Going to WDW alone...

[eliza61]

Since I have to save all year long for vacations.. in a sense, the kids do have to earn it as that money can always be used for something else. Family vacations around here are NOT a given, they are a reward. And no, they havent been horrible. But we are trying to get the kids to respect each other and their home and have responsibilities.. and doing so you earn special things.. LIKE a nice vacation.

Bravo!! Has anyone been looking around lately. The level of out and out ill mannered, disrespectful and rude children I see lately is enough to make my blood boil. My son graduated from 8th grade last friday. Parents were letting their little "darlings" heely across the auditorium floor, chat away on the cell phone, one kid was sitting in the auditorium with a full Mcdonalds meal. All the while the parents are there carrying on a conversation like a day at the park. I was livid. I told my younger son if I ever caught him rollerblading after I told him to sit down not only would he not have heelies, he wouldn't have legs to stand on after I got through with him.

I totally agree and tell my kids all the time NO Where does it say I have to give you a family vacation. You will not act like park apes in my house, disrespect each other and generally be a little beast. Period.

I'm am so sick of what passes as acceptable behaviour nowadays.

 

[goofy4tink]

Since I have to save all year long for vacations.. in a sense, the kids do have to earn it as that money can always be used for something else. Family vacations around here are NOT a given, they are a reward. And no, they havent been horrible. But we are trying to get the kids to respect each other and their home and have responsibilities.. and doing so you earn special things.. LIKE a nice vacation.

Can I ask how old the kids are? Just curious. I was the eldest of 4...and the only girl. There is 18 months between my first brother and myself, then 18 months between him and brother number 2. youngest brother is 10 yrs younger than I am. Well, can I tell you what our house was like? It was crazed...we were always bickering. Rides in the car?? Oh man.....it was always..he got to sit next to the window the last time..why do I always have to sit in the middle...he's touching me..tell her to leave me alone!!! That sort of bickering is absolutely normal. But, when my parents told us to knock it off, we knocked it off..plain and simple.
We all knew our parents had certain expectations..they weren't hard to fulfill. If we didn't do what was expected, there were repercussions. That's life.

I would almost be tempted to show this thread to the kids....let them see how many other parents agree with your stance. It might be a wakeup call. If they are old enough, a family meeting might be in order. It could be a 'this is what I need from you...and this is what you can expect from me' type thing. If they neglect to follow through, then they know what to expect.

You know, I realize that in this day and age, corporal punishment is frowned upon. But I have to say that a healthy dose of fear is a great motivator. I know that I never, NEVER, put a cigarette in my mouth, not once. Why? I was terrified of what my parents would do if they found out. By the time it wouldn't have mattered what my parents thought, I was old enough to realize what a bad idea it is to smoke. Now, understand, while my parents were not adverse to spanking our dear little bums, we were not beaten. We realized the consequences of our actions....if we decided that we would take our chances, then so be it. And none of us are any worse for it. My dd, now 14, has had her bum swatted....at the age of 3 or so. Still in diapers, but it got the message across..you do not run into the street (after 4 verbal warnings). Yes, I know..remove the child from the danger. It wasn't all that dangerous a situation..it was merely showing her I would follow through. She knows now that if I say 'x' will happen if you do 'y'.

So...have that meeting with the family...let them know what the repercussions will be..if they are they are old enough.

 

[Dorisk3]

To the OP- I found this thread very interesting- and kudos to you for following through on threats (something I personally am not the best at!).

I am in the minority here that think that you shouldn't go on that particular vacation (but all for taking a vacation for yourself if you can and if you want to- at a different time). Maybe everyone here is so disney nuts and salivating to be at Disney again that they aren't looking at the situation clearly. Again, I think it is excellent to follow through on threats- but it seems like taking a whole vacation away for typical kids behavior (albeit annoying behavior) seems a bit rough.

