Gifted program in elementary school - vent! (long, sorry!)

[TinkBoo&ElliesMum]

DS was tested for the gifted program, they've decided he doesn't qualify based on his test scores.

His scores as we have them are:

Verbal - 81st percentile
Quantitative - 98th percentile
Reading - 92nd percentile
math - 60th percentile

I honestly question the math score since he's at the top of his class in math, but whatever.

Ok, with those scores he doesn't qualify for ANY special programs in the district. He's suffering in the regular class, he went from being in a very challenging class last year (different district) to skating by this year. My fear is that he's going to get so bored he stops trying, his report card is excellent, he's at or above grade level for everything.

We can appeal the decision on the gifted program, I'm just not sure if I want to. Part of me is concerned that there were 90+ kids applying and they had openings for 25, that means DS isn't alone on this, he can't be the only one that's bored out of his mind. But the district won't do anything more for them.

I haven't told DS he didn't make it yet, the pressure that was put on this testing by the school and everyone else is nuts, I'm hoping he takes it ok!

This mommy thing isn't fun sometimes!

 

[Puffy2]

This is the problem with the gifted program. You have talented, and more importantly, students that are INTERESTED and enthusiastic about special programs at the school - but no, they have to be labeled "gifted" before they are allowed to participate.

My child was interested in the computer club...sorry that's only for the gifted students. They were interested in newspaper...sorry that's only for the gifted students.

While having challenging programs for those who test well is good - and special programs for those who are struggling are also good, I think the public schools ignor the potential of the majority.

Not sure what the solution is for the public schools. For us, it was to homeschool - where our children can learn and explore whatever they are interested in as well as complete their regular work. So far it is working very well for us.

And by the way, don't feel bad about the not getting "in" - I'm certain it varies from school to school, but in our area I have heard quite a few complaints from many parents about the quality of the gifted program.

 

[sandramaac]

Participation in the gifted programs don't only rely on the scores from the standardized test. They also rely on course scores, IQ test and teacher recommendation. In our district, to participate in the gifted program, you must have standardized test scores of over 93%, and IQ of 125 and course grades of A in the majority of classes. The scores are matrixed out, with more points given with higher test scores, IQ scores and course scores. The top kids who reach the top in matrix scoring then make the gifted program.

Usually the verbal, math and overall score in the standardized test are the main ones areas looked at. As I mentioned above, most districts look for scores any where from the 91st to 93rd percentile. If your sons scores in the previous years where in this range and this year are not, I would go to the school and ask them to see what may have happened. If your son's score are in line with previous years, then he may not meet your districts requirements for the gifted program. But check into it.

Hope this helps.

 

[sandramaac]

Let me mention that many districts are offering additional gifted programs that cater to those who have alternate giftedness, i.e., music, art, writing---areas that are more qualitative in nature. Most gifted programs use a more quantitative approach in admitting kids into the program. But educators realize that the are other areas that kids are gifted, and it can't be tested. Again, I urge you to talk to your school to find out.

 

[TinkBoo&ElliesMum]

Participation in the gifted programs don't only rely on the scores from the standardized test. They also rely on course scores, IQ test and teacher recommendation. In our district, to participate in the gifted program, you must have standardized test scores of over 93%, and IQ of 125 and course grades of A in the majority of classes.

Actually our district does base it on standardized testing and the parent and teacher questionnaire, that's it. His teacher feels strongly that he belongs in this program, she's trying her best to challenge him on a daily basis but with 23 kids in the class it's hard.

 

[D L and K's Mom]

I am a First Grade Teacher and my advice is talk to your child's teacher. I have quite a few children who are in my clas this year that are "Gifted". Many are not qualified for our "Gifted" program. I have worked out a few individual programs for these children along with their parents...they are still responsible for what we do in class.....they just do a little extra...maybe some critical thinking....maybe some research on the subject on our classroom computer. Quite a few of the children help us come up with some great projects on their own and then I work with them. I have quite a few different projects going on in my class......an art project, a tech project, a photography project and some others. The children may know how to add double digit numbers but may not know the signifigance of tens and ones etc. This is why they are still responsible to sit and do the regular math with the other children (in groups etc). We just build on that.......I have found this works...they don't seem bored and they know if they"slack" off and hand in sloppy work etc...they are not allowed to work on the "free" projects until their work improves. Talk to the teacher!! We are there for the kids.......... We have the best job in the whole world!!!

 

[sandramaac]

Are you sure there isn't an IQ requirement? I would check and see. Perhaps they aren't actually saying it, but most districts do look at the IQ score. Look into it!!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Sorry, this will be long. I'll give you my honest views on my children and the whole g/t program, or whatever it is called here and wherever you live. The name keeps changing, but ist's basically the same program. I wouldn't show my children this thread because these are my honest thoughts on what I think about their intelligence--a little too honest for me to share with them. lol

Don't even get me started on the whole g/t thing!!! It has to be the biggest joke and is something that I can actually laugh at now.

