Going to the poor house:2015 Inusrance premiums

[Lucky4me]

My experiences in the hospital are opposite of Eliza's experiences.


There is no way any decent hospital would dismiss a chemo patient with a dangerously low WBC, indigent or not. I find it hard to believe any hospital would and if they did and that patient got sick and died because of it, they could have a huge lawsuit on their hands.

Over the period of a year in and out of treatment for brain cancer and a stem cell transplant where he was quarantined a month, we never met anyone who was treated "less" because of their inability to pay. The biggest worry of everyone we met (and ourselves) was how we were going to pay when it was all over, not that we wouldn't receive top notch care while at the hospital.

I got some good advice from a social worker about halfway through dh's treatment. She said to toss the bills in a drawer and deal with them when it was all over. Best advice ever because #1- I didn't have the money to send at that time and #2- the hospital ended up paying most of our portion anyway.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

get no argument from me Gumbo. I don't like the ACA. I'm just not pretending that what we had was great.

today's election day. voter turnout in pa is below 50%. so obviously we haven't hit rock bottom.

So basically the next 2-4 years is looking like the last 5-10 years.

And once again, I've not heard one person say that our system is broken (ok maybe you and Ocean Annie) every one else is simply screaming that their premiums went up.

health care cost has risen over the last 20 years exponentially. in 2012 it was some thing ridiculous like almost 20% of the country's budget. and all of a sudden NOW is unsustainable??? seriously??? are you kidding me. 15 years ago at that rate of explosion it was unsustainable. I stand by what I said, the reason no one cared in 1999 and 2000 was because it effected poor folks.
Now that the middle class is getting suck in, NOW it's some how unsustainable?

Health Care Costs as percent of GDP vs Year

Like I said, I want this mess resolve, and no the aca isn't the solution, it's probably going to accelerate this disaster, but neither is simply going back to 2012.

Accelerate the disaster is probably a good way to put it. This whole deal has been my biggest financial concern for about a decade now. My kids were born in 2000 and 2005. Out of pocket for #2 was roughly 10 times #1. That was a Hell of a wakeup call. Someday, we will have to get to the root of the problem & face it head on. This nonsense of simply shifting the costs around without dealing with the source of the problem is just that - nonsense. And watching politicians pronounce the insurance companies as "the enemy" while crafting a trillion dollar bill that primarily benefits the very "enemy" we're supposed to be "fighting" has me fighting mad. They're all in bed together & I'm sick of it.

 

[Dakota731]

It looks like the American people have spoken and have made it very clear that they don't want Obama care. Of course polls before it was enacted showed that the majority of citizens were against it to begin with, but it was rammed down our throats without anyone even knowing what was in the bill.

 

[Gracie09]

I will have to disagree with your assessment. But since we are not permitted to get political on this board leave it at this - there are many reasons the elections yesterday went the way they did. To focus on one law that was passed before the previous Presidential Election is small minded and cherry picking.

 

[supersnoop]

The problem is that, more often than not, what people say they want and what they describe they want are two different things. Locally, we experienced that with zoning. People said they wanted larger lots with more space between houses. Then they went through an exercise where they grouped all residential close together around shopping and employment centers. "I don't want higher density, but I want a close together, walkable area where I can live, work and shop."

It's the same with the affordable care act. People don't want "obamacare" but they do want to keep older children on their plans, they want to remove caps on lifetime maximum payouts, and they want all those uninsured people who get care in the emergency room to pay their fair share. The current law is frustrating because it was a compromise. I once heard "compromise" defined as "a solution in which neither party gets what they want." Seems appropriate here.

 

[Muushka]

It looks like the American people have spoken and have made it very clear that they don't want Obama care. Of course polls before it was enacted showed that the majority of citizens were against it to begin with, but it was rammed down our throats without anyone even knowing what was in the bill.

I really hope that the idea of repealing the law is shelved. It will only cause more division.

