Going to the poor house:2015 Inusrance premiums

[Dakota731]

people were literally dying due to lack of medical care

This is a liberal urban myth. My daughter treats dozens of uninsured people every day in the ER at a huge city hospital. She has cancer, renal, diabetic and many other chronic patients who get the SAME care with the same top notch doctors as those who have insurance.

Many more people die waiting for specialists in countries with socialized medicine. In 2013 the average wait time to see a specialist in Canada was 8.6 weeks, versus 18.5 days in the United States in 2014. In the United States, fewer than 10% of patients wait more than two months to see a specialist versus 41% in Canada, 34% in Norway, 31% in Sweden, and 28% in France. Consider the recent British controversy over a cancer patient who tried to get an appointment with a specialist, only to have it canceled—48 times. More than 1 million Britons must wait for some type of care, with 200,000 in line for longer than six months.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm not gleeful about any of this mess for anyone.

ETA: If you mean something like chickens coming home to roost, no I'm not gleeful about that either. I wish it never would have happened. But that ship has long sailed.

Dang.


I was not calling you gleeful in anyway. I was refering to a completely different poster as gleeful.

 

[eliza61]

This is a liberal urban myth. My daughter treats dozens of uninsured people every day in the ER at a huge city hospital. She has cancer, renal, diabetic and many other chronic patients who get the SAME care with the same top notch doctors as those who have insurance.

Many more people die waiting for specialists in countries with socialized medicine. In 2013 the average wait time to see a specialist in Canada was 8.6 weeks, versus 18.5 days in the United States in 2014. In the United States, fewer than 10% of patients wait more than two months to see a specialist versus 41% in Canada, 34% in Norway, 31% in Sweden, and 28% in France. Consider the recent British controversy over a cancer patient who tried to get an appointment with a specialist, only to have it canceled—48 times. More than 1 million Britons must wait for some type of care, with 200,000 in line for longer than six months.

Hogwash!! I was involved in two lawsuits from my husbands hospital when he was fighting leukemia. they released chemo patients every darn day!!

Cancer centers of America doesn't even let you through the door without verifying how you are going to pay and they run all those wonderful commercials about how they help the worst of the worst. they need to edit it, we help the worst of the worst with money.

STOP IT!!! YOU KNOW DARN WELL IF YOU HAVE NO MONEY YOU DO NOT SEE THE TOP DOCTORS.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Dang.


I was not calling you gleeful in anyway. I was refering to a completely different poster as gleeful.

Okay.

This is a liberal urban myth. My daughter treats dozens of uninsured people every day in the ER at a huge city hospital. She has cancer, renal, diabetic and many other chronic patients who get the SAME care with the same top notch doctors as those who have insurance.
[/B]

Hogwash!! I was involved in two lawsuits from my husbands hospital when he was fighting leukemia. they released chemo patients every darn day!!

As large as this country is, with it's varied programs you both could be right.

 

[ellochka]

For the second time, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. If you take out homicide and auto deaths, the US is first in life expectancy. And I can't think how OBAMACARE has solved those two issues.

I have already addressed this point. Please go back and read.

Yes, if you twist the numbers to favor US, they will favor us (homicide and auto deaths), and if you adjust the numbers in other ways that favor other countries, like smoking, drinking, suicides, and consumption of certain traditional carcinogenic substances, then they look even better. Either you adjust for all things that are not related to healthcare, or you don't adjust at all. What Forbes has done is cherrypicking of the worst kind.

 

[eliza61]

Okay.





As large as this country is, with it's varied programs you both could be right.

I do have to apologize guys, it is absolutely horrible so I probably sounded nastier than I really am.

So, when you have chemo for leukemia which is a blood cancer. It kills the cancer but it also kills your white blood cells and other blood products. so the patient has virtually no immune system.

Anyhoo since you are in the hospital for 7-8 weeks ( the time it takes to get your natural immune juices going) you get to know the patients and their families.

