Going Rate for points??

[Deb & Bill]

From a renter's perspective, I was not willing to pay more than $10.00 a point. Especially since Disney was offering 3 nights free if you booked through them including park passes.

Another renter's perspective here:

If I rent I cannot take advantage of deals like free DDP or the buy 4 get 3 free a few months ago. From my point of view, this drives down the cost I am willing to pay per point down. I agree with $10 seeming like the maximum reasonable for renters. I know it may be higher to recoup costs for the owner, but there is an opportunity cost for renters who give up typical resort rooms. Comparing with rack rate is not always what renters are doing. We often compare a standard room package with a dvc rental. There's no way I'd ever pay rack rate.

But, any way you look at it Disney's worth the money, in my eyes.

I hope you don't think I am getting upset with you, but I don't feel that an owner should subsidize a non-owner's vacation. DVC shouldn't be a way to a cheap vacation at an owner's cost. I think there are just too many points floating around out there that the owners want to rent out.

 

[DiznyMagic]

It's not a matter of what is or isn't fair. There is no right or wrong answer. You might get $10, $11, $8 or $14. It all depends upon supply, demand and how much work you are willing to put into it.

I'm glad you mentioned the work because I dont think non dvc members realize the work involved in trying to find availability. I have made up to 6 phone calls and numerous email back and forth at times trying to accomodate their needs.

I always saw renting points as a way to help someone enjoy the accomodations that my family has been able to enjoy that otherwise they may not - a win for them as well as us since at times we have been unable to travel however I have been rethinking this especially when I see people asking for points and naming their own price.

 

[The Red Head]

There are different ways to look at this. If someone wants free dining, that is what they want, then no they will not be renting points. But if someone wants to stay in a DVC resort for less than rack rate, than they will be willing to rent points. Don't forget why we and other people like to stay in the villas. We have things like kitchens and washer and dryers right in our room. You don't need free dining if you have a kitchen and can do some of your meals in your room.

 

[joeytdog]

I can understand your fustration.

While I have rented three times, and paid in cash full after one or two emails, I believe there are many out there who just waste peoples time.

If you want to rent your points quicker, I would suggest a discount for someone willing to take them all (Have 300, will rent all 300 for $10, otherwise $11)

i.e. less reservations and less people to deal with for you

 

[DiznyMagic]

I can understand your fustration.

While I have rented three times, and paid in cash full after one or two emails, I believe there are many out there who just waste peoples time.

If you want to rent your points quicker, I would suggest a discount for someone willing to take them all (Have 300, will rent all 300 for $10, otherwise $11)

i.e. less reservations and less people to deal with for you

Thats a good idea and will consider if I decide not to bank them. I only have 106 left but it would still work.
My home resort is Vero Beach but my points are good until 2010.

 

[Opie100]

It's not a matter of what is or isn't fair. There is no right or wrong answer. You might get $10, $11, $8 or $14. It all depends upon supply, demand and how much work you are willing to put into it.

The quote above is the right answer. If you don't have a expiring need to sell, list them for whatever you want. Since points expire, some folks are must sell before they lose their value, which drives the cost down. It's like selling a house - if you need to move, you're going to price more competitively. If you're just seeing what you can get, then price it as you please.

Of course, the longer your house is on the market, the less attractive it becomes, which rewards those who price it more aggressively to begin with... but I digress.

Pricing is never about what something "should" cost, but what the market will bear.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

One thing you might have missed in people's attempts to sell is the deadline in which these points must be used. The sooner the deadline the less they are asking for because time is running out. There are points for rent/transfer that expire May 31, Jun 30, and Jul 31, unfortunately, there are few reservations still available for those travel periods.

Also, I've purchased transfer points several times over the years and typically paid $10 but this last time I bought from someone who could not use his last 66 points and he offered them to me at $9 because they were going to expire Jun 30 and it worked out for me because our travel would be completed by Jun 13th.

Sometimes you get into a pickle and only need a few points to combine with what you already have. Right now I have 3 left that I will probably transfer to someone who needs them rather than losing them altogether, they can't be banked, so let them benefit someone else.

