Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[NotUrsula]

So you're supposed to get practice for these tests, but if they think youve gotten practice, then it's bad.
Wow.
I'm really glad I don't care about this stuff with my kid.

They don't want the child actually repeatedly stepping through sample tests with a psychologist for practice. However, having the parents work through things like mazes and puzzles and color wheels with them is rather necessary if they are going to do well at working through such things before they have ever been in a real classroom. Also, if your child cannot identify number groupings up through 10 he will not do well on the test; it has a lot of that sort of thing. (you know, lay out beads on the desk in groups, then ask the child to tell you which cup has 7 blue ones in it.)

 

[bumbershoot]

I feel like the OP is saying that gifted kids are "at risk", if in a normal classroom, because they might get too bored and just stop working, etc etc.

I agree with that.

But I think people are hearing the OP and thinking the OP is saying the schools accept "at risk" kids who are gifted over "not at risk" kids who are gifted. "At risk" here meaning poor, etc etc.

I don't think that's what the OP is saying, though.


In 1st grade or so I was tested and put in the ELP program (CA in the mid-70s, that was their term and I never knew what it meant...was later changed to GATE). I left class and went to the junior high school and was exposed to extra things that the other kids weren't exposed to. Never seemed like a program that helped a kid do more work on whatever they needed for school, BUT just *other* things. I never understood the point. I didn't see why the other kids back at my elementary school didn't get to see this stuff. Some would do well with it, others wouldn't, but at least we'd all get the same chance.

I hated being pulled from my class. Very shy, didn't like how everyone looked at me when I left and came back. And it was weird, because I was NEVER the top performer in class, grades-wise. I had several friends who did much better, but didn't test into the ELP program. Kinda weird.

And then my brother, who is just brilliant, actually failed the test, because they had contexts that didn't work for him. Cartoons in the test, but we were PBS kids only. The test had changed in the 3 years between when I took it and when he took it, and the cartoon characters weren't in my test or I would have failed too. So weird, because he's possibly the most intelligent person I know.

AND it's not like my mind is a big problem-solving mind. Those brain teasers that get told...I never get them. If anything, I've realized in the last year, my brain is more weird than anything else. But the tests seemed to think that I had *something* going on, some extra oomph that my straight-A friends didn't have. If I hadn't been so shy and afraid of being seen...maybe some amazing things could have happened. As it was, I discovered boys, noticed that the boys I knew looked at me funny when I knew the answers and got good grades, so I dumbed myself down by the time 7th grade started, and stayed in the lower-end classes until the end of sophomore year when I had a "I can't take it anymore" moment and bumped myself up to Honors classes again (too scared and nervous for AP!).



Back to elementary school and comparing my B self to my A friends...

BUT I moved faster through the material than the other kids did, always, I was the one who finished the test first and then sat there until someone else did, waiting for others to turn it in so I didn't draw attention to myself. And I would read really fast (my brother reads faster, of course) and get the Reading work done. They never had extra work for me, so I got to just sit there. (that's where I think the G&T classes should help...MORE work for the kids to do! not *different* work) I was extremely bored in class, and if I hadn't been a little rule-follower I might have gotten myself into trouble. So in a way I was "at risk", though I never would have even thought of dropping out or doing poorly on purpose...

I was popular in high school and I think you have a lot more fun in high school if youre popular, which is why I think it's important. High school years are tough on every kid but if you're unpopular, it would just make it so much harder.

By the time I got to my 20th high school reunion, and the 20th is where the cliques start wearing off, I realized that EVERYONE I talked to felt uncomfortable in HS, they didn't feel popular, they felt weird and different...even the ones that WERE popular...they felt just as awkward as the others did.

I want my son to look nice. I wouldn't give him a bowl cut like DH's mom did (though DS has ASKED for a bowl cut b/c he thinks it would make him look like Harry Potter in the first movie, and he likes that look). I won't put him in horrible clothes. But if he's not into the popularity thing when he's older, who cares? It's 4 years of his life. That's it. The whole rest of your life is not high school....