The guy next to us was gay, very nice man and we became friendly because his partner had the same name as my dh. Well one day during week 3, there was a huge commotion. M was in the hall crying and fighting with the nurses. they were releasing his partner the next day because his insurance refused to pay up for same sex cohabitation. The rest of the families launched a letter campaign writing anyone we could think of. How can you kick out a person who you KNOW is going to get ill and probably die. I felt so bad for the nurses even they were upset.


I totally will work with you guys and support/empthesize with your concerns, they are real and valid. but I beg you, we have got to stop pretending that this type of stuff does not happen and does not happen often. it absolutely goes on.

Ok, I'm deep breathing. I know no one is the enemy but I saw so much stuff over 7 months, and all of it related with the ability to pay.
I met a guy who was about to get charged with child endangerment because his kid was sick and since they wouldn't treat him without insurance (they wanted him to go to temple hospital which I think is the city hospital) he was going to just leave the kid. Now I'm not talking about a kid with a cold, I talking about a kid with a serious life threatening illness.

We have the absolute best childrens hospital on the east coast, I can't imagine how desperate you must be if after begging them to keep treating your kid you seriously contemplate abandoning them to get them better care.

 

[ellochka]

This is a liberal urban myth. My daughter treats dozens of uninsured people every day in the ER at a huge city hospital. She has cancer, renal, diabetic and many other chronic patients who get the SAME care with the same top notch doctors as those who have insurance.
[/B]

Please ask her if a woman with HER2+ metastatic breast cancer can get at least 13 weeks of Herceptin in her ER, and if she can't, where can she get that life-saving drug without insurance. Giving pain meds to uninsured cancer patients in ER is not the way to treat cancer.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm not gleeful but I do stand by the remark. We do not fix anything until the proverbial crap hits the fan.
Education
social security
healthcare.
NOTHING all these things are long term problems that have been put off and put off and put off.

When did we start thinking about the gas crisis? When gasoline started creeping up to 5 dollars a gallon. then all of sudden it was top priority.

When did the American public start thinking it should stop spending like wild and start saving???? uhmmm let me see, oh yeah that was when all heck broke loose in 2008.

So yes, I do think just like addicts we need to hit rock bottom. today's election day. what do you think is going to happen in the next 2 years? I'll bet some ones health care insurance that zippo will get fix.

On the next presidential election, no matter who wins, the losers are going to dig in the trenches.

So no while I am not gleeful and I don't think I used those words. I do think the health care issue needs to hit each and every American before it gets fixed.

How long have we been complaining about social security????? anyone????

You know when social security gets fixed? when a whole generation of seniors stop getting checks.

the last time any thing imo got moving it was after 9/11. That took a attack on the nation and the lost of 3000 souls to shake us out of our collective morass.

What remark? I wasn't talking about you either.

 

[Muushka]

I do have to apologize guys, it is absolutely horrible so I probably sounded nastier than I really am.

So, when you have chemo for leukemia which is a blood cancer. It kills the cancer but it also kills your white blood cells and other blood products. so the patient has virtually no immune system.

Anyhoo since you are in the hospital for 7-8 weeks ( the time it takes to get your natural immune juices going) you get to know the patients and their families.

The guy next to us was gay, very nice man and we became friendly because his partner had the same name as my dh. Well one day during week 3, there was a huge commotion. M was in the hall crying and fighting with the nurses. they were releasing his partner the next day because his insurance refused to pay up for same sex cohabitation. The rest of the families launched a letter campaign writing anyone we could think of. How can you kick out a person who you KNOW is going to get ill and probably die. I felt so bad for the nurses even they were upset.


I totally will work with you guys and support/empthesize with your concerns, they are real and valid. but I beg you, we have got to stop pretending that this type of stuff does not happen and does not happen often. it absolutely goes on.

Ok, I'm deep breathing. I know no one is the enemy but I saw so much stuff over 7 months, and all of it related with the ability to pay.
I met a guy who was about to get charged with child endangerment because his kid was sick and since they wouldn't treat him without insurance (they wanted him to go to temple hospital which I think is the city hospital) he was going to just leave the kid. Now I'm not talking about a kid with a cold, I talking about a kid with a serious life threatening illness.

