Getting help for ds14-small update on post 51 and 52

[worried64]

I've posted about ds14 before under this username. Things haven't gotten any better. I know he's a teenage but in my heart know that his issues are more than just typical teenage stuff. I have three other younger kids.

Lies constantly but is extremely difficult to catch. I've punished him just based on gut feeling many times and some times, he's later admitted it. He doesn't understand the idea of "benefit of the doubt". DD12usually receives the benefit of the doubt because she is generally honest and trustworthy. He rarely receives the benefit of the doubt because he is not. This really makes him angry.

Constantly annoys the other kids in our family-pokes them in the belly, pretends to hit them, always in their faces. Constantly. I never seem to see it, he's sneaky and does it when I'm not around, denies it EVERY time. This is a huge problem in our house as it affects three other people in a negative manner. They are always saying "Why don't you ever do anything about him?" He could be a lawyer due to the many ways he defends himself when he is accused of doing something that I didn't see happen. Lately, he's been walking past his 12 year old sister muttering "**nis". I have never heard him do it, but dh is unwilling to believe that he would do it and I am totally convinced that he does it. DD12 would not fabricate that out of the blue and it is upsetting to her.

Always has his nose in other people's business-if I am correcting one of the other kids, he always pipes in with "Yea, Mark!". He tries to tell us how to parent and discipline. Always wants to be the parent.

Focuses on things and just can't let them go. Was a wreck while camping because he was nervous about the horseflies, got highly agitated and mad about them. Too many other examples to mention.

This kid has been grounded more times and for long lengths of time than any other kid I know of. We've taken away anything that means anything to him-cell phone, video games, computer use...he always returns to this behavior.

On his defense, he has a very loving, side. He's very smart, high honor roll at school, teachers have nothing but great things to say about him. No issues whatsoever at school. Doesn't have many friends at all. People he texts, peole on facebook, but only one friend who he gets together with occasionally. He is a sophmore in high school. He's an excellent musician, practices, loves cross country and track. When he's not fixating on bugging someone or sticking his nose in someone else's business, he's a very interesting kid.

I personally think he needs to see a counselor something. Perhaps he has ODD. Our other kids get along great and the house is always fairly peaceful when he is not around. We have the normal arguments but I believe that he has deeper issues.

Problem is that dh had to go to family counseling when he was a teenager due to his dad's alchoholism and hated it and felt stigmatized so he will hear none of getting help for our son. I am at the point that I will put my foot down and just do it, I feel we are doing ds no favors by not addressing this.

If you've read this far, thank you. Any help you can offer, I would appreciate.

 

[golfgal]

I agree that this is probably beyond "teenage" issues, most teens like to push buttons but they don't do it constantly. It almost sounds more like social issues and I would be tempted to say Aspergers. I would talk to his pediatrician or school counselor and see if you can get a recommendation for testing. It is a good starting point. If this doesn't pan out, start counseling and too bad what your DH says-you do need to put your foot down and help your child. If DH doesn't like it, then DH can take over the discipline for him.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I think I would try and find out why he doesn't have any friends. Is he like this with other people that aren't his siblings?

 

[worried64]

I think I would try and find out why he doesn't have any friends. Is he like this with other people that aren't his siblings?

From what I can tell, he isn't like this at school at all, in the neighborhood njjjjjjjjjjjjjjaz

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I've posted about ds14 before under this username. Things haven't gotten any better. I know he's a teenage but in my heart know that his issues are more than