens probably opens up as large as f/5.6 when zoomed in, so you're letting in *3/4 less light* into your camera, compared to a lens with f/2.8!

There are several options for low-light lenses. The most cost-effective would be a 50mm f/1.8 lens for about $100. At f/1.8, this lens will let in about 8x more light into your camera, compared to a kit lens at f/5.6.

Other lenses to consider are the 50mm f/1.4 for $400, or the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for $400. At f/1.4, these lenses will let it almost 2x more light than an f/1.8 lens, and almost 16x more light than the kit lens at f/5.6! Because these are "prime lenses", they are fixed in focal length, meaning they do not zoom. If you've got lots of $$$$, you can buy zoom lenses with large apertures.

ISO:
You were right to increase your ISO in this low-light setting. At the minimum, you'll probably be using ISO 800 or higher.

Shutter speed:
For fast-paced action, your shutter speed was pretty slow. For gymnastics, you'll probably need 1/200 - 1/250 sec at the slowest. Ideally, you'd probably go with 1/500 - 1/1000 sec shutter speed. To achieve these fast shutter speeds in low-light situations, you'll need larger apertures (smaller f-numbers) and higher ISOs. Together, these 3 comprise the "exposure triangle," and you can see how all 3 interact / affect each other.


If you're having difficulty focusing, you can try pre-focusing on a spot that is close to where your subject will be. Perhaps pre-focus (press the shutter only 1/2-way down) on the mat under the spot where you anticipate your gymnast will be in the air, and when the gymnast is right there where you had planned, that's when you press the shutter down all the way.

Which mode should you shoot in? I, personally, would shoot in Manual mode, so that I can control the shutter speed and aperture. But again, that's just my personal preference. I'm sure others will make good cases for shooting in Aperture-priority (A or Av) or Shutter-priority (S or Tv). I wouldn't use (P) or Auto (green box). And, as you mentioned in your post, don't use flash.

Hope that helps! Yes, you can take great gymnastics photos! They did it all the time during the Olympics, so YES it is possible!

 

[GrillMouster]

In a situation like this, where I'm more concerned with controlling motion blur rather than depth-of-field, I'd use shutter priority rather than aperture priority. A shutter speed of 1/125 might still be too slow for gymnastics up close. Once you've locked in the shutter speed that you want to freeze action (keeping in mind that sometimes a little blur is actually good). you can count on the camera automatically selecting the largest aperture possible. However, with a fast shutter speed and a limited maximum aperture, there will still be underexposure if you don't bump up your ISO. In dim lighting you're going to have to bump it up quite a bit. Accept that there will be image noise, and that it will be worse in dark parts of the image. It's preferable to have a sharp & noisy image than a blurry noise-free image. You can remove some noise in post-production or convert to black & white, so it has a nice, film grain look.

There are things you can do to help freeze motion with a lower shutter speed. One thing is to practice your tracking. Use a fluid motion, start tracking before you press the shutter release, and keep moving after the image is taken. Another thing is to try photographing the subjects as they move toward or away from you. Subjects moving horizontally across the frame are more apt to have motion blur. Back away from your subject. The closer you are to them, and the more of the frame they fill the faster they will move around the frame, leading to motion blur. You ever notice how a plain way up in the sky appears to be moving so slowly, when the toddler a few feet away from your seems to be zipping along at the speed of light? The smaller the subject is in the frame, the less apparent motion blur will become. Of course, don't take this too far; you want your subject to be large enough in the frame that it's still clearly the subject.

As for focus, the max aperture of your camera is not very large, so autofocus will be slow. Since your lens is variable-aperture, your aperture will be even smaller when you're zoomed in, and autofocus will be that much more difficult. The difference between 5.6 and 4 may not seem like much, but f/4 give your autofocus twice as much light as f/5.6 allows. It may be preferable to manuallyi pre-focus on a spot, then track your subject and snap the picture right when they reach the spot on which you pre-focused.

With all of that said, don't I want to point out again that you don't have to freeze all motion. In fact, I'm sometimes bored to tears by so-called action shots in which the subject is completely frozen. Some motion, particularly in the extremeties, can help convey the feel of motion in a still image. IMHO completely freezing all motion works best when the subject is in mid-air. In such situations motion is apparent, because it would otherwise defy the laws of physics for a person to hover in mid-air.

 

[GrillMouster]

I guess we were all typing at the same time.

 

[disneyboy2003]

I guess we were all typing at the same time.

That's the great thing about the folks on this board. So many people ready to offer advice at the same time!


PS. One of the other questions that TheGoofster asked was whether to use a tripod. Don't use a tripod. You can do all this handheld. Maybe the only thing that you might consider would be a monopod so that you'd have camera stability and versatility in moving from one spot to another. But I wouldn't worry too much about the monopod. Go handheld for these shots.

 

[Pugrpooh]

Thanks for asking this! It's something I've been putting off and I almost took my camera to gymnastics last night, but didn't.

I need to use my 70-300mm lens because the viewing area is on the second floor and it's a pretty large gym. I think I'll take my 40-150 along too, but bars and floor are clear across on the other side. I'll be following along to get some pointers too.

 

[disneyboy2003]

Thanks for asking this! It's something I've been putting off and I almost took my camera to gymnastics last night, but didn't.

I need to use my 70-300mm lens because the viewing area is on the second floor and it's a pretty large gym. I think I'll take my 40-150 along too, but bars and floor are clear across on the other side. I'll be following along to get some pointers too.