I do know what the OP means by gifted kids being at risk for dropping out. I come from a family of high achievers who dropped out of high school. Funny, but of my siblings, it's the smart but not gifted ones who graduated in the normal way from high school. The three of us who were in TAG dropped out or got adult diplomas, but all ended up getting advanced degrees in later life. Go figure. My smartest sister dropped out at 13, yet got a 1600 on her SAT (back in the day when that was the max). I guess what I'm trying to get at is that gifted and good grades/school success don't always go together, especially for teens.

Reminds me of a friend from HS! We knew she did well, and we knew she was bored out of her skull. She was a year older than the rest of us, so we weren't in her classes, but we knew she had a time limit on school. She dropped out half a year before graduation. She had read a book called something like Guerilla Homeschooling and decided to just teach herself b/c she could do a better job of it (and since we both went to the same school, I AGREE!!!!).

She later got her GED, and then teaching credentials, and she's now an elementary school teacher.

And she's a bonafide member of MENSA...

The kids school did not have a gifted program, never much heard of it before the DIS. Even so 99% of the graduates go on to college, most to the top schools. To me it sounds kind of strange reading and hearing about "gifted" children. Just something not right about it.

Sounds like your school IS a G&T school. Having 99% of graduates go to college is an amazing figure! (then again my 75% high school helped me b/c the college thought "hmm, she must be really determined, since not everyone goes to college from there")

 

[5lilfish]

By the time I got to my 20th high school reunion, and the 20th is where the cliques start wearing off, I realized that EVERYONE I talked to felt uncomfortable in HS, they didn't feel popular, they felt weird and different...even the ones that WERE popular...they felt just as awkward as the others did.

There must be something about being out of high school for 20 yrs. I never cared about popularity. I had plenty of friends but was not in the popular crowd. I definitely cannot understand the thinking behond being more concerned with how popular my child is over how well they do in school (not that i stress about either...they are on the honor roll, but I don't freak over whether they get a 91 or a 95). I did nore really keep my high school friends after graduation. I went to my 10 yr reunion because I was curious enough about what people were up to. This year is my 20 yr reunion...now I find that I just don't give a darn. i may go (at least to the informal gathering on Fri night), simply because I still live here, but I really don't care what these people are up to anymore. I don't mean that in a nasty way...it just doesn't have any impact on my life. I am happily married and have 5 kids. High School doesn't even feel like it was the same lifetime anymore.

Jess

 

[Poohforyou]

The kids school did not have a gifted program, never much heard of it before the DIS. Even so 99% of the graduates go on to college, most to the top schools. To me it sounds kind of strange reading and hearing about "gifted" children. Just something not right about it.

What do you consider top schools? I think it's all in your own perspective. For me top would mean Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Georgetown etc. I don't like the term gifted because it doesn't apply to 99% of kids in G&T programs. I think academically advanced is probably a better description.

I guess the OP has a different situation in NYC than in many areas of the country where kids take 1 test to get into a top public school and if they don't make it in the rest of their schooling is affected. Where I am that isn't the case. Kids here get a top notch education whether they're in advanced classes or not.

 

[5lilfish]

I don't like the term gifted because it doesn't apply to 99% of kids in G&T programs. I think academically advanced is probably a better description.

I don't like the word gifted either. I always feel like I am trying to say that my son is somehow better than others, and that is not how we mean to sound at all. Plus, like you said...most people in GT are not truly gifted. I use the word gifted, in threads like this, to describe my son. I'm not sure if he is officially gifted or not. He is one smart 14 yr old. He has had a different way of thinking that was obvious from a very young age. Of course, I'm not sure, at this point, that academically advanced it the right choice of words either. He is an 8th grader taking 3 high school courses. His grades are ok..honor roll, but not fantastic. If he put any real effort into school, his grades could be great. He does all of his work, but he has a way of knowing exactly how much effort he needs to put in to keep his grades at a certain level. He is not moved to do anything much beyond that.

