Getting honors classes in high school against recommendation

[princesspumpkin]

DD is about to start HS and her schedule has been made out for next year to include Honors Biology. Math is her favorite subject, and she has always done well in it, but was not placed in Honors Geometry. Since she meets the qualifications, I called the school and after a few more calls, they placed her in it.

My dilemma is whether we should try to get her placed in Honors World History. She meets some of the criteria, but not all, but she wants to be in it. I feel that she can handle the work.

How many parents have been successful in getting their kids' schedule changed, even if the school doesn't think that they should? For the record, they look at both English and Social Studies from middle school in deciding. Her SS teacher gave her the go ahead, the English teacher (in which she has had all As) thinks she should see how freshman year goes, then try for Honors in 10th grade.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[golfgal]

It depends on your school. Here you can start in honors classes and if you find them too difficult you can move into the college prep track or the regular track but you can't switch mid-year from one of those tracks to honors.

Somehow our kids didn't end up in geometry in 9th grade-there was some goof up with their middle school schedule or something. Our school offers a summer geometry program, which we knew so we didn't go through the paperwork to put them into geometry during the school year. They condense a full year of geometry into 6 weeks--which is a GREAT way to take geometry. They would have been just fine in geometry this past year but we saw math as their 'sluff' class this year . They will graduate with 5 years of high school math this way.

In our school if a student qualifies for most of the honors classes, chances are they will do just fine in all honors classes. Our honors classes are more self-directed. They don't use the book a lot in class but they do need to read the book for homework and tests, where as in the regular and CP classes, they use the book more in class and move at a slower pace.

Personally, if she was a solid A student in middle school, I would have her placed in honors to start--you can always scale back if needed. The other thing we found is that the kids are better behaved and more motivated in the honors classes. I do know that it is a much harder leap to go from a regular class in 9th grade to honors in 10th grade.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If she wants to be in it, then go for it.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I don't know that I'd push the issue. You already fixed the geometry problem, which I agree, needed to be fixed. But for you to go back again, and try to get your DD into another honors course against the teacher's recommendation--it makes you into "that" parent.

Keep in mind, too, she's an incoming freshman. There may be adjustment issues, and it might be nice for her to have a comparative "slacker" course. My DD is a freshman right now (for 3 more days)--I had wanted her to take Honors Biology this past year. She opted for Honors Earth and Science--I think she has a 99.25 average (slacker!). But, what's good about it is, it was such an easy A for her. She found Honors English to be much more challenging than expected, and Honors Algebra we knew would be a lot of work for her.

Keep in mind, too--math is the only subject that really builds one year to the next. It's a lot easier to go into an honors English, History, or even science course in the upper HS grades.

 

[java]

Transition to High School is a tough one. Being in 2 honors classes is going to be a heavy load. Around here the English honors class it the Killer- just a slam on work- reading reading and more reading along with papers papers and more papers.

History is right up there too.

My son was in Honors Math and Science freshman year and honestly that was enough- he placed in the honors English class but we opted to not take it.

If she has any interest in activities- what's the push? However if your daughter wants to try it all- let her. They will allow you to drop down in our district if it isn't working out.
Personally we decided to allow him to adjust before so heavily loading his schedule.

 

[golfgal]

I would check with any parents you know of current 9th graders and get their take. Our kids have taken all honors classes this year (except math) and haven't had massive amounts of homework or issues with the transition. Each school and each child is different. I know some of their friends are complaining about the "hours and hours" of homework they have but I think more of that comes from doing homework while on Facebook, texting and listening to their Ipods vs really having that much work. Our kids MAYBE have an hour a night.

 

[a1tinkfans]

I can only say that getting a teachers recommendation is really important in the schools evaluation. Sometimes they "see" who can thrive versus, perhaps struggling mid way thru when it is very difficult to opt out of a class.
My ds took AP Bio, AP SS, College Bus Law (and just got an award) and opted for a second language this year. He was offered English and Math honors and he/we turned them down. He did not want to take Honors English, too much writing (I wanted him too actually). The work he has had this year was a "heavy load" Homework each weeknight and every weekend for each class. He does not enjoy math and and after talking with guidance she said, why put the extra stress if he does not even like it. His other classes are also "heavier" classes, not the elective types, so we're ALL happy to enjoy some relaxing time over the summer. We're happy with the decisions. (meanwhile he just got the summer package for the AP classes !! and school has not even ended)
Freshman year really is an "adjustment" period. Sometimes getting a heavy load from the start can place undue pressure and actually turn a student off to the "harder work" that may have come easier at a later time (with the advanced classes, they move very quickly!).
I don't like to think that kids should not be given the chance to excel but at the same time, "school" view versus what we see with our own kids each day in their relaxed home, is a perspective you really have to give weight to.
Best of luck in her HS/educational goals.
I am so proud my son and can see your feelings are the same .

 

[java]

I would check with any parents you know of current 9th graders and get their take. Our kids have taken all honors classes this year (except math) and haven't had massive amounts of homework or issues with the transition. Each school and each child is different. I know some of their friends are complaining about the "hours and hours" of homework they have but I think more of that comes from doing homework while on Facebook, texting and listening to their Ipods vs really having that much work. Our kids MAYBE have an hour a night.

and around here the kids are actually doing hours and hours of homework in the honors English class. I have seen them doing it while working at TaeKwonDo, while they are in my car going home. These are not kids wasting time. Although I agree all schools are different. At ours the English and History classes are the ones that are heavily loaded.

 

[princesspumpkin]

I don't know that I'd push the issue. You already fixed the geometry problem, which I agree, needed to be fixed. But for you to go back again, and try to get your DD into another honors course against the teacher's recommendation--it makes you into "that" parent.