If you're going to be a little further away from the action, then you can try using an 85mm f/1.8 lens for a little less than $400, as suggested by Frantasmic. You can also try the 100mm f/2.0 lens for $450.

Unfortunately, if you need more focal length PLUS large aperture, you'll start venturing into the $$$$$ lens areas. For example, a 200mm f/2.8 lens is $800. The 200mm f/2.0 lens is $5,200!

 

[TheGoofster]

I just want to say thanks to everyone for your great posts.
I have to go out for a while right now (my son has a basketball game, and I want to get some shots of that as well - at least this will be outside in the sun), but when I come back, I'll be going back over them and start trying to put into practice what many of you have said.

Unfortunately I won't be able to get a new lens any time soon. Getting the camera itself (with the extra lens) has pretty much taken care of my next 4 birthdays and Christmases. So unless I find a way of stashing away a few bucks here and there, I'll just have to learn to use what I have to the best that I can.

Please keep up with the great posts. So much to learn, and to put into practice.

 

[zackiedawg]

If keeping the lenses you've got now, then just stick to the basic advice of using shutter priority, set to a minimum of 1/200 or so, and set ISO to 800 or more (or Auto, if auto will go to the higher ISOs as needed - read the manual, as some cameras limit auto ISO only to about 800 or so, which may not be sufficient. Don't worry as much about a little noise or grain in the shot at ISO1600 - blurred streaks for feet and hands looks a lot worse and less usable than some graininess but a perfectly focused and sharp subject!

Keep the lens in mind for the future - the biggest aperture you can afford (the smaller F numbers being the goal) that has the distance you need.

 

[disneyboy2003]

Unfortunately I won't be able to get a new lens any time soon. Getting the camera itself (with the extra lens) has pretty much taken care of my next 4 birthdays and Christmases. So unless I find a way of stashing away a few bucks here and there, I'll just have to learn to use what I have to the best that I can.

If you can squeeze in an extra $100, then that 50mm f/1.8 lens is a great value!

Ask your spouse: This lens will let me take better pictures of our kids. Aren't our kids worth it?

(just kidding...don't put your spouse in that situation)

 

[YesDear]

If you can squeeze in an extra $100, then that 50mm f/1.8 lens is a great value!

Ask your spouse: This lens will let me take better pictures of our kids. Aren't our kids worth it?

(just kidding...don't put your spouse in that situation)

What do you mean don't put your spouse in that situation. How do you think I got most of my stuff that she knows about!

I actually got my 10.5 for Christmas last year because she said if I was going to buy it anyway, she might as well get credit for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[handicap18]

The D5000 will not auto focus with the 50mm f/1.8 AF lens. That lens does not have a focus motor, nor does the D5000. This body will only be able to use it with manual focus.

Next cheepest lens would be either the Nikon 35mm f/1.8 AF-S (though it might not be long enough, but is under $200) or the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 or Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 (both run around $430).


For the lenses your currently using, bump the ISO to as high as it goes (ISO 3200 IIRC) to get the fasted shutter speed you can. Worry about noise reduction in post processing. Your better off getting a noisy shot than a blurry shot.

 

[wenrob]

I can't add a lot to what's already been said but I do notice that on some of the blurrier pics your focus is actually locking on the ceiling. You might want to pre focus where your subject is going to be then fire off a burst of shots as they start to jump. You should get a few keepers that way once you have faster glass. And I'm with GrillMouster, action shots don't have to be perfectly in focus, a little blur adds to the feeling of action.

eta: Well, I guess I don't have anything to add I missed where Disneyboy said essentially the same thing...

 

[NateNLogansDad]

The D5000 will not auto focus with the 50mm f/1.8 AF lens. That lens does not have a focus motor, nor does the D5000. This body will only be able to use it with manual focus.

Next cheepest lens would be either the Nikon 35mm f/1.8 AF-S (though it might not be long enough, but is under $200) or the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 or Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 (both run around $430).


For the lenses your currently using, bump the ISO to as high as it goes (ISO 3200 IIRC) to get the fasted shutter speed you can. Worry about noise reduction in post processing. Your better off getting a noisy shot than a blurry shot.

Yep, you are right You'd think that I'd know that since I have the same camera! I still don't know how to tell if the motor is in the lens or not. When I picked up the 35mm 1.8 yesterday I had to ask the girl working there. After we went to 3 other sales people I just went broght the camera in so we would know for sure. They do have a 15% restocking fee and I wasn't about to pay $30 for something I never even used once! Thanks for the catch!

 

[My2Girls66]

I used my 35mm 1.8 at my DD's last cheer comp with decent results. I was near the floor and did some cropping afterwards. I was using a D80, manual, f/2.2, 1/500, 1600 ISO. It sells for $200ish and will autofocus on your camera.
untouched

cropped only

 

[Pugrpooh]

If you're going to be a little further away from the action, then you can try using an 85mm f/1.8 lens for a little less than $400, as suggested by Frantasmic. You can also try the 100mm f/2.0 lens for $450.

Unfortunately, if you need more focal length PLUS large aperture, you'll start venturing into the $$$$$ lens areas. For example, a 200mm f/2.8 lens is $800. The 200mm f/2.0 lens is $5,200!

Thanks for the advice but I'm an Olympian, not a Canikon. I do have a 25mm f/2.8, so with my 2x crop factor, that's a 50mm equivalent. I think I would have to do a lot of cropping if I used this lens. I also have a 50mm f/1.8 OM mount, but it's only manual focus and I haven't had very many keepers when I use it.

I may take the 50mm and play around with it just to get the practice and see what I come up with. Class is Thursday night so I may be posting some pics after that!