I was thinking about the punishment of not doing things, not going places, and I'm wondering if that's not really working for you. It seems like the kids are still pretty much doing things you don't want them to. Maybe taking away the once in a while trips, etc. isn't really enough- and maybe more the immediate taking away of priviledges like tv, video games, computer might work a little bit more- because it's in the here and now and more concrete. I find my kids (which are younger than yours- so it might be different)- respond to things that effect them immediatly better than things in the future or things that they really haven't done yet (like a school event).

Anyway, keep up the good work- out of all the jobs I've done- parenting is definetly the hardest- even harder trying to raise good responsible adults that can take care of themselves as you are trying to show them. Good luck with you decision!

 

[CowboyCO]

I can't see tying a vacation to family/household chores. They are unrelated. Household chores are the responsibility of each family member and there can be consequences for not doing them (In our family). Sometimes we will throw a reward out there as a goal (If everyone keeps bedrooms clean every day for two weeks and we'll all go to the zoo).

When it comes to major stuff, I don't know. Plus, leaving them all at home and going on your own could drive a wedge into your relationship. They will not care anymore and will be even more rebellious. There really isn't a lesson to be learned by you going and leaving them. Now, if your kids vandalized the neighbors garage, maybe you yank the vacation, but I still wouldn't go on my own.

Again my 2 cents.

 

[magicalfoursome]

I can't see tying a vacation to family/household chores. They are unrelated. Household chores are the responsibility of each family member and there can be consequences for not doing them (In our family). Sometimes we will throw a reward out there as a goal (If everyone keeps bedrooms clean every day for two weeks and we'll all go to the zoo).

When it comes to major stuff, I don't know. Plus, leaving them all at home and going on your own could drive a wedge into your relationship. They will not care anymore and will be even more rebellious. There really isn't a lesson to be learned by you going and leaving them. Now, if your kids vandalized the neighbors garage, maybe you yank the vacation, but I still wouldn't go on my own.

Again my 2 cents.

I agree with your 2 cents. The punishment does not fit the crime. Going alone to Disney and showing them pictures will build up resentment and if they feel they can not live up to your expectations then why bother trying? My DD13 and DS10 bicker and sometimes it drives me crazy. I take away privledges but I also understand that it is normal for siblings to argue. Having respectful children is attainable - having perfect children is not. They are people with feelings and not robots. People always seem to notice when kids are disrespectful but not when they are kind. Not all kids are brats.

 

[AmyA]

I don't think it's wrong to go by yourself in general. I've done ladies meets and have gone to WDW without my kids a couple times. But it was planned that way; my kids never thought they were going.

I think in your situation, going without your kids might not be a good thing. They DID think they were going. I think making them stay home for the reasons you gave is a little extreme. There are certain behaviors that I think would warrant such a punishment, but excessive bickering and failure to do chores aren't good enough reasons. JMHO.

ITA with this. I have also been to WDW with just my DH (twice!) and with just my girlfriends (twice!) but my DDs, who are now 7 and almost 13, always knew about it ahead of time and never thought they were going.

I'm not trying to tell you how to parent, it just seems like taking away a family vacation is way too harsh for normal (but, yes, unacceptable) kid behavior. Now if they had failed classes, gotten suspended, were fistfighting, throwing f-bombs at you when you asked them to do something, etc, then heck yeah--jerk that vacation! But that would also indicate something major was going on and some sort of intervention (medical, counseling, whatever) was necessary and then no one should be vacationing.

For the 'normal' behavior you are talking about it doesn't even seem like removing a vacation is a logical natural consequence. For example, if they throw their backpacks (that you worked your **s off to buy!) on the floor then I'd be taking that backpack away and making them figure out their own way to get their stuff to school. Then there would be a system for 'earning' the backpack back (or in my 13 yo's case, she wouldn't have one until she could purchase one with her own money). In our house, when a bedroom is not cleaned in the allotted amount of time, then anything that is left not picked up and put away properly at the end of that time is removed from the room, period. No excuses, no begging to keep it, nothing. Then we set up a system (extra chores, a certain # of days without bickering, etc) to earn back one item at a time. It's hard work, but we've only had to do that once with each of our kids. And it's a natural consequence for not cleaning their room.