We have the absolute best childrens hospital on the east coast, I can't imagine how desperate you must be if after begging them to keep treating your kid you seriously contemplate abandoning them to get them better care.

OK, I can't help it. Didn't this partner know his insurance coverage?
Also, was this at a hospital or at a Cancer Center?

 

[AlohaNow]

Hopping into this thread a bit late.

We have purchased our own health insurance on the open market for eight years. This has allowed us to freely move from state to state and keep the same coverage through the BCBS Blue Card system. Never having to worry about ‘how good’ the insurance package is through a prospective employer, being able to move to new cities without having jobs, and never having to worry about losing a job and going on COBRA. (Never again.) When we started purchasing on our own it was because we had to, but since then we have been employed at places with full benefits, though the health insurance always cost too much compared to our plan that we purchased directly through BCBS. We currently pay $352 a month for a family of four with a $5,000 individual deductible, $10,000 family deductible, and a barely existent Rx plan. With our annual renewal this will rise to $393 a month. I know, cry me a river Oprah, right? Reading this thread makes me feel really lucky to have the plan that we currently do, which I previously thought was rather awful coverage. This thread has been extremely eye opening to say the least with everyone providing their numbers. Thank you all for posting.

When the ACA was first announced we were very excited for these ‘healthcare exchanges’ to open up in each state. We assumed this would force the private insurance companies to compete with each other in order to gain the majority of business. We thought we could get a better plan for less and that costs would fall into line. Wasn’t that supposed to be the purpose after all? Well, when folks who make six figures a year name something as ‘Affordable’ they really don’t know what they’re talking about. All quotes that we received were far and above what we currently pay.

That is because of all the additions as requirements. We do not have maternity on our private plan and now everyone pays for maternity. Which I kind of agree with, as people are going to have babies no matter what. Of course that should be covered. I also agree with pre-existing conditions not being taken into consideration when applying for insurance, as well as the removal of lifetime caps. I should mention that our plan is grandfathered to pre-ACA days, so they cannot add in these things for us and then charge us more. I guess that is why we are still getting our plan for well below what most of you are reporting in.

We’ve had what used to be referred to as ‘catastrophic coverage’ for eight years now, but it is interesting to see that ‘catastrophic’ coverage is now pretty much the norm for everyone, with large deductibles that used to absolutely shock anyone that we told. One of my parents was a federal employee so they now both enjoy very generous health benefits and will for the rest of their lives. They marvel at what we pay and what we could be on the hook for if anyone in my family got really sick.

I’m really just sad for the whole healthcare situation in our country. On what planet does it make sense for a sign to be in a walk-in labs place that proclaims “Cash customers receive 50% discount”. If you ask me, that right there pretty much sums up the entire insurance problem.

 

[Muushka]

Hey friend, how are you?

Hospital of the University of Penn. Partner did know his insurance and felt that because the city has a domestic partner charter, he shouldn't be denied. He did have a suit against the insurance company for not covering and he had a suit against the hospital for booting partner out while he was knowingly sick and putting his life in danger and for not attempting to make other arrangements.

not sure how it turned out, after our deposition, the old guy really went down hill. ...so sorry

I'm good, thanks.

Seems like some due diligence needed to take place in that circumstance. I don't think I would ever assume I had insurance coverage without making sure.

Is this part of the Univ of Penn for profit? Is it part of the hospital?

 

[eliza61]

I'm good, thanks.

Seems like some due diligence needed to take place in that circumstance. I don't think I would ever assume I had insurance coverage without making sure.

Is this part of the Univ of Penn for profit? Is it part of the hospital?

actually not sure. I never thought about it. I assumed that the hospital was part of the school. after googling though it looks like at one time it was part of their med program but separated long ago. It could be an independent for profit place that simply kept the name. sorry

I think the shock came from, he had already been there 4 weeks. chemo took a week and then you begin your 7 week quarantine. Not sure he knew at the time what was going on. Have you tried to get answers from an insurance company over the phone. lol I'm assuming (and this is seriously just an assumption) that they went through the same intake procedure that we went through.
Every hospital we went to, made sure there was a way to pay before you even get a bed.