 

[Disneypapa]

is pricing your extra points to cheaply IMHO. I've rented points 4 times and the last two transactions were for $11/pt last summer. The trick is to start early and work at it and you'll be rewarded before your points become distressed. All that said, I suspect there is a glut of points due to fewer members taking trips in these economic times and the supply exceeds the demand, thus more members have more motivation to drop the price.

 

[DisneyWalker44]

I hope you don't think I am getting upset with you, but I don't feel that an owner should subsidize a non-owner's vacation.

Just curious - why not? Or, putting it another way - why do you care if I stay at DVC on my points, or use them to help my neighbor visit Disney cheap?

Note - seriously, I'm just asking here out of curiosity, not trying to be confrontational.

 

[Disneyhappy]

I never seem to have enough points for our trips. I am usually purchasing transfer points instead of having to rent them. But if I did need to rent them right now, I don't think I would accept less than $11 per point unless they were distressed.

Just curious if the point rental cost will change for reservations in 2010 with the point chart changes. I don't follow the renters board close enough to know whether units are rented more M-F or with the weekends mixed in. If renters usually include the weekends, the new point charts should not have an impact.

By the way, I also agree with Deb and Bill.

 

[IndependentW0N]

I understand you're not upset. I was just illustrating the renter's perspective owners can consider when they need to rent points.

I am sure I don't see the big picture (although I am in the process of closing with DVC) but from my perspective renting points is a means to recouping costs for points owners don't plan to use. For that to happen the owner must find a renter who feels the rate set by the owner is reasonable. And for that to happen owners must, to some extent, attract renters... whether they be another owner or a nonowner. And to attract a nonowner (like myself, currently) the price needs to show a value... either based on price alone, or price and space.

I am sure the owners in this conversation know what rates they can sell at. And I am sure there is much more to it than I can imagine. But, anyway you look at it, it's just like selling anything else. It takes two.

Good luck!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Just curious - why not? Or, putting it another way - why do you care if I stay at DVC on my points, or use them to help my neighbor visit Disney cheap?

Note - seriously, I'm just asking here out of curiosity, not trying to be confrontational.

Let me start out with we use our points or invite our friends or relatives to join us.

The "shoppers" are what get me. A member will do all the footwork to let a non-member know that something is available. Then the non-member will find someone else with points at a lower price and get them to book, leaving the original member in the dust.

I have nothing against members sharing their vacations with friends and relatives. Just some of the greedy non-members who advertise for "cheap" points or "about to expire"points so they can get a dream vacation for their little princess. Then you check their signature block and they were just at WDW last month.

 

[DiznyMagic]

Let me start out with we use our points or invite our friends or relatives to join us.

The "shoppers" are what get me. A member will do all the footwork to let a non-member know that something is available. Then the non-member will find someone else with points at a lower price and get them to book, leaving the original member in the dust.

I have nothing against members sharing their vacations with friends and relatives. Just some of the greedy non-members who advertise for "cheap" points or "about to expire"points so they can get a dream vacation for their little princess. Then you check their signature block and they were just at WDW last month.

Deb & Bill I agree with you. That is why I started this thread because I was alarmed to see how many people (non members mostly) were putting the price on our points. Some were posting that they would not accept more more than $6 pp I was shocked. Not to mention I had the experienced of doing the footwork to then be told no thanks someone else helped me.

I really saw it as doing something to help someone go and enjoy Disney in the same manner we do and ofcourse help myself because we couldnt travel but I think over the years non members are seeing it differently.

 

[IndependentW0N]

I agree, nonmembers setting the price is inappropriate.

 

[DeeCee735]

For Dec and some other times with the DVC discount I have paid $285 plus tax for a 2 bedroom for a Friday night. Sometimes just over $200+tax for a 1 bedroom.

Which resort did you get this rate? Sounds too good to be true, and if I can get the same rate (since I'm out of points for a while), I'm going!

