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Big Dude

<font color=red>Tagless in New Jersey<font color=g
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As taken from CNN.com

Court dismisses Pledge case

Atheist father cannot sue over use of 'Under God'

Monday, June 14, 2004 Posted: 12:44 PM EDT (1644 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that a California atheist could not challenge the words "one nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state.

The ruling -- delivered on Flag Day -- means that the full oath will continue to be recited in the nation's public schools.

Five justices -- led by Justice John Paul Stevens -- said Michael Newdow, the father, did not have legal standing to bring the case. Newdow, who is involved in a custody dispute with the mother of their third-grade daughter, could not speak for the girl, the court ruled.

Writing for the majority, Justice John Paul Stevens said, "When hard questions of domestic relations are sure to affect the outcome, a prudent course is for the federal court to stay its hand rather than reach out to resolve a weighty question of federal constitutional law."

He added, "Newdow lacks prudential standing to bring this suit in federal court."

Led by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, three other justices said that the Pledge does not violate the First Amendment, which prohibits the establishment of religion by the government.

At Newdow's request, Justice Antonin Scalia recused himself after he had made remarks in a speech critical of the case.

Newdow, who has medical and legal degrees and argued his own case before the high-court justices in March, never married the mother of the child and the two are in a battle over his parental rights.

The mother, Sandra Banning, has said she has no problem with her daughter reciting the full Pledge of Allegiance and argued that Newdow had no right to bring the case.

In his minority opinion, Rehnquist wrote, "To give the parent of such a child a sort of 'heckler's veto' over a patriotic ceremony willingly participated in by other students, simply because the Pledge of Allegiance contains the descriptive phrase 'under God,' is an unwarranted extension of the establishment clause, an extension which would have the unfortunate effect of prohibiting a commendable patriotic observance."

Constitutional scholars have long debated whether the Pledge of Allegiance serves as a prayer in addition to a patriotic oath.

Newdow sued the Sacramento County, California, school district his daughter attended, claiming public recitation by students violated her religious liberty. While legal precedent makes reciting the pledge voluntary, Newdow said it becomes unconstitutional when students are forced to hear it.

He argued that the teacher-led recitations carry the stamp of government approval. (March arguments before case)

Newdow declared that his daughter would be singled out if she chose not to say the oath, and would be coerced to participate. "Imagine you're a third-grader in a class of 30 kids. That's enormous pressure to put on a child" to conform, he said. "Government needs to stay out of the religion business altogether."

The Bush administration opposed the ban, and Solicitor General Theodore Olson told the justices the pledge is simply a "ceremonial, patriotic exercise."

In June 2002, the 9th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals drew sharply divided public opinion when it banned the teacher-led Pledge of Allegiance for the nearly 10 million schoolchildren in the nine Western states under its jurisdiction. In striking down the pledge, the judges ruled "the coercive effect of the policy here is particularly pronounced in the school setting given the age and impressionability of schoolchildren." (The 2002 ruling)

But the ban was put on hold until the high court issues a final ruling.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Baptist minister and educator Francis Bellamy, who made no reference to religion in his version. It was originally worded: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It quickly became a part of public school programs.

In 1954, Congress added the words "under God," after pressure by the Knights of Columbus and other groups. Another modification was to change "my flag" to "the flag of the United States of America."

The case is Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow (02-1624).

Adam aka Big Dude
 
I'm so glad that he didn't win. I am sooo... sick of people trying to change/challenge history & the reason our country IS what it IS, and we are where we are because Christian men & women fought for it. Christians are the majority in this country & if some people don't like it, then they don't have to say "Under God" or read The Ten Commandments in front of court houses, etc. and if that's not good enough for these folks - MOVE somewhere that practices beliefs in which they do believe. Just my little 2 cents.
 
If the father did not like the words, why didn't he tell his daughter to just stand and not recite the words "under God"? By bringing a lawsuit, isn't he infringing on other students rights to recite the pledge the way it has be recited for many years?