There are ways to improve it, which would stand a much better chance than repealing it.

 

[Muushka]

Sorry Muush, I don't know. We came in when they were finished chemo, about two weeks in (for us) they were kicking them out. I can't imagine he mistakenly thought he had insurance but I simply don't know and no one really discuss much about finances except to complain about lack of inexpensive parking. it cost me almost 20 bucks a day to park. One of the biggest guilts that I carry is that I quarreled with the old guy about visiting him 2-3 times a day. It was costing well over 150 bucks a week just to park.
Let just say that we had full insurance and were stunned by some of the charges we got socked with.
Something as simple as incorrectly coding a prescription can send a red flag saying that prescription was not covered.

For example the old guy needed a drug called neupogen. After chemo it's used to help the person get their white blood cell count up. but because it is a "support" drug and does not directly fight cancer, guess what. It was not covered. Now yes maybe if I had dissected his policy I could have found out what drugs where or where not covered, probably not since I probably wouldn't have known what to even ask, but with a husband fighting for his life, 2 kids to try and take care of plus still having to work plus trying to keep up with his oncologist and myrid other doctors. well you get the picture. Neuprogen cost 100 dollars a shot. He need one shot for 21 days. the first time around.

So I'm sure he had an id card, like I said every hospital I've ever been in, before you even get a tissue they ask you for your id card. Heck, when you go to the drug store minute clinic the first thing you feel out is a form agreeing to pay or a credit card so I can't imagine he was allowed to go 3-4 weeks without some thing.

while I don't think anyone should be forced to accept anyone. the point is they did accept him, then stripped him of his immune system and then kicked him out. that is flat out inhuman.
maybe he'll have a better chance of he goes in and says he has just come back for an ebola stricken region. sorry but where not talking about some one with a head cold. It's ironic that they make the quest and nurses wear face mask and coveralls to prevent infection to the patient, yet kicking a guy out into a major city is perfectly ok.

I can't even try to understand what the hospital did. On the surface it sounds unconscionable. I'm sure that you being in the midst of exactly what they (the patient and his partner) were going through must have been very difficult to swallow. I wonder how it turned out and if he was able to receive treatments from another facility. Sad situation.

If your 'Old guy' is anything like my 'Old guy', he probably chuckled to himself and thought how much he loves his frugal wife.

 

[eliza61]

It looks like the American people have spoken and have made it very clear that they don't want Obama care. Of course polls before it was enacted showed that the majority of citizens were against it to begin with, but it was rammed down our throats without anyone even knowing what was in the bill.

I wish I had you optimism Dakota LOL. nothing is going to change in the next four years unfortunately.

no group has a super majority. so any attempts to totally repeal the law are pretty much pissing in the wind.

Sadly the American people have spoken quite a number of times
Vietnam war
War in Iraq
Stupid TSA regulations

so the people speaking and the people in power listening are two different things.

Sweetie, the Dow surges pretty much after every election. The Dow really doesn't care about who is in charge, it doesn't like uncertainty.

 

[eliza61]

You are right, it wasn't just Obamacare, it was illegal immigration, the handling of ISIS and the Ebola crisis, jobs, taxes just to name a few. The DOW is surging now that investors have hope that pro-business legislation can be a part of our country's future.

And to say that this thread is not political is nonsense. It has been partisan through and through.

LOL
Wow you really stretch.

Sweetie, the dow had it's best year in 2013 surging ahead faster than 1995, that was with obamacare in full effect. Every body and their mama who had a 401k made a boat load of money. average mutual funds saw 15% rise. Index funds grew by 29%

Wall street hates uncertainty. retirement accounts for the most part have rebounded since the great screw up of 2008. October they dropped down, the first of the month brings recovery.