I totally agree with you about being "that" parent. That was certainly on my mind

I really appreciate all of the advice. I must admit, I would really like her to start off with only two honors classes, but like another poster said, being surrounded by more motivated kids in most of her classes is a big draw

 

[jrmasm]

Our h.s. has a waiver that parents can sign if they want their kid in a higher level class than they are recommended for.

 

[LisaR]

I would check with any parents you know of current 9th graders and get their take. Our kids have taken all honors classes this year (except math) and haven't had massive amounts of homework or issues with the transition. Each school and each child is different. I know some of their friends are complaining about the "hours and hours" of homework they have but I think more of that comes from doing homework while on Facebook, texting and listening to their Ipods vs really having that much work. Our kids MAYBE have an hour a night.

Your kids are in high school and take all honors classes but only have an hour or less of homework per night? That doesn't sound very challenging at all. My DD is the fastest reader I have ever known but the reading alone for her honors classes required hours of work each night. If the honors program only requires an hour or less of homework, does that mean the kids on the other tracks don't have any?

 

[krcit]

My dd is in Honors History and it is a tough class. Definitely the majority of her homework. She is doing very well in it but I would ask some current students about it before you try to get it changed. My dd is a very good student who never really had to do much in middle school to make the high honor roll and when she hit high school The first few weeks of school she was a stressed out wreck trying to adjust to the classes and hours of homework. Also, the classes for 9, 10 and 11 are not weighted so she's getting a 92 in an extremely hard class and she keeps missing high honor roll by 1/2 a point so you might want to keep that in mind.

 

[MELSMICE]

I sent you a P.M.

 

[golfgal]

Your kids are in high school and take all honors classes but only have an hour or less of homework per night? That doesn't sound very challenging at all. My DD is the fastest reader I have ever known but the reading alone for her honors classes required hours of work each night. If the honors program only requires an hour or less of homework, does that mean the kids on the other tracks don't have any?

Massive amounts of homework does not mean a class is "challenging". They have appropriate amounts of homework for their grade level and they use their time wisely when doing homework. Considering our high school is one of the top in the nation according to many ranking sites, I am really not concerned and they are more than adequately prepared for college given the success of students that have graduated before them and the schools those kids have attended. Based on comments here about other schools around the nation, I am quite confident that our kids will fair better getting into college then those coming from schools that think having 2 hours/night/class is doing a good job.

 

[LisaR]

Massive amounts of homework does not mean a class is "challenging". They have appropriate amounts of homework for their grade level and they use their time wisely when doing homework. Considering our high school is one of the top in the nation according to many ranking sites, I am really not concerned and they are more than adequately prepared for college given the success of students that have graduated before them and the schools those kids have attended. Based on comments here about other schools around the nation, I am quite confident that our kids will fair better getting into college then those coming from schools that think having 2 hours/night/class is doing a good job.

I agree 100% that massive amounts of homework do not make the class challenging. There is nothing I hate more than busy work. However, the books alone for honors English and history required my DD to read more than an hour per night many nights per week and she reads very quickly. With four or five challenging, honors level classes per day, I can't imagine having an hour or less of homework.

 

[golfgal]

I agree 100% that massive amounts of homework do not make the class challenging. There is nothing I hate more than busy work. However, the books alone for honors English and history required my DD to read more than an hour per night many nights per week and she reads very quickly. With four or five challenging, honors level classes per day, I can't imagine having an hour or less of homework.

Ok, I guess I didn't count the novels they had to read as "homework". They read for an hour or so before bed but they have always done that so it doesn't seem like homework. I guess I am thinking more of sitting down and doing math problems and doing their Spanish workbook type homework. They will have a lot more homework next year and even more in 11th grade, but as freshman, they don't have all that much.

 

[Rora]

At my high school, parents/students could override the recommendations of their teachers' placement. While it might not be the wisest thing to do, if you feel (and your DD feels it too!) that your DD can handle it, then try to have her placed in the class.

Not to dissuade you, but this will probably be a tough year for your DD. The middle school/high school transition is difficult and so is adjusting to the new high school "scene" (new school, new friends, new classes/teachers, being a "freshman"). I would encourage you to let her take the classes only she feels comfortable taking.

 

[Took]

Massive amounts of homework does not mean a class is "challenging". They have appropriate amounts of homework for their grade level and they use their time wisely when doing homework.

I agree. I took Honors classes and earned AP credit by taking the AP tests. I had lots of homework sometimes but not every night.

 

[ZuZugal]

You probably know your daughter and her study habits better than anyone at this point.

One thing to remember, if the honors class is just too tough, she can always move down to the "regular" class, but not the other way around. (Might want to check with your school; I think ours will move kids 4 weeks after a class starts if needed.)

Also, I think it is great to have kids in honors classes because it does put them in with a group of kids that tend to have very good study habits.

Take into consideration what extra-cirricular activities there will be and how much time she has to give to homework each night.

Talk to students who just went through that class and/or the parents of those students. I bugged every person I knew with questions before my kids started HS.

Good luck!

 

[rgf207]

My wife teaches honors math classes in High School. She continuouslhy gets students that are not recommended but the parents insisted they be placed. Most fail or barely pass.

The teachers give the recommendations for a reason. They do not feel that the child is ready for honors classes. There is nothing wrong with not being fit for honors classes.

I would reconsider. My wife's honors classes are not easy and there is a lot of work and they go fast. There isn't much time to stop on certain subject areas if a student does not grasp. If a child falls behind, it's very difficult to catch up.