Jess

 

[Art 1]

What do you consider top schools? I think it's all in your own perspective. For me top would mean Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Georgetown etc. I don't like the term gifted because it doesn't apply to 99% of kids in G&T programs. I think academically advanced is probably a better description.

I guess the OP has a different situation in NYC than in many areas of the country where kids take 1 test to get into a top public school and if they don't make it in the rest of their schooling is affected. Where I am that isn't the case. Kids here get a top notch education whether they're in advanced classes or not.

Those. Those, CMU, ND and the Military Academies.

 

[golfgal]

I haven't read all the responses but the "overwhelming NEED" for G/T classes are to satisfy the parents that all seem to have perfect children . The VAST majority of the kids in these classes are neither gifted nor talented--good students, yes, but a truly gifted child, no. Back in the day, these classes were simply called "advanced" classes and that is what most of these kids really need. I am glad our schools don't go overboard with the whole gifted thing. Yes, they have a program but it is VERY difficult to get into and the kids that are in the program are truly gifted. For the advanced students they have many opportunities for accelerated classes, etc., which is how it should be. Our schools are also very good at working with kids on an individual basis as needed. DD's boyfriend is a whiz at math. He started taking classes at the high school for math in 7th grade. He is now a freshman and next year will start taking college level classes offered at our school. As a junior he will attend a local college for more math classes. He is a good student in other classes but not quite this advanced. He got the second highest score in our state on the National Math test for seniors in high school. I tease DD when she has a math problem to ask him for help (she is a sophomore--I am mostly serious though).

 

[rwdavis2]

Our schools have Honors, G&T, and Advanced Placement (elligible for college credit). We pushed our oldest daughter into Honors to keep her away from the more undersirable/unmotivated kids in her classes. As a freshman she would sometimes have classes with juniors/seniors who were disruptive and could not handle the work. To get away from them the next year we put her in a few honors classes. Problem pretty much solved.

 

[okeydokey]

Honestly, I don't care what you call it. It is not a status symbol. I could care less what it is called. My son has been offered services that benefit him. For the first time, in his first year in the program, something was difficult for him and that was good. It is what he needs.

I will not apologize because my son happens to be born with a high IQ any more than I would apologize for his being born left handed or with large feet or brown eyes. I don't get the need of people to ridicule kids who test into these programs, as though they or their families should be guilty about something.

 

[golfgal]

Maybe at your school.

Heck here you can't even get that percentage to stay in school let alone go to college.

That is really sad....I know my parents comment about this problem in MO all the time. My step-mom has a friend that is an aeronautical engineer who volunteers to go to high schools all over MO to get girls interested in the sciences. She finally just gave up because she couldn't get girls to come and the conversations with the parents usually were along the lines of "my kid is doing just fine and hopes to go to secretary school". Not that there is anything wrong with being a secretary but when the majority of your graduating class only has their goals set this high, it's kind of sad.

We have a 94% 4 year college placement rate in our district, another 4% go on to military or community college so 98% of our graduates go on to some kind of post-secondary education (public school).

 

[golfgal]

Honestly, I don't care what you call it. It is not a status symbol. I could care less what it is called. My son has been offered services that benefit him. For the first time, in his first year in the program, something was difficult for him and that was good. It is what he needs.

I will not apologize because my son happens to be born with a high IQ any more than I would apologize for his being born left handed or with large feet or brown eyes. I don't get the need of people to ridicule kids who test into these programs, as though they or their families should be guilty about something.

But is IS for most parents that have a child that has been selected for a class like this. A high IQ doesn't always mean they are gifted and that is the problem. My oldest has a very high IQ--which we found out about because we were having him tested for learning disabilities. He is in no way "gifted" though. He is a pretty normal kid who probably does have learning disabilities but because his IQ is so high, he doesn't show up on the radar as having them. Our youngest son is also a very good student, school is VERY easy for him. He finally has a class that is challenging him-Spanish III with a very, very difficult teacher and he is loving it. It drives DD16 nuts because he NEVER studies but aces pretty much everything where as she needs to study to get her A's. He was tested for the gifted program in our district and while they agree he is a great student, he is not gifted-and I agree. Being gifted is more of the way kids think about problems or how they reason through things vs getting good grades.