I just wanted to dispel the theory that a hospital will treat you without some form a payment. I have seen some of the best dismiss (put out) patients in a heart beat. some will transfer the patient to a charity or city hospital but they for sure will get rid of an indigent patient quickly. especially a high cost one.

 

[AquaDame]

This is a liberal urban myth. My daughter treats dozens of uninsured people every day in the ER at a huge city hospital. She has cancer, renal, diabetic and many other chronic patients who get the SAME care with the same top notch doctors as those who have insurance.

Its basic triage - just enough to get them out the door until the next time. Its not true proper care, and certainly not long term healthcare or anything preventative.

There are lies on all sides when elections are involved, why are we calling each other names and slapping labels again?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm not gleeful but I do stand by the remark. We do not fix anything until the proverbial crap hits the fan.
Education
social security
healthcare.
NOTHING all these things are long term problems that have been put off and put off and put off.

When did we start thinking about the gas crisis? When gasoline started creeping up to 5 dollars a gallon. then all of sudden it was top priority.

When did the American public start thinking it should stop spending like wild and start saving???? uhmmm let me see, oh yeah that was when all heck broke loose in 2008.

So yes, I do think just like addicts we need to hit rock bottom. today's election day. what do you think is going to happen in the next 2 years? I'll bet some ones health care insurance that zippo will get fix.

On the next presidential election, no matter who wins, the losers are going to dig in the trenches.

So no while I am not gleeful and I don't think I used those words. I do think the health care issue needs to hit each and every American before it gets fixed.

How long have we been complaining about social security????? anyone????

You know when social security gets fixed? when a whole generation of seniors stop getting checks.

the last time any thing imo got moving it was after 9/11. That took a attack on the nation and the lost of 3000 souls to shake us out of our collective morass.

I do agree nothing happens until rock bottom. What we're learning now though is that rock bottom was not 2010. Rock bottom (so far) is 2015. How do we address the things that stayed the same or even got worse under ACA? Because those things vastly outnumber the small # of things that actually improved

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Do you have a source? Everything I'm finding on the IRS website says benefits will be reported on W2s for informational purposes only and are not taxable.


http://www.irs.gov/uac/Employer-Pro...Reporting-Requirements:-Questions-and-Answers

Just what I'm hearing from Teamsters & Longshoremen.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Please note that this tax is for what is considered a "Cadillac Plan." I was on one of these until last year, when my employer basically lowered the coverage on the best plan they offered so it would comply with this law. Note that my current coverage is still what I would consider excellent coverage, although it is not as good as the former plan was.

A majority of employer provided plans are not "Cadillac Plans."

But you have to admit the irony of forcing companies to REDUCE coverage in order to avoid penalties is pure US Govt at its finest.

And the "Cadillac" plans of today were just run of the mill plans a decade ago.

 

[morgan98]

But you have to admit the irony of forcing companies to REDUCE coverage in order to avoid penalties is pure US Govt at its finest.

And the "Cadillac" plans of today were just run of the mill plans a decade ago.

I do agree it is ironic and counter-productive. I mean it is impacting me personally, as they are no longer offering the plan I was on for over 8 years as an option. Of course this is another form of government cost shifting. If an employer wants to offer employees and exceptional plan as part of their compensation package, I guess the government is now saying you can pay this "penalty" to help cover others.

However, I would still not call the Cadillac Plan a "run of the mill" plan. I will give you that that level of coverage may have been somewhat common at companies that had great benefit packages or maybe if they were negotiated by unions, but I don't think many of the smaller employers really offered them because they have always been very expensive.

 

[Muushka]

actually not sure. I never thought about it. I assumed that the hospital was part of the school. after googling though it looks like at one time it was part of their med program but separated long ago. It could be an independent for profit place that simply kept the name. sorry

I think the shock came from, he had already been there 4 weeks. chemo took a week and then you begin your 7 week quarantine. Not sure he knew at the time what was going on. Have you tried to get answers from an insurance company over the phone. lol I'm assuming (and this is seriously just an assumption) that they went through the same intake procedure that we went through.
Every hospital we went to, made sure there was a way to pay before you even get a bed.

