Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[ccgirl]

I agree. If 5% of your student population were gifted, which is an average, it is hard to justify in this economic climate running a gifted class/program for 10 kids out of a class of 200. So we create a local standard we use to fill the extra spots. My problem is that kids who are fed a steady stream of "you're gifted" begin to believe that they don't need to work hard. In many cases here, the kids really develop bad/superior attitudes and poor work ethics.

Don't agree with the bolded. If they are challenged, they do need to work hard. That's why posters are saying they need challenging classwork. My DD just got her report card and got A+'s. Lately, she does her homework in 5 minutes. You better believe we now supplement the work. And, I still would not classify my DD as "gifted". I really don't see the "gifted" students as the ones developing the bad/superior attitudes and poor work ethics. I think it is the lazy students that have uninvolved parents, that aren't taught the importance of an education. That are taught being popular is more important than getting an education.

Absolutely. My cousin was the best example of this. Graduated Brooklyn Tech without ever having to do much work. Drove my aunt crazy questioning everything because she "wasn't rational." Screwed around for years before he finally started focusing and went to college at 28. She regretted ever telling him he was gifted and advised me if any of my kids get an identification letter, hide it and don't let the kids know. LOL

That's why I'm not for labelling. I am for advocating for my children the education that best fits their needs. Something tells me there is more to the story above than teh child being labelled as gifted.

 

[ccgirl]

For argument's sake, how do you justify spending resources on kids who refuse to engage themselves in their own education and/or disrupt the educational opportunities for everyone else?

Do you think it's better to spend limited resources on students who take no responsibility for the privilege of education or spend those same resources to allow students who are choosing to put forth effort?

and

 

[cabanafrau]

I agree. If 5% of your student population were gifted, which is an average, it is hard to justify in this economic climate running a gifted class/program for 10 kids out of a class of 200. So we create a local standard we use to fill the extra spots. My problem is that kids who are fed a steady stream of "you're gifted" begin to believe that they don't need to work hard. In many cases here, the kids really develop bad/superior attitudes and poor work ethics.

Completely disagree. I know of a half-day HS program in our area that requires a sound academic record through MS, passing a battery of tests and getting recommendations from teachers and counselors to get one of the very coveted spots. After several decades of operation this program can literally show a list longer than your arm of brain surgeons and rocket scientists who have graduated the program.

It is the norm for students in this program to average six hours of homework per night. It is not the norm for students in this program not to do their homework. It is also the norm for the very small graduating class of seniors in this program to obtain greater scholarship totals than high schools throughout this metropolitan area graduating several hundred seniors. It is not uncommon for a single graduating senior for this program to be awarded 90-percent of the total scholarship dollars for his or her home high school graduating class.

Behavior & discipline are not daily or even monthly concerns in this program. Even as freshmen these kids are treated as if they are in college, with the freedom to speak to another teacher if their current class hour has wrapped up instruction for the day, or hit a lab to continue work on whatever project they're involved with at the time -- freedom to constructively use their time as they need.

This program is not labeled gifted and talented. IMO these students are very high achieving and, gasp, in fact are quite gifted and talented. To get into, remain in and graduate the program I can assure you these kids absolutely do not have a poor work ethic. From all evidence I am aware of, observed, documented or anecdotal, these are not kids with bad or superior attitudes or a propensity for getting in trouble.

I'm so grateful there are places in this country where kids like these can go, learn, achieve and are encouraged to reach for the sky. I salute all of the nerds, geeks, gifted and talented snobs, etc. Our country can use each and every one of you to put your gifts and talents to work creating, engineering, developing any and every technical, structural and financial resource possible to make our economy strong again and return Americans to employment with living wages!

p.s., guess it's kind of like that new TV show, the Voice . . . you don't have to have the clothes or the looks to get on board with learning. Pretty & popular won't solve the equations.

 

[mamacatnv]

Mamacatnv.
That mentally gifted minors program sounds like something that should have been open to every child regardless of mental ability.I can understand having more difficult curriculum for gifted children, but the program you're describing, mentally gifted minors, sounds like it was something that just exposed you to lots of different educational and cultural things, which could have been a huge benefit to a learning disabled child. That program sounds like it actually would have really been great for students with minor learning disabilities. It's a shame it was only available for kids with good test scores.
I guess I just feel for the wonderful programs not available to kids who are smart, bright kids but who have learning disabilities and therefore are not usually in gifted programs.
Of course there needs to be special curriculum for advanced and gifted children.But if it's a program to expose kids to great cultural hints and give them new experiences- well, every child needs that. Sometimes the kids who don't learn as well benefit from those programs the most.