I'm not saying that this way is the best way or that you shouldn't stick to your guns. I just think that parents can be firm, have follow-through, and provide consequences without seeming (at least to the child) to be vindictive. To me, if you go on this vacation, even if you are in the "right", to your kids it will seem like way more than normal "mean" parenting (and I think all kids think parents that provide consequences/follow-through are "mean") and will seem vindictive...maybe for many years to come.

 

[CowboyCO]

I had not read all the thread, but now that I have and read the OPs comments about not coloring Easter eggs because they didn't clean their rooms and stcking to their guns about rewards, I have to say that what you are doing isn't working and it is not motivating.

You have taken away fun things before (such as the Easter egg coloring) and the behavior (or work ethic) didn't change, so taking away Disney isn't going to change anything either.

I remember with my son when he was about 7, that every time he left something out that he cared about, I took it and put it in storage. He knew if he left his stuff laying out all over the house, he would lose it for a period of time. Within about two-three weeks, nearly everything he loved was in a closet. Baseballs, footballs, bikes, his Disney gameboy, his MP3, -- all of it. He was defeated, sullen and unfortunately, it wasn't in him to remember at the point where he dropped something, that it needs to be put away. He wanted to remember so badly, but his impulsiveness put it immediately out of his mind. It wasn't working. He felt he was a total failure and worthless kid. So, I sat down with him and we negotiated a truce. If he left something out, rather than nag him each and every time, we would take a short break during the afternoon or evening, grab a basket and he would go gather up his stuff all at once. He was happy to do it and the parent/kid relationship became much stronger. He really appreciated not being in trouble multiple times every day. Now, he isn't in trouble at all, is happy to pick up after himself and he gets great praise for doing it. He's not perfect and neither am I , but the constant battle are history.

IMO-- if it isn't working, then there is nothing to be learned. It only serves to demoralize the kid, make the parent/child relationship adversarial and the chores still don't get done. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[WriteDisney]

If my Mom had told me, when I was young, that I couldn't go on our Disney vacation because I wasn't behaving, BUT that she would be leaving as planned, I probably would still be angry to this day! That seems like a hurtful thing.

Totally agree. Maybe a solo trip to somewhere else, a friend or other family members, to recoup a bit.

And then when you get back... Maybe create some kind of system where each time they do something right they get points towards a trip, when they reach a certain number of points, they can go. I don't know. Something like that, positive reinforcement, seems like it might be worth a shot.

 

[WriteDisney]

I had not read all the thread, but now that I have and read the OPs comments about not coloring Easter eggs because they didn't clean their rooms and stcking to their guns about rewards, I have to say that what you are doing isn't working and it is not motivating.

You have taken away fun things before (such as the Easter egg coloring) and the behavior (or work ethic) didn't change, so taking away Disney isn't going to change anything either.

I remember with my son when he was about 7, that every time he left something out that he cared about, I took it and put it in storage. He knew if he left his stuff laying out all over the house, he would lose it for a period of time. Within about two-three weeks, nearly everything he loved was in a closet. Baseballs, footballs, bikes, his Disney gameboy, his MP3, -- all of it. He was defeated, sullen and unfortunately, it wasn't in him to remember at the point where he dropped something, that it needs to be put away. He wanted to remember so badly, but his impulsiveness put it immediately out of his mind. It wasn't working. He felt he was a total failure and worthless kid. So, I sat down with him and we negotiated a truce. If he left something out, rather than nag him each and every time, we would take a short break during the afternoon or evening, grab a basket and he would go gather up his stuff all at once. He was happy to do it and the parent/kid relationship became much stronger. He really appreciated not being in trouble multiple times every day. Now, he isn't in trouble at all, is happy to pick up after himself and he gets great praise for doing it. He's not perfect and neither am I , but the constant battle are history.