 

[okeydokey]

But is IS for most parents that have a child that has been selected for a class like this. A high IQ doesn't always mean they are gifted and that is the problem. My oldest has a very high IQ--which we found out about because we were having him tested for learning disabilities. He is in no way "gifted" though. He is a pretty normal kid who probably does have learning disabilities but because his IQ is so high, he doesn't show up on the radar as having them. Our youngest son is also a very good student, school is VERY easy for him. He finally has a class that is challenging him-Spanish III with a very, very difficult teacher and he is loving it. It drives DD16 nuts because he NEVER studies but aces pretty much everything where as she needs to study to get her A's. He was tested for the gifted program in our district and while they agree he is a great student, he is not gifted-and I agree. Being gifted is more of the way kids think about problems or how they reason through things vs getting good grades.

Don't tell me how I feel or how most parents with kids in these programs feel. You are not me and you are not one of those parents. What audacity!

 

[golfgal]

Another example, we were having dinner a couple years ago with some friends from college. They were complaining because their kids did not get into the gifted program in their district so they decided to pull their kids out and homeschool them-all because they didn't get into the G/T program. Their kids were doing fine in school, good students but certainly not outstanding. Very bright kids but again, not gifted. The problem being, a couple of their neighbor's kids were in the G/T program and that made them mad. Very much a "status" symbol in their eyes. They also seem to forget that he graduated from this tiny high school in way northern MN (I think there were 30 kids in his graduating class), was national champion in Humorous speaking for speech for 4 years running in high school, is now an Ear, Nose, Throat dr with a very lucrative practice-but was never in a G/T program. There kids are now back in the schools in their district (which are VERY good schools) and seem to be doing just fine after a year of being homeschooled.

 

[golfgal]

Don't tell me how I feel or how most parents with kids in these programs feel. You are not me and you are not one of those parents. What audacity!

Having talked with many, many, many parents over the years about this, I feel pretty qualified to know what many of them are thinking. What audacity for you to say that I can't express my educated opinion on this subject? Oh, and if you read my post, I never said anything about how YOU feel.

 

[okeydokey]

Having talked with many, many, many parents over the years about this, I feel pretty qualified to know what many of them are thinking. What audacity for you to say that I can't express my educated opinion on this subject?

How is yours an educated opinion? You have said you don't have a gifted kid, but that you know how those parents feel and it's just a status symbol. Your anecdotal evidence about all the people you have talked to does not trump own opinion about my actual gifted kid. When I say it's not a status symbol to me, that's the truth. I never talk to other people in real life about my son because there is no need to. Nobody but my husband and his teacher know that he got a prefect score on the state standardized testing. He doesn't even know. I am supremely grateful that there is a program at school that meets his needs, but if you want to believe that my only motivation is to "brag" to other people, you go right ahead.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

What do you consider top schools? I think it's all in your own perspective. For me top would mean Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Georgetown etc. I don't like the term gifted because it doesn't apply to 99% of kids in G&T programs. I think academically advanced is probably a better description.

I guess the OP has a different situation in NYC than in many areas of the country where kids take 1 test to get into a top public school and if they don't make it in the rest of their schooling is affected. Where I am that isn't the case. Kids here get a top notch education whether they're in advanced classes or not.

Statistically 2.275% of children will be "gifted" in the technical, i.e. "genius, 130+ IQ, 2+ standard deviations from the mean," sense of the word. Therefore, presuming that 10% of a class is in the gifted program (called TAG in our district), 22.75% of the students in the average TAG program will have genius IQs (assuming they select the children for inclusion correctly). So the actual number of gifted children in the average TAG class is far more than the 1% in your example (in fact, the "average" classroom will be 2.275% gifted), but you are still correct that not every child in the median TAG program will have an IQ of 130 or above. That, of course, assumes an even distribution of IQs across every school, and unfortunately due to other factors outside of the control of this model, that is generally not accurate.