NEVER, EVER try and tie your investments to what political party is in power.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I can't even try to understand what the hospital did. On the surface it sounds unconscionable. I'm sure that you being in the midst of exactly what they (the patient and his partner) were going through must have been very difficult to swallow. I wonder how it turned out

I know that that was a very difficult time for Eliza, and it's a subject she's clearly very passionate about. Patients' families often do get close to eachother when they spend countless hours together in waiting rooms during long illnesses. But complexities of care can change from day to day, and even hour to hour, and there are very often extenuating circumstances to many cases, each of which is wholly unique. When you do have privy to medical records, you realize that not everything is always as it seems (and not everyone understands enough about certain things and why they are a certain way, etc). People, naturally, want to portray themselves and their circumstances in the best light to anyone who will listen. But someone else has the job of making unpleasant decisions based on facts.

IME of thirty years taking care of patients with these types of critical illnesses requiring life saving measures, I'll just say this. I have never seen anyone turned away for their inability to pay. (If I did, I don't know that I could have stayed on the job.) No, care teams and social workers go into overtime to get the patient what they need, generally acting swiftly to get the patient enrolled in state sponsored medicaid and other programs which enable them to go forward with treatment. Now this is not to say that everyone always gets treatment. I have seen patients turned down for care for a variety of reasons, but ability to pay is not one of them. (And not going to argue about it, just wanted to share my expeience here. And obviously, this may not be the case at every hospital. YMMV)

 

[rigs32]

I just want government to get out of the way and get back to strong work ethics, entrepreneurship, saving for a rainy day and the principles that made this country great.

But the industry and jobs that created the middle class were based mainly in manufacturing, agriculture, industries that needed bodies to do the work - skilled or unskilled. We now have a service and IT based economy. Those well paying jobs have been automated. We haven't adjusted the needs and expectations of out economy to take those types of changes into account.

I think there is a continuum between the welfare scam artist and a successful business person. And so many of out political leaders have never struggled financially to understand what it's like. Raising the minimum wage helps unskilled workers, but what about college grads who are trying to enter the workforce but finding jobs in their field don't pay enough to support them? It's not a black and white conversation but that's what the state of politics in this country has made it.

 

[eliza61]

Sweetie, don't you worry about my investments. My husband and I both retired in our early 50's with NO GOVERNMENT pension, only IRAs that WE contributed to, put 3 kids through college (and one helped through med school) with no student loans. I must add we each paid our own way through college as well with no GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. Our kids have worked since age 16 and contributed to their education as well as their individual expenses.
We are extremely blessed but I won't take away the fact that we both worked two (my husband sometimes three) jobs to get where we are. It didn't come from taking money from someone else, only hard work and diligent saving. We are very strictly middle class (and not on the high end either) so I get a little upset when people are dependent and don't even try to put in the effort.

I do! I have faith in the American people, faith in small business, faith in hard work and faith in the Lord, so it strikes a nerve when posters act like this country has the worst healthcare system in the world. I just want government to get out of the way and get back to strong work ethics, entrepreneurship, saving for a rainy day and the principles that made this country great.

Oh I'm not worried about your investments, I'm simply correcting your mistaken assumption that the market is some how tied to a political party.
Lol that's like saying the price of beef is tied to the next Hobbits movie.
For which I'm happy it's not, after the last 25 years my net worth would be totally different.

Not sure what government assistance your taking about so can't comment there. Ok so you worked? Congratulations So did/does just about everyone else on these boards. Again not understanding the significance. Or is the correlation supposed to be that those who benefited from the ACA some how don't work? not sure I would agree with that either.


I'm working, private chemical company, private pension, my dh owned his own business, provided for his family both when he was alive and after he died. I'll retire in a few years. Again not sure what that has to do with the price is anything? While I don't like the ACA, I'm about to retire. If and when I do, I will certainly see if it benefits me as my employee retirement health insurance sucks on a nuclear magnitude. I will also take my social security and my medicare. If that what you consider government assistance, hey I'm perfectly ok with that. I worked for it, I'm using it.