 

[nwhitehead1214]

The quote above is the right answer. If you don't have a expiring need to sell, list them for whatever you want. Since points expire, some folks are must sell before they lose their value, which drives the cost down. It's like selling a house - if you need to move, you're going to price more competitively. If you're just seeing what you can get, then price it as you please.

Of course, the longer your house is on the market, the less attractive it becomes, which rewards those who price it more aggressively to begin with... but I digress.

Pricing is never about what something "should" cost, but what the market will bear.

That's the golden ticket answer. I can stand at the top of my home and yell about what my house can sell for but if my neighbor home is selling under mine the market will drive it.

 

[IndependentW0N]

Precisely. Great description.

 

[minniekissedme]

I rent at $12 per point and don't have a problem. I provide more service to my customers than MS ever will...it's a bargain. People renting at $8 are doing every "landlord" an injustice as far as I'm concerned.

 

[lark]

That's the golden ticket answer. I can stand at the top of my home and yell about what my house can sell for but if my neighbor home is selling under mine the market will drive it.

Agree. I suppose it would be nice if there were a general understanding from renters that a specific price should be the price -- then again antitrust laws are basically premised on the notion that that kind of understanding is anticompetitive. So long as the numbers don't start making a cash reservation more or equally attractive, it woud be nice if everyone could stick to it. But of course, everybody can't. At the end of the day, even getting $1 for a point that would otherwise expire is worth it. And while I suppose many members would rather let the points expire on principle in that situation, not all would -- and as a person looking to buy someone else's points, that's all you need. A renter doesn't need 10 vacations, just one -- so all he or she needs is one person willing to rent them for $7/point or whatever.

There are lots things happening right now, I believe, to reduce the value of points on the rental market. First, of course is the economy. Second, disney is offering great incentives and resales seem to be getting through ROFR at decent prices. Renting 200 points for $12 may not seem so great when you can put that $2400 toward a contract at $75/per point. Third, the relationship between disney and RCI is a bit disappointing. Renters now have to compete with the exchange companies, which seem to be happy to sell or exchange unused DVC rooms for less than cash reservations. Fourth are developer points offered as incentives. They are being rented so cheaply right now, that they seem to be setting a floor for other points (except BLT) even at resorts where developer points can't be used.

Last is free dining. In some senses, free dining is a marketing trick, for those who otherwise would not have purchased it. It's a way to get them to pay rack for a relatively low overhead item. But for those who would purchase the dining plan if it weren't free, it's a very large discount -- it's a savings of over $100 per night for a family of four. It's not easy for DVC rentals to compete with that. A 1 BR at VWL for late July has a cash price of about $3450 for the week, including the tax and fees. To compete with that for a renter who will have to pay $710 or so for dining, a DVC owner needs to come in lower than $2700, which is $10 per point -- and substantially lower if you have a saavy renter who values daily maid service. Or you need to find a weekday renter or someone willing to take less than a full week to avoid the premium Friday and Saturday points costs.

I think it's cyclical. When things are going great and disney is not having to offer big promotions and is raising the prices of rack rates each year, DVC points will continue to be a bargain even at $11 or $12 or maybe higher. For right now, that's just not the case. There is no inherent value to a point. It's just worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It's no different from the massive number of timeshare rentals you can find right now at great places -- Hawaii and the like -- for sometimes a fraction of maintenance fees.

 

[nwhitehead1214]

I rent at $12 per point and don't have a problem. I provide more service to my customers than MS ever will...it's a bargain. People renting at $8 are doing every "landlord" an injustice as far as I'm concerned.

See, and some people will put a value to that. I would likely rent from someone who I trust and will give me more service than someone whom I find "suspect" and 8 pp. However, not everyone values things that way. Some may take their chances. That is the market driving the rental. I would pay more to get my BLT reservation when I want it but if it is a fly by night trip to OKW or SSR who is offering the cheapest. Its like Walmart or Neiman Marcus. What do you put your premium on and what can you afford. The resale market right now though-- wow. SSR points going in the 60's. That is what I have been watching. Whoa