IMO-- if it isn't working, then there is nothing to be learned. It only serves to demoralize the kid, make the parent/child relationship adversarial and the chores still don't get done. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Not only is that a refreshing way to think about things, but your story was very inspirational.

 

[FireDancer]

I have been to Disney by myself a lot. I had an AP when I lived in Florida and have gone back down now for the 2006 and 2008 Marathon Weekends. I LOVE Disney solo. You can do what you want when you want and eat what you want when you want. You can ride a ride 3 or 4 times in a row or just go to a park to do the one or two things you like and move on.

As far as the kids go, it is none of my business. I think just do what you think is right. I can tell you that once when I was maybe 13 I was not allowed to join the family on a day trip for something I did. I completely deserved it and do not blame my parents one iota for leaving me behind.

 

[Zuzu03]

I think it's hard for anyone outside of the situation to give too much advice, so I can't really say either way. I'm heading down by myself in November for a conference, but staying on for extra days by myself. Believe it or not my DD - 15 doesn't want to go this time nor does my DH! I'm stunned, but looking forward to some relaxing time alone, and as a previous poster said, eating what and when I want and spending hours in any shop I wander into! When I was studying in France without my husband and daughter I spent a week at Disneyland Paris by myself and met some amazing people who I wouldn't have met had I been with my family. Really, though, it's a decision for you and your husband to make.

 

[hayesktrm]

I don't think the punishment equals the crime either. I can't imagine considering cancelling a family vacation for bad behavior that sounds like normal kid behavior. That would be just as much punishment for me as for them. My kids bicker and I have to nag them to keep their rooms clean, but they are really good kids. Our upcoming vacation is not a reward for them, it's our yearly vacation for all of us to have fun together. I think immediate punishment would work much better, especially if your kids are young. Really, for young kids it is hard to grasp a punishment that is in the future.

Have a great time whatever you decide.

 

[perla75]

I've been reading this thread and I can't help but post a response.

I manage childrens' behaviors as my line of work (I'm a behavior analyst) & I have to say that I think you are pretty much on the right track here, as far as teaching your children about consequences. If children do not come in contact with natural consequences, they will NOT decrease their behavior. That's just a fact. You and your DH set the criteria: FIRST do X, Y, and Z , and THEN you can go to WDW. If you do not stick to your guns and be consistent with your follow-through, than not only will your children not change their behavior, but they will lose a great deal of respect for you as well.

If you don't teach them about consequences now, how are they going to learn when they are older and independent? That it's ok to goof around at work & still expect to receive a paycheck?

I know it seems cruel and harsh, but you are the better mom for sticking to your guns and loving them enough to teach them consequences.

The only things I might change in your plan are: I wouldn't divide up your kids by only taking the younger one-it might cause resentment with the siblings. I would stick to a solo trip (just you). Also, I wouldn't start rubbing it in when you get back from your trip by shoving photos in their faces. Tell them you had a good time & talk about your trip in natural conversation, but I wouldn't go overboard when you get home. My guess is you going without them is punishment enough & they will learn their lesson. The other thing I would suggest is give them a few weeks and (if you can afford it), give them another opportunity to redeem themselves. Plan another vacation & use the same deal with them: "IF you complete X, Y, & Z, THEN you can go to WDW."

The last thing I want to mention is that you have every right to set rules and expectations in your household. What one family might view as minor, another family might view as very important and we should all be respectful that every family operates under different philosophies and rules. The only way I would say that your parenting is not up to par is if you did not follow through on your standards and expectations. As I said earlier, they may be angry now but they will only respect you in the end. Children need consistency and I applaud you & your DH for loving them enough to provide that.

 

[iluvpluto27]

I'm all for teaching children consequences, but I'm sorry taking away their vacation seems like an extreme punishment for the behaviour they're exhibiting.

 

[mickeynut1]

I'm all for teaching children consequences, but I'm sorry taking away their vacation seems like an extreme punishment for the behaviour they're exhibiting.