My DD6 was put into the TAG program midway through her Kindergarten year, along with three of her classmates. I don't know if she's technically a genius, but I do know that she is reading at the fifth grade level, can do advanced math (including the ability to multiply Roman numerals, which I still cannot do easily), understands the fundamentals of chemistry and biology, etc. I do not know whether that's a result of the environment in which she grew up or of a naturally high IQ but I speculate that it's a combination of both. What I do know is that she has loved Kindergarten from the first day, but she's loving it even more with the extra challenges that the school is now providing. We were told that typically the TAG program starts in first grade in our district, but there was this little nexus of four children in her class that the Principal felt needed extra intellectual stimulation so she made it happen. She is also a sweet little girl who loves ballet, show choir, soccer, piano, roller skating, and playing with her friends, so her intelligence is but one factor in what makes her special.

As far as college attendance rates, I remember when I found out that in this country still less than 50% of high school seniors go on to a four-year college because at my high school it was never considered an option to not pursue at least a bachelor's degree. 100% of my graduating class went on to college, as well as 100% of the classes on either side of mine. It was, however, a selective prep school, so that is their model and mission.

 

[ccgirl]

There is so much talk on this board about having gifted children.
I don't really get it...I'm just happy if my stepson does his best and doesn't get bad grades. More important than that is if he's a good kid- kind, responsible, generous etc.
Although I'll admit this...even though I'm not too into if he can be gifted, I am into being popular. It's important to me that he has the right clothes and is good looking and all that, because I care more about popularity than about getting the best grades. (People here have told me that's because I'm still young and when I'm older I'll feel differently.)
Maybe I'll understand all this gifted stuff someday if I have a baby of my own. Maybe I'll feel differently then, who knows. Maybe I'll want my baby to be gifted too!

You would get it if you had a child that was gifted though. I like to say gifted academically. I truly believe all children are gifted at something. My D is not "gifted" academically. I have no problem with that at all. Just like I don't have a problem with children that are "gifted". Why should they be forced to learn at a level below them - just as a special needs child or child with a learning disability shouldn't be forced to learn above them. As far as your popular thinking - I'm not sure I have ever read anything more shallow on the boards. The thing is ...I don't want my children to be anything than the best they can be. If that means below "average", "average", "very bright", "gifted"..whatever! It is my job to be an advocate for my child and get the learning tools they need.

Mamacatnv.
That mentally gifted minors program sounds like something that should have been open to every child regardless of mental ability.
I can understand having more difficult curriculum for gifted children, but the program you're describing, mentally gifted minors, sounds like it was something that just exposed you to lots of different educational and cultural things, which could have been a huge benefit to a learning disabled child. That program sounds like it actually would have really been great for students with minor learning disabilities. It's a shame it was only available for kids with good test scores.
I guess I just feel for the wonderful programs not available to kids who are smart, bright kids but who have learning disabilities and therefore are not usually in gifted programs.
Of course there needs to be special curriculum for advanced and gifted children.
But if it's a program to expose kids to great cultural hints and give them new experiences- well, every child needs that. Sometimes the kids who don't learn as well benefit from those programs the most.

I will agree that the cultural experiences should have been open to all students. You can thank budget cuts for that, I'm sure.

Sometimes when I come on the disboards I think if I hear he word "gifted" one more time I'll be sick. It seems everyone has a gifted child who has tested into some special program and those who don't are anxious to prove that their child is gifted too.
There's nothing wrong with gifted children but lately it bugs because I've heard he word "gifted" Sooooo much here.

Read my post above. My child is not gifted and I'm not anxious to prove otherwise. I am interested in being an advocate to getting the education that best fits my child(ren).