No one said this health care is the worst. It's like every thing else, it's based on cash (or insurance) if you've got it, it's great. If you don't have it well that's another story. Just like education. Yeah we have some of the best schools in the planet IF you can afford the tuition. If you're stuck in the lousy public education system, well once again "Greatest" is no longer an adjective that applies

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Oh I'm not worried about your investments, I'm simply correcting your mistaken assumption that the market is some how tied to a political party. Lol that's like saying the price of beef is tied to the next Hobbits movie.

Hey, you never know....

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kjh2110/the-10-most-bizarre-correlations?s=mobile

I knew all those kids swarming the ice cream truck were up to something...

 

[Muushka]

I know that that was a very difficult time for Eliza, and it's a subject she's clearly very passionate about. Patients' families often do get close to eachother when they spend countless hours together in waiting rooms during long illnesses. But complexities of care can change from day to day, and even hour to hour, and there are very often extenuating circumstances to many cases, each of which is wholly unique. When you do have privy to medical records, you realize that not everything is always as it seems (and not everyone understands enough about certain things and why they are a certain way, etc). People, naturally, want to portray themselves and their circumstances in the best light to anyone who will listen. But someone else has the job of making unpleasant decisions based on facts.

IME of thirty years taking care of patients with these types of critical illnesses requiring life saving measures, I'll just say this. I have never seen anyone turned away for their inability to pay. (If I did, I don't know that I could have stayed on the job.) No, care teams and social workers go into overtime to get the patient what they need, generally acting swiftly to get the patient enrolled in state sponsored medicaid and other programs which enable them to go forward with treatment. Now this is not to say that everyone always gets treatment. I have seen patients turned down for care for a variety of reasons, but ability to pay is not one of them. (And not going to argue about it, just wanted to share my expeience here. And obviously, this may not be the case at every hospital. YMMV)

I agree, Pea.

 

[Dakota731]

But the industry and jobs that created the middle class were based mainly in manufacturing, agriculture, industries that needed bodies to do the work - skilled or unskilled.

Exactly, and a lot of manufacturing companies have gone overseas to avoid the extremely high taxation for business here in the US. My husband's company, a Fortune 500 company did exactly that, another reason to have government get out of the way.

And so many of out political leaders have never struggled financially to understand what it's like.

Some have never even held a job in the private sector and have no idea how a small business works.

I'm simply correcting your mistaken assumption that the market is some how tied to a political party.

Sweetie, you don't need to teach me how the stock market works, I have done quite well in the market. Anyone knows that investors are hoping for a more business-friendly approach from Washington in terms of taxes and regulations. Historically, Wall Street thrives with a Republican-controlled Congress and a Democratic president. Maybe you should go back to watching your Hobbits.

 

[eliza61]

Exactly, and a lot of manufacturing companies have gone overseas to avoid the extremely high taxation for business here in the US. My husband's company, a Fortune 500 company did exactly that, another reason to have government get out of the way.



Some have never even held a job in the private sector and have no idea how a small business works.


Sweetie, you don't need to teach me how the stock market works, I have done quite well in the market. Anyone knows that investors are hoping for a more business-friendly approach from Washington in terms of taxes and regulations. Historically, Wall Street thrives with a Republican-controlled Congress and a Democratic president. Maybe you should go back to watching your Hobbits.

And once again you get a big " what does that have to do with the price of corn"



Yippee your doing well. You, me and 50 million other people. So? The fact that the stock market has surged during the last 3 years makes your statement invalid.

I will go back to boglehead.org though

 

[CanBeGrumpy]

Americans are the most over-tested, over-treated, over-medicated people in the world (I may be exaggerating, but if we aren't the worst we are very close). Other countries simply do not practice medicine the way we do in the US. I believe I read a statistic that claimed that at least 1/3 of all the medical tests ordered in the US are unnecessary and even harmful when they lead to even MORE testing that is unnecessary.