So if it's advanced reading or math you are okay with it but if its any other type of enrichment you feel it should be offered to all?

This is IMO where we have become derailed on how we view education. When I went to school, SpEd kids had their own classes, they had smaller groups, specialized teachers etc. So the bright kids had access to some enrichment also. What is truly wrong with that? Why do we have this mentallity that all students are equal, they are not.

Why do we spend so much to bring low kids to average and not to help brite kids excel?

The general mentallity is if a child is low, the school SHOULD pull out all the stops, provide unlimited resources etc. to help bring the child up to the bar. BUT if the child is above average, very above average or even gifted we are pretty much on our own to find sources and enrichment opportunities. When we find them, we are supposed to offer to all students

No one blinks when a SpEd parent pushes a school for resources and extra attention or what ever it is that their child needs but when a parent of a smart kid wants the same, we are told we are elitists etc.

We are dumbing down our kids, of course parents want their kids in the better programs, they want their kids to be in GT or whatever it is we call it these days. They know that their child will benefit from an advanced program, plain and simple.
The mentallity that some have to include all kids in classrooms, to provide all resources to bring up lower kids does not sit well with parents who know their kids should be held to a higher standard, who know that their children are not being challenged and who know that the resources are being used for the low kids, some of whom may never be able to even reach average and yet that is what the system is trying to do.

It may not be politically correct but its obvious to me by the actions of parents that while they may say they like inclusion/mainstreaming and that all kids should be treated the same, their actions speak differently.

I happen to be somewhat vocal, I do not think we should treat all kids the same. I think we are doing our general population a huge disservice. Not all kids are above average, accept it and move on.

 

[GinnyEmma]

no kid should have 6 hours of homework a night consistently.

 

[Art 1]

I haven't read all the responses but the "overwhelming NEED" for G/T classes are to satisfy the parents that all seem to have perfect children . The VAST majority of the kids in these classes are neither gifted nor talented--good students, yes, but a truly gifted child, no. Back in the day, these classes were simply called "advanced" classes and that is what most of these kids really need. I am glad our schools don't go overboard with the whole gifted thing. Yes, they have a program but it is VERY difficult to get into and the kids that are in the program are truly gifted. For the advanced students they have many opportunities for accelerated classes, etc., which is how it should be. Our schools are also very good at working with kids on an individual basis as needed. DD's boyfriend is a whiz at math. He started taking classes at the high school for math in 7th grade. He is now a freshman and next year will start taking college level classes offered at our school. As a junior he will attend a local college for more math classes. He is a good student in other classes but not quite this advanced. He got the second highest score in our state on the National Math test for seniors in high school. I tease DD when she has a math problem to ask him for help (she is a sophomore--I am mostly serious though).

I agree with you 100%. This is more about the parents ego.

 

[cabanafrau]

no kid should have 6 hours of homework a night consistently.

There was a time I shared your opinion. I've learned there are kids who can do this, engage in extracurriculars, be social, engage in community service and thrive. Some kids have a fire in their belly and will take on the world given the chance.

I absolutely do agree that this isn't the path for all kids, even for some incredibly gifted and talented ones. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[dngnb8]

My problem is that kids who are fed a steady stream of "you're gifted" begin to believe that they don't need to work hard. In many cases here, the kids really develop bad/superior attitudes and poor work ethics.

Are you sure? I used to say that, even about my daughter. Then I found out she has a learning disability. I also found out, that many gifted kids are twice gifted.

Most of the gifted children I know without learning disabilities have good "work ethics". Most of those who had what is "perceived" as poor work ethics, had learning disabilities.

Imagine how I felt when I was told? I leaned on her pretty hard for not getting her work done, called he lazy, etc. It wasnt her fault. And more often then not, it is because of a disability, and not attitude.

I shed tears over that guilt. I was screaming at her for not trying, for not caring. For throwing away her education. Grounded her, didnt allow her activities. She was literally punished for being disabled.