I have four children, but three that are of school age. My first is a girl--17yo senior in HS, a Dec baby, started school when she was 4 1/2. She started reading in K, was tested in 2nd grade like they do here. Tested as g/t, but not high enough to go to a special school. She is a reasonably smart girl, lacking some common sense at times (strawberry blonde hair and those blonde hairs show through too much some days ). She good at planning her time, half her current classes are collge classes taken through a community college. The g/t classification was a good call and not having her go to a magnet school was, also, because she had enough challange at our local schools.

My second child was a September baby, turning 5yo just after starting K. He starting reading when he turned 5yo and did well early on in school. He also tested for g/t, but early on started having problems in school. He is very smart, but has ADD and Tourettes Syrdrome. He is g/t and is advanced in some subjects as a h/s freshman, such English and Spanish, but not math. He's truly the kid who marches to the beat of a different drummer and is such an imaginative kid. He's good at art and music. Just not always at the things that adults value. lol

The eye opening experience has been our third child. Zachary was our child that seemed the brightest. He asked the most questions, his math skills from the time he was young were amazing, he did everything early. He learned to read at 5yo, with no instruction. We thought that he was the one that would be invited to go to a magnet school. When he was tested for g/t in 2nd grade not only was he not invited to go to a magnet school, but he was not even given the g/t distinction. We were shocked. We had him retested twice a year before we gave up in 5th grade. We eventually told him.

He was confused by this since he was in the top reading and math groups, and was getting straight A's. He would get to have pizza every marking period with "the smart kids" and the principal and be on the school tv and would get to tell everyone his secret for making good grades. But he wasn't g/t. LOL

Now he's in 6th grade, middle school. In 7th grade he will be in all honors classes, along with algebra, so at this point it really doesn't matter. He gets close to straight A's, with usually a B in math and we are very proud of him. He has done better in school than his "g/t siblings". Thankfully we can laugh about it now.

My youngest starts kindergarten this fall, though, so we get to go through it all over again!

T&B

 

[TinkBoo&ElliesMum]

Are you sure there isn't an IQ requirement? I would check and see. Perhaps they aren't actually saying it, but most districts do look at the IQ score. Look into it!!

We checked during the parent meeting, several of us did, there isn't an IQ requirement. This is a small rural district, 3 elementary schools, one middle and high school.

 

[Katy Belle]

Hang in there!!! My son has always been "advanced." We had him tested for the Gifted and Talented program in Kind. and 1st, didn't qualify. I was sick of it, so skipped testing in 2nd grade. His 3rd grade teacher insisted, so we tried again. He finally made it. In this particular district the scores have to be very high, I remember the IQ score had to be 135 or higher and the Achievment Test scores were unbelievable too, plus the teacher and parent checklist. He finally started at the begining of 4th grade....he was the ONLY 4th grader in the entire school in the program!!!!!! He was with the 5th graders, there were THREE of them! This is a school with 120 4th and 120 5th grade students and only FOUR were allowed to participate! They went to a G/T teacher all day on every Wednesday. Many other kids could have benefitted from this wonderful teacher, but were not allowed to!!

Hang in there, hopefully he will eventually get the services he deserves!!!
Katy

 

[Flyfly_Eclipse]

I took the "gifted test" 3 times (in one year...not counting prior years) before I got in...it's funny because I remember a lot of things I had known, and yet got wrong on the test...maybe just due to the stress...here's an example:

I took the test, and was asked, "What are the three oceans?"
"Atlantic, Pacific,...Gulf of Mexico?"

As soon as I left the room to go home, I said..."The answer was Indian Ocean..." without hearing the answer from anyone else, or seeing a map or anything. The stress made me nervous and sometimes hard to concentrate.

I'm sorry about your son...perhaps give him some more math, to make sure his skills are strong, and try testing again if possible.

 

[TheOtherVillainess]

Verbal - 81st percentile
Quantitative - 98th percentile
Reading - 92nd percentile
math - 60th percentile

Maybe math just isn't his strong point? I look at those scores and it takes me back to when I was tested for the G/T program in elem and middle school. I always had high verbal,quantative and reading scores but my math scores kept me out of the program. We didn't find out until I was a Jr. in HS that I have a math-related learning disorder.

I wish they wouldn't keep kids out of G/T programs just because of one subject not being their best subject...esp if the other scores are so danged high.

TOV

 

[TinkBoo&ElliesMum]

Maybe math just isn't his strong point?

I just checked his scores from last June, he scored in the 97th percentile for math and he's improved grately since then, so I don't get his low math score.

DH and I have been talking about it, we're looking into private schools and homeschooling stuff, neither of us are willing to let it slide!

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Have you casually asked your son what he thinks of the program and the testing?

Just this week, we got some stunning test results for our DD9. They were the SCATs (generally given in 8th grade, but here, they test potentially gifted kids in 4th). So, I was on the phone with the G/T teacher to see where we go from here. She also knows my DS8, who is much more of the "march to his own drummer" kid. Well, in our chat, she mentioned that when her own son (now grown) had taken the SCATs, he had not wanted to participate, and so he made sure his test scores would not be "worthy". I had to chuckle, as I could see my own DS doing the exact same thing--and in fact, in her dealings with him, she knew exactly what I meant!