I was popular in high school and I think you have a lot more fun in high school if youre popular, which is why I think it's important. High school years are tough on every kid but if you're unpopular, it would just make it so much harder. Wanting popularity for my kid and being glad that he's popular isn't about being vain or shallow, it's about wanting him to have the best high school experience he can and be in all the social stuff. I'm not saying that is more important than grades, but I do think he social part of high school is very important.
And FYI i didn't say your child makes me sick. I said i get sick of hearing the word "gifted" used so much. That word is thrown around so much that i don't think it really means all that much anymore.

Wow..just wow....I had plenty of fun in high school. If you are truly interested in teaching your stepson how to be a good person, being popular has nothing to do with it. A lot of those popular students didn't have many true friends and the friends they thought they had would turn them like a dime. So sad

Leajess99
i was popular and I'm happy where I am without regrets. I'm sorry that your former classmates haven't experienced that.
Clearly, popularity is NOT the MOST important thing, but in my experience it DID make the high school years more FUN.
Maybe you just have the same eyeball rolling reaction to the word popular that I have to he word gifted.

Again...putting too much stock in being popular. What exactly does that mean? Having a lot of friends to hang out with? No thanks, I much prefer my route. A good education with true friends; make no mistake about it I still had a GREAT time. Working hard in college and having a great career where I can support myself. (and my children and DH for that matter.) Funny...one of the more "popular" girls in H.S. ended up getting pregnant, dropping out of college, and is now on welfare with 4 babies from 4 different daddies. Turns out she was real popular with the boys. Where did that get her in life?

Yes I went back and edited my post because it was rude.
Anyway, nope I guess I'm not smart at all.
I was always on an IEP with bad learning disabilities across the board. I barely made it through school and wanted to drop out of college because I couldn't get into the program I was trying to get into and could barely make passing grades. I did not drop out but it was the biggest challenge ever and I had to do an "easy" major that I wasn't even interested in, just because it had the only requirements I could pass.
My stepson struggles in reading but is fine in math.
But my parents told me the same thing I now tell stepson. Try your best, work hard to get passing grades, and focus on your strengths- people at school like you and your popular which means you have the opportunity to be a positive influence. You can also find other areas of life you have talent in, maybe it doesn't involve school but you will be good at other things (art, athletics etc.)

As a parent, you learn to focus on your children's strength in order to build them up. The popular kids aren't the only ones that can make a positive influence. Every single person has that ability. There is a student in my DD's school that is very shy and doesn't have a lot of friends. Yet, she volunteers at the food pantry and goes to nursing homes to visit the elderly. She is having a positive influence on a LOT of people all without being popular. Being popular in H.S. is a temporary thing. I teach my children to be more focused on the permanent things...being good on the inside as that cannot be taken away from you. I was very pretty in H.S. and my mom always said don't be focused too much on the outside because that can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye. I am so very grateful she taught me that lesson other than a shallow lesson of being popular is important.

Wow, I just read her response you had quoted and just had to laugh. I could care less about being popular (had more than enough friends and high school was fun though I still studied and got pretty good grades) and thus far my kids are the same way.

Clothing changes over time and looks fade away and then what do you have??

This is a fabulous post.

The local Catholic school is like that. It's a great school, but it drops kids who do not fit that mold (including any girls who get pregnant, any kids who go through struggles that cause them to fail too many classes etc.) It's unfair to compare them to a public school that takes and educates all kids, problems or not, from all sorts of backgrounds.

Exactly. My DD goes to a Catholic school and you have to get good grades to stay in. Misbehave, get bad grades and you are out of there. You are absolutely right it is unfair to compare them to a public school which admits and maintains all students.