I just wanted to dispel the theory that a hospital will treat you without some form a payment. I have seen some of the best dismiss (put out) patients in a heart beat. some will transfer the patient to a charity or city hospital but they for sure will get rid of an indigent patient quickly. especially a high cost one.

I personally would not assume I had insurance without something in writing from the insurance company (like an ins ID card for example). Now if they issued him the card and told him he had insurance, then yes, there is something very wrong with the way he was treated. Unless it is a for profit hospital. I don't think for profit medical centers should have to provide care pro bono.

 

[eliza61]

I personally would not assume I had insurance without something in writing from the insurance company (like an ins ID card for example). Now if they issued him the card and told him he had insurance, then yes, there is something very wrong with the way he was treated. Unless it is a for profit hospital. I don't think for profit medical centers should have to provide care pro bono.

Sorry Muush, I don't know. We came in when they were finished chemo, about two weeks in (for us) they were kicking them out. I can't imagine he mistakenly thought he had insurance but I simply don't know and no one really discuss much about finances except to complain about lack of inexpensive parking. it cost me almost 20 bucks a day to park. One of the biggest guilts that I carry is that I quarreled with the old guy about visiting him 2-3 times a day. It was costing well over 150 bucks a week just to park.
Let just say that we had full insurance and were stunned by some of the charges we got socked with.
Something as simple as incorrectly coding a prescription can send a red flag saying that prescription was not covered.

For example the old guy needed a drug called neupogen. After chemo it's used to help the person get their white blood cell count up. but because it is a "support" drug and does not directly fight cancer, guess what. It was not covered. Now yes maybe if I had dissected his policy I could have found out what drugs where or where not covered, probably not since I probably wouldn't have known what to even ask, but with a husband fighting for his life, 2 kids to try and take care of plus still having to work plus trying to keep up with his oncologist and myrid other doctors. well you get the picture. Neuprogen cost 100 dollars a shot. He need one shot for 21 days. the first time around.

So I'm sure he had an id card, like I said every hospital I've ever been in, before you even get a tissue they ask you for your id card. Heck, when you go to the drug store minute clinic the first thing you feel out is a form agreeing to pay or a credit card so I can't imagine he was allowed to go 3-4 weeks without some thing.

while I don't think anyone should be forced to accept anyone. the point is they did accept him, then stripped him of his immune system and then kicked him out. that is flat out inhuman.
maybe he'll have a better chance of he goes in and says he has just come back for an ebola stricken region. sorry but where not talking about some one with a head cold. It's ironic that they make the quest and nurses wear face mask and coveralls to prevent infection to the patient, yet kicking a guy out into a major city is perfectly ok.

 

[eliza61]

I do agree nothing happens until rock bottom. What we're learning now though is that rock bottom was not 2010. Rock bottom (so far) is 2015. How do we address the things that stayed the same or even got worse under ACA? Because those things vastly outnumber the small # of things that actually improved

get no argument from me Gumbo. I don't like the ACA. I'm just not pretending that what we had was great.

today's election day. voter turnout in pa is below 50%. so obviously we haven't hit rock bottom.

So basically the next 2-4 years is looking like the last 5-10 years.

And once again, I've not heard one person say that our system is broken (ok maybe you and Ocean Annie) every one else is simply screaming that their premiums went up.

health care cost has risen over the last 20 years exponentially. in 2012 it was some thing ridiculous like almost 20% of the country's budget. and all of a sudden NOW is unsustainable??? seriously??? are you kidding me. 15 years ago at that rate of explosion it was unsustainable. I stand by what I said, the reason no one cared in 1999 and 2000 was because it effected poor folks.
Now that the middle class is getting suck in, NOW it's some how unsustainable?

Health Care Costs as percent of GDP vs Year

Like I said, I want this mess resolve, and no the aca isn't the solution, it's probably going to accelerate this disaster, but neither is simply going back to 2012.