If people attempted to live healthy life styles and took more responsibility for their health instead of relying on doctors and pills constantly, we would be a much healthier nation and I believe we could get our out-of-control insurance issues back in check. This is totally my opinion, but I am basing it on fact. I apologize if I'm not even in line with the topic of this thread, I just felt like venting.

 

[morgan98]

Americans are the most over-tested, over-treated, over-medicated people in the world (I may be exaggerating, but if we aren't the worst we are very close). Other countries simply do not practice medicine the way we do in the US. I believe I read a statistic that claimed that at least 1/3 of all the medical tests ordered in the US are unnecessary and even harmful when they lead to even MORE testing that is unnecessary.

If people attempted to live healthy life styles and took more responsibility for their health instead of relying on doctors and pills constantly, we would be a much healthier nation and I believe we could get our out-of-control insurance issues back in check. This is totally my opinion, but I am basing it on fact. I apologize if I'm not even in line with the topic of this thread, I just felt like venting.

I 100% agree with this. This is what I was saying, that we want every drug available as cheaply as possible and it want the most extensive and best diagnostic treatment. We also are very impatient. Have a sore throat or a cough? Can't make a doctor's appointment, need to show up at an urgent care or an emergency room. God forbid you try to let something run it's course.

We ignore our diets and other signs of health problems but want a cheap simple solution. While this is not the cause of all of the pricing issues, IMO this is a big part of it.

I am first generation Italian (my mom came to America in her early teens). I have spent summers in Italy, and even now as a 44 year old adult probably spend 4 weeks a year in Italy, sometimes visiting relatives, sometimes on vacation. While I am not saying their health system is the answer, I can say their treatment is less invasive and they are much more open to natural remedies and let nature run its course.

And their are tons of old Italian woman and men in every village, so this is not impacting their life expectancy...

 

[Muushka]

Americans are the most over-tested, over-treated, over-medicated people in the world (I may be exaggerating, but if we aren't the worst we are very close). Other countries simply do not practice medicine the way we do in the US. I believe I read a statistic that claimed that at least 1/3 of all the medical tests ordered in the US are unnecessary and even harmful when they lead to even MORE testing that is unnecessary.

If people attempted to live healthy life styles and took more responsibility for their health instead of relying on doctors and pills constantly, we would be a much healthier nation and I believe we could get our out-of-control insurance issues back in check. This is totally my opinion, but I am basing it on fact. I apologize if I'm not even in line with the topic of this thread, I just felt like venting.

Go Grumpy! I agree with you 100%.

People have the test because it's "free".

People want the antibiotic because it's only a $10 copay

People go to the doc because it's only a $20 copay.

How about going back to the good old days? Major Medical type of insurance where you were reimbursed after a certain amount? When you had to actually think about going to see the doctor for something rather than just going because it was just a $20 copay? Or go ahead and have that test because it's free?

How about turning the clocks back to a time when healthcare was similar to auto insurance?
Insurance for the big things only. Not for oil changes and windshield wipers.

 

[supersnoop]

Go Grumpy! I agree with you 100%. People have the test because it's "free". People want the antibiotic because it's only a $10 copay People go to the doc because it's only a $20 copay. How about going back to the good old days? Major Medical type of insurance where you were reimbursed after a certain amount? When you had to actually think about going to see the doctor for something rather than just going because it was just a $20 copay? Or go ahead and have that test because it's free? How about turning the clocks back to a time when healthcare was similar to auto insurance? Insurance for the big things only. Not for oil changes and windshield wipers.

So true. We went to the emergency room when my wife broke her ankle. A lady and her son came in because he had a spider bite. She wanted to make sure it wasn't poisonous. Yes, a spider bite in the ER.

But, there is an option like you mention. I've been on a high deductible health plan for 7 years now. I pay for every visit, prescription, and treatment until I'm out $4k. It makes you realize how much medical care actually costs.