My point is, aside from "competition" for slots, your DS may have sabotaged himself, for whatever reason. With my son, he doesn't want to be labelled as "different" even if it's a good thing. Or your son may have choked, likfe Flyfly suggested, or there amy be a learning disability (my DH has an IQ of 147 and a learning disability--it's called dual exceptionalities, and we didn't find out until he hd graduated college!).

In any event, you may want to look into this a little further, but don't let one set of test scores define his whole life. Good luck to you.

 

[PlutoPony]

In my county, "potentially gifted" is thru 3rd grade and those "identified" as such are pulled out of their regular class once/ week for ~ 2 hrs. - in other words not much class time is lost. In the spring of 3rd grade additional testing is done and selection is made for those who quality for the "true" gifted program. Here, test scores are part of the whole picture but not the only part by any means. However, the test scores must be high on ALL areas of testing (they prefer ~ 97%) as starting in 4th grade they're pulled out of one full day of regular class - and since they're missing all subject matter that day they must be strong in ALL AREAS! Don't know if that's how it works in other places but that might explain why the lower math could be an issue. Also MANY MANY VERY BRIGHT students don't get into G/T programs - that doesn't mean they aren't smart, can't be at the top of their class, etc.! Overall my understanding is that g/t programs are supposed to cover the top 2/3% of the students in a population..... that's not many kids. I too hear very mixed opinions as to how much g/t programs benefit students. In my son's case the best part is that he's in this program with his closest friends and they really support each other intellectually as we're starting to hit that age where it can be difficult socially to be considered bright.

 

[Dancind]

I just checked his scores from last June, he scored in the 97th percentile for math and he's improved grately since then, so I don't get his low math score.

Just a story about my DD, something to check. Though highly gifted, we didn't think she would pass the test to get into enriched math in 6th grade. When I picked her up, she was in tears because she had reached the end of the test, and still had a line to fill in. Which meant she had skipped a line somewhere and put many of her answers on the wrong line. They told us all that could be done was to retest her after school started in the fall. She somehow managed to score the minimum, and got in anyway.

A forty point drop in one year sounds suspiscious.

 

[shortbun]

We're in a large district and we have loads of room for G&T. We have special classrooms called "eclipse" for only G&T kids in two elementary schools and each elementary school has visits from a G&T teacher who pulls our the clusters for math, science, social studies. Classroom teachers are tapped as best in some subjects and those clusters are placed with teachers who are passionate about those subjects too.
All classrooms have reading levels so gifted readers have access to just about anything their parents will approve them to read. I love our system. Our school has so many kids tapped as G&T that we have a G&T teacher for three full days each week. She has enough time to do pull outs in 3rd -5th grades and visit each classroom once a week with special enrichment that the teachers carry on throughout. Our school is just loaded with enrichment. We have African drumming and marimba along with regular instrumental instruction and we have a full time dance and art teachers. It's the bomb! Children do have to test at or above the 94th percentile to be labled but our school includes everyone even close in pull outs AND as said before, all classes have enrichment at least once a week. Maybe you could look at surrounding school systems and somehow get in there and advocate for your child by arranging other special things for them-art,chess,music: all brain activities. Good luck, I looked at schools for a long time before working really hard to get my child into ours.

 

[trappednabox]

I've been on both sides of the G/T program. Ok, so I don't have any kids, but I have my little sis, and my nephew who I love VERY much. anyway, we took my little sister in to be tested before her kindergarten year, she tested and got in with no problem, she's been in the program since then (she's in 2nd grade this year). Now it was time to take my nephew to test, he's a bright boy, is reading a little now (5) nows dinosaurs names just by looking at the pictures, nows adding subtracting, colors....lots more than most kindergarteners. hell more than I knew when I went to kindergarten. But didn't get in. I know he is going to be really upset when they finally tell him b/c all he has ever said was he wants to go the same school as my sis. but I know they also go alot by maturaty level, and how well the kids interact with others. There are lots of other factors than just how well they do on the test. Not to mention the number of applicants and the number of spaces they have to fill. I'm really sorry your child didn't make it, but you might want to try again next year like we will.

 

[Cindy B]

Been there done that.

I appealed the decision (some of my sons paperwork mysteriously got lost when we switched principals).

Honestly, my kids school get 1/2 hour to one hour PER WEEK.

Its not the much different than regular curriculum.

 

[Mskanga]

I just had my kids tested recently but decided to keep the kids doing exactly the same thing they have been doing all along, which surprisingly was also the opinion of the vice-principal and psicologist. In the case of my oldest , we did not want to put anymore pressure on her , she pressures herself enough. She's a very well rounded child, involved in almost every program in school , top of the class since she started elementary , peer tutor for the last three years , plays in band , involved in several sports, I can't ask for more from her, she's a straight A's student.
The youngest is another story , the potential is there but she could not be bothered to take her time to do the test right , she rushed and it showed. I know for a fact that she did that , she does that to me at home all the time. But one thing that came out of this on a possitive way is that it was proven that she could be placed in the accelerated programs , she enjoys that now. Perhaps in a year or two I will have her re-tested but for right now the accelerated programs are working just fine for her.
She's doing great academically , so we will leave things like they are now.