I have to agree with this, especially since the behavior is just kids being kids, as many other posters have stated. ALL kids bicker, argue, sigh when they're told to do something.....that's all in growing up. I have a DS15 and DS13, and let me tell you.....it doesn't get any better as they get into the teen years . I have yet to find a kid who DOESN'T do these things. Kids go through stages and this, unfortunately, is one of those stages. Even though my kids bicker with each other and don't get along 100% of the time, they are still there for each other when it really matters. And they are both respectful of us and other people, as well their things. We go to Disney every year but my kids don't have to "earn" the right to go. I may be in the minority here, but as far as vacations go, I feel it's mine and DH's responsibility to help create childhood memories for our kids...so as far as "taking away" their vacation as a punishment for (what I consider) "normal" childhood behavior, I would never do that; but that's just me.....as you and your DH need to do what's right for your family. All of us here can give our opinions and say what we would and wouldn't do, but you are the only one who can make the decision that's best for your kids. All I know is I, personally, wouldn't be able to go to Disney alone because I would not be able to enjoy myself without my DH and kids right there with me. Good luck with your decision and I hope you are able to take your Disney trip as a family sometime soon.

 

[hayesktrm]

I have to agree with this, especially since the behavior is just kids being kids, as many other posters have stated. ALL kids bicker, argue, sigh when they're told to do something.....that's all in growing up. I have a DS15 and DS13, and let me tell you.....it doesn't get any better as they get into the teen years . I have yet to find a kid who DOESN'T do these things. Kids go through stages and this, unfortunately, is one of those stages. Even though my kids bicker with each other and don't get along 100% of the time, they are still there for each other when it really matters. And they are both respectful of us and other people, as well their things. We go to Disney every year but my kids don't have to "earn" the right to go. I may be in the minority here, but as far as vacations go, I feel it's mine and DH's responsibility to help create childhood memories for our kids...so as far as "taking away" their vacation as a punishment for (what I consider) "normal" childhood behavior, I would never do that; but that's just me.....as you and your DH need to do what's right for your family. All of us here can give our opinions and say what we would and wouldn't do, but you are the only one who can make the decision that's best for your kids. All I know is I, personally, wouldn't be able to go to Disney alone because I would not be able to enjoy myself without my DH and kids right there with me. Good luck with your decision and I hope you are able to take your Disney trip as a family sometime soon.

ITA. I just told my DD11 about this and her mouth dropped. Like I said earlier, my kids bicker and fight all the time (I had a brother so I am getting paid back for all our bickering growing up). She said that she is so glad we wouldn't do anything like that because vacations are times for bonding. She said on vacation they get along with each other better so it's a good experience for them. I just remember the first time they both asked if they could go on a ride together instead of one parent with one child, the other child with the other parent. I think I almost cried. Now they ride with each other all the time and have a great time. This trip DS15 is going to take his sister to the Magic Kingdom and they'll hang out together while we have a nice dinner. What a great opportunity for the two of them to bond and enjoy each other's company. I know when they get home they'll fight again (normal), but they have those wonderful memories that helped them get closer. BTW, my brother and I fought even worse than my own kids and now we're great friends and we both turned out just fine.

 

[mickeynut1]

ITA. I just told my DD11 about this and her mouth dropped. Like I said earlier, my kids bicker and fight all the time (I had a brother so I am getting paid back for all our bickering growing up). She said that she is so glad we wouldn't do anything like that because vacations are times for bonding. She said on vacation they get along with each other better so it's a good experience for them. I just remember the first time they both asked if they could go on a ride together instead of one parent with one child, the other child with the other parent. I think I almost cried. Now they ride with each other all the time and have a great time. This trip DS15 is going to take his sister to the Magic Kingdom and they'll hang out together while we have a nice dinner. What a great opportunity for the two of them to bond and enjoy each other's company. I know when they get home they'll fight again (normal), but they have those wonderful memories that helped them get closer. BTW, my brother and I fought even worse than my own kids and now we're great friends and we both turned out just fine.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY....even though kids bicker and argue, they turn out fine in the end . Just because they don't constantly agree doesn't mean they haven't learned anything.....they've learned more than we give them credit for. I grew up with 2 older sisters and a younger brother and I remember bickering/fighting all the time....that's life....not always a bed of roses...now as adults we're all very close. Same goes for my two DS's....they are the best of friends at Disney, especially with them being older where they can go together while me and DH shop or just walk around for an hour or so and then meet back up . They are constantly saying to each other "remember on our first trip to Disney when this happened?" or "remember last year we did this?"......that's what life is about.....bonding as a family and making memories.....especially since life's too short . BTW, I see you're a Hoosier....I am, too ( NW Indiana ).