Another example, we were having dinner a couple years ago with some friends from college. They were complaining because their kids did not get into the gifted program in their district so they decided to pull their kids out and homeschool them-all because they didn't get into the G/T program. Their kids were doing fine in school, good students but certainly not outstanding. Very bright kids but again, not gifted. The problem being, a couple of their neighbor's kids were in the G/T program and that made them mad. Very much a "status" symbol in their eyes. They also seem to forget that he graduated from this tiny high school in way northern MN (I think there were 30 kids in his graduating class), was national champion in Humorous speaking for speech for 4 years running in high school, is now an Ear, Nose, Throat dr with a very lucrative practice-but was never in a G/T program. There kids are now back in the schools in their district (which are VERY good schools) and seem to be doing just fine after a year of being homeschooled.

I think that is the exception rather than the norm. Maybe just around here. Are there parents who think their children are better than others? Absolutely, but those parents are usually the ones who think they are better than others as well.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

But is IS for most parents that have a child that has been selected for a class like this. A high IQ doesn't always mean they are gifted and that is the problem. My oldest has a very high IQ--which we found out about because we were having him tested for learning disabilities. He is in no way "gifted" though. He is a pretty normal kid who probably does have learning disabilities but because his IQ is so high, he doesn't show up on the radar as having them. Our youngest son is also a very good student, school is VERY easy for him. He finally has a class that is challenging him-Spanish III with a very, very difficult teacher and he is loving it. It drives DD16 nuts because he NEVER studies but aces pretty much everything where as she needs to study to get her A's. He was tested for the gifted program in our district and while they agree he is a great student, he is not gifted-and I agree. Being gifted is more of the way kids think about problems or how they reason through things vs getting good grades.

I disagree with your central premise, because I have acquired plenty of real status symbols and a bright daughter is not something that I would ever hold up as a status symbol. At the same time, let me proffer two questions that have always bothered me:

Why is it socially acceptable for parents to be proud of their children who are fantastic athletes but not of their children who are very intelligent?

Why is is socially unacceptable to say that somebody is, most likely, more intelligent than somebody else, when it's not socially unacceptable to say that somebody is stronger, faster, better looking, wealthier, etc. than somebody else?

You seem to equate being proud with possessing a status symbol, and that implies that you see children, in general, as having potential as status symbols. You say that you have acquired this knowledge from how you perceive and process your friends' concerns with their own children's inclusion in TAG programs, but your acceptance of that perspective implies acceptance of the central premise.

That is sad and demonstrates a very skewed perspective, in my opinion.

 

[golfgal]

I disagree with your central premise, because I have acquired plenty of real status symbols and a bright daughter is not something that I would ever hold up as a status symbol. At the same time, let me proffer two questions that have always bothered me:

Why is it socially acceptable for parents to be proud of their children who are fantastic athletes but not of their children who are very intelligent?

Why is is socially unacceptable to say that somebody is, most likely, more intelligent than somebody else, when it's not socially unacceptable to say that somebody is stronger, faster, better looking, wealthier, etc. than somebody else?

You seem to equate being proud with possessing a status symbol, and that implies that you see children, in general, as having potential as status symbols. You say that you have acquired this knowledge from how you perceive and process your friends' concerns with their own children's inclusion in TAG programs, but your acceptance of that perspective implies acceptance of the central premise.

That is sad and demonstrates a very skewed perspective, in my opinion.

I am not saying it is not socially acceptable to be proud of a good student-around here the good students are more highly praised than the outstanding athletes-who get their fair share of praise to but academics are stressed. The question was "Why the overwhelming demand" the answer is "because it is a status symbol for many parents". It has nothing to do with kids that really ARE gifted but even you have to admit that MOST kids in your G/T program are really just good students-not really GIFTED.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's so frustrating to see so many people so against other people's children succeeding in school and receiving any recognition or advantage for that fact.

Wonder how many people would raise an eye at a football coach spending any of his spare time working w/ a group of kids he felt had raw talent & could achieve much, much more putting in some extra work to develop it? (Aside from any parents/athletes bitter because they haven't been identified as especially talented by the coach of course.)

Of course I'm the whackadoodle that believes schools are for education & should focus on education. Particularly in these times of very challenging finances for education, I think academics should be the purview of schools. I'm sure there are other avenues that would open up for athletics if schools decided to stick with the business at hand.