That was a harsh lesson for me to learn, and in the grand scheme of life, it is something I can never take back. I hope you NEVER had to learn it the way I did. I hope you learn from my mistake. I hope...

 

[GinnyEmma]

I agree with you 100%. This is more about the parents ego.

ditto. It is encouraging poor behaivor, including lying and cheating. Good students are more concerned about the persception of others than learning. Parents are too, sadly.

 

[dngnb8]

I agree with you 100%. This is more about the parents ego.

It is statements like this that show an incredible lack of understanding and knowledge.

 

[GinnyEmma]

It is statements like this that show an incredible lack of understanding and knowledge.

lol, of course parents never push kids for bragging rights.

 

[ccgirl]

lol, of course parents never push kids for bragging rights.

No. I know I don't and I'm sure there are others the same. I push my DD to do the best she can. Period. I don't give a rat's patootie what others think about me or her. What others think about you is not what's important in life. It's what you think of yourself that is.

I didn't send my DD to private school so she can brag. I sent her there because it is the best fit for her emotionally and academically.

I didn't send her to competitive swimming so I can brag. I sent her there because she likes it and is good at it. I "brag" as much as when she finishes last as when she finishes first.

I certainly didn't sign her up for soccer so I can brag. She scores on the wrong goal quite often. Not her thing but she likes it.

I don't do anything for bragging rights. I feel that is quite shallow. But, I am certainly not going to feel bad when why child succeeds at something either.

 

[ccgirl]

ditto. It is encouraging poor behaivor, including lying and cheating. Good students are more concerned about the persception of others than learning. Parents are too, sadly.

Confused by this. Pretty sure any student has the ability to lie and cheat. Good students are more concerned with furthering their knowledge and getting good grades than the percepton of others.

 

[okeydokey]

ditto. It is encouraging poor behaivor, including lying and cheating. Good students are more concerned about the persception of others than learning. Parents are too, sadly.

How is my son's gifted program about him lying and cheating? Do you think I encourage him to lie and cheat? I can guarantee you that he cares more about learning than any other person I know.

 

[okeydokey]

It is statements like this that show an incredible lack of understanding and knowledge.

It really is. As long as I know that my child is getting the services that are best for him, they can call him whatever names they want. I do find it sad that an adult has to make fun of and insult a smart, hardworking kid for being smart and hardworking. Not sure what they want us to do with them.

 

[dngnb8]

lol, of course parents never push kids for bragging rights.

When you fight for what is best for your child, its being a good parent. When someone else does, its bragging rights.

There is a word for that.

 

[dngnb8]

It really is. As long as I know that my child is getting the services that are best for him, they can call him whatever names they want. I do find it sad that an adult has to make fun of and insult a smart, hardworking kid for being smart and hardworking. Not sure what they want us to do with them.

I could play their game and call it bitterness

 

[ccgirl]

The funny thing is, I don't even have a "gifted" child but I am on "their" side so to speak. I am on the side of every child, actually. Education is not a one size fits all and the sooner these school districts learn that the better off they will all be. I really can't believe the jealousy around here. Who really cares if one child is smarter, taller, thinner, faster, a better football, soccer, hockey player etc. That's not what parents of the "academically gifted" students are doing. They are just trying to find the right resources for their child just as those with students with learning disabilities. My mom used to always tell me, "no matter how good you think you are there is always going to be someone better than you." That is what I teach my children too but they are taught to respect everyone regardless. I wish adults could do the same.

 

[GinnyEmma]

When you fight for what is best for your child, its being a good parent. When someone else does, its bragging rights.

There is a word for that.

eh, I've seen too many kids pushed into courses that they were above them. I have also seen parents attempt to bribe the people making the decisions. And no, I didn't take the bribe.

Gifted and smart are two separate things. Kids need to be given an education that appropriate. Parents are just as capable of enriching the lives of their child as the school is. We somehow manage on our own dollar.

 

[GinnyEmma]

Confused by this. Pretty sure any student has the ability to lie and cheat. Good students are more concerned with furthering their knowledge and getting good grades than the percepton of others.

We are having huge issues with students in the elite courses cheating and feeling it justified. FTR, we are seeing an increase in drug use in this population also. Sorry.