 

[megnsamsgracie]

Okay then maybe I am in the minority but I feel that a vacation is a REWARD and not a given. DH has said that the kids have been getting better the past week. Which is why I am not cancelling the vacation. And I grew up with 2 sisters so I know the bickering firsthand. But I dont feel like the kids should be rewarded with a vacation when they cant cooperate with us.

I know everyone is different by the vast amount of answers here. Since things are getting better with the kids, i am going to hold off on a definite decision but I think the kids need to know I mean business. And maybe I will go by myself for a few days, take my dad down! I have read every post and I do appreciate all of the input. We all raise our kids different and I am thankful that we can all post our opinions without the fighting.

 

[kaffinito]

Okay then maybe I am in the minority but I feel that a vacation is a REWARD and not a given. DH has said that the kids have been getting better the past week. Which is why I am not cancelling the vacation. And I grew up with 2 sisters so I know the bickering firsthand. But I dont feel like the kids should be rewarded with a vacation when they cant cooperate with us.

I know everyone is different by the vast amount of answers here. Since things are getting better with the kids, i am going to hold off on a definite decision but I think the kids need to know I mean business. And maybe I will go by myself for a few days, take my dad down! I have read every post and I do appreciate all of the input. We all raise our kids different and I am thankful that we can all post our opinions without the fighting.

I understand that you want your kids to behave as you expect them to. Good for you! As a kid we had vacations canceled if we didn't do the little things we were supposed to do to, like chores or clean our rooms. It taught us that we had to do what we were supposed to do in order to get a cool trip. It also taught us that if we did not do those little "life" things, then we would not get a reward. Guess what? Neither one of us were scarred, and we both grew up with a good work ethic and the ability to clean up after ourselves!

Good luck! And don't forget, no matter what anyone else on here says, they're your kids - your decision!

 

[Bella O]

The most important advice I got when I had my first child was "Let your no mean no, and your yes mean yes" That means if you say no, you mean it, and you don't change your mind - same thing with yes - if I promise something I never go back on my word. It also embraces the bigger theme of consistency - if you have said something will have such and such consequences, then it is so important to follow through with those consequences - so if you have already said this will happen - if they don't get "their act" together, no WDW - then you must follow through. That being said, I personally find natural consequences tied to the issue work best - if a. doesn't happen, then b doesn't happen - and the younger the child, the closer to the "offense" the consequence occurs the better. For instance two four year olds fighting over a toy - consequence? the toy gets put out in time-out till they can share it properly-or the two kids are separated till they can get along - this worked really well for my two dds that are close in age. As they get older, sometimes it takes longer for the consequence to occur - but by then they get the connection. If my 13yr dd doesn't put away all her clothes and straighten up her room, oh well, I guess then when she wants to go to the mall, I don't "need" to take her. If a consequence isn't working - then try another consequence that will - talking tv away from my kids never worked - they could care less. It would have been futile to try to keep using this as a deterrent, when it wasn't working. This is really hard stuff - but the larger issue here is the consistency - which is sorely lacking in our society - most folks of my age (30-40) seem to want to be their child's friend -w/o any limits or boundaries. At the same time, it is also important to teach and model for our kids grace, and forgiveness, and a respect not driven by punishment but out of genuine respect and love.