I have watched this man on interviews and he is very pompous and arrogant. Besides, since he is not the custodial parent, he should not have any say in what his daughter does. (Putting on flame retardant suit now)

Nancy
 
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_106.gif' border=0></a>
 

I'm glad the case was dismissed, but if Newdow wins legal custody of his daughter in the California courts, we will probably see this argued before the U.S. Supreme Court once again.

I agree with 4cruisin - simply instruct his daughter not to say "Under God" when she recites the Pledge. The least restrictive way to interfere with EVERYONE'S rights!
 
Besides, since he is not the custodial parent, he should not have any say in what his daughter does. (Putting on flame retardant suit now)

Oh my...:earseek: I don't think there's a flame retardant suit big enough for this one!!:eek:
 
I'm so glad to hear that this was the outcome. I'm afraid though that someone else will now bring it all out again. Someone who does have custody of their child.

The mother of this little girl fully supports her daughter saying the words "under God." I've seen her interviewed several times. So, just telling her not to say the words would go against the mother's wishes.

I'm just glad he lost. :)
 
2 years until we see it again. And next time the court will have to rule on the constitutional question, not sidestep it to preserve family law.

And "under God" was only added to the pledge in the 50s, against the wishes of its original writer (edit: as evidenced by his writings since he was dead at the time), so there isn't that much history behind it.
 
Just FYI, not flaming, but I'm assuming this guy had joint custody with his ex-wife having primary custody. Parents who do not have primary custody do have the right to be involved in such things. While I disagree with the guy and I don't think he should be bringing this to the courts, it is his business as much as it is his ex-wife's (presuming he didn't give his ex full custody).
 
jrydberg,
From what I can remember, the parents were never married. The mom seems reasonable, I'm not quite sure how she ever ended up having a child with that man. He is very arrogant and has an attitude of "I know better than you" whenever he speaks about his lawsuit. I am not sure how custody was arranged but I do know that the mom has physical custody of the daughter.
 
Originally posted by KristiKelly
I'm so glad that he didn't win. I am sooo... sick of people trying to change/challenge history & the reason our country IS what it IS, and we are where we are because Christian men & women fought for it.


I busted up laughing when I read this.

What a joke :rotfl:
 
Originally posted by chadfromdallas
I busted up laughing when I read this.

What a joke :rotfl:

Come now Chadfromdallas, didn't you read that chapter in your American history books?

We are a "Christian Nation!"

Welcome to the United States. Here's your bible.

And I agree with you Jeff. I believe the Court trampled on this father's rights. The CNN article reports that the two parents are currently involved in a "custody dispute."
 
Originally posted by ThreeCircles
And I agree with you Jeff. I believe the Court trampled on this father's rights. The CNN article reports that the two parents are currently involved in a "custody dispute."
No, ThreeCircles, he trampled on his daughter's rights. She stated on several occasions that she WANTED to say the Pledge. Her father should have respected his daughter's wishes and never pursued the case. That has NOTHING to do with religion. :mad:
 
Originally posted by Pete's Mom
She stated on several occasions that she WANTED to say the Pledge.

Do you have a credible article that states this? It's not in the CNN article unless I missed it.
 
Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Do you have a credible article that states this? It's not in the CNN article unless I missed it.
I saw an interview with the mother and daughter on the the Today show (I will search for the link).
 
What also bothers me is this man thinks he is might be one of "the best father's in the world."

How could a father do that to his child?
 
The other thing that bothers me is that the only reason this was stopped was because it was deemed that the father did not have sufficient custody to bring this case.

I wish it was because there is no merit to the case at all.

But, you're right Adam. God is still working through it all :)
 
Originally posted by KristiKelly
Christians are the majority in this country & if some people don't like it, then they don't have to say "Under God" or read The Ten Commandments in front of court houses, etc. and if that's not good enough for these folks - MOVE somewhere that practices beliefs in which they do believe.
I am a faithful Christian. But what if one day the Judeo-Christian religion is no longer the religious system of the majority of Americans? Do you want your grandchildren to have to recite "one nation, under [insert god of the new majority religion or belief system here]"? Or to have writings from that religion posted in their schools and other public facilities? I am not arguing, but it is definitely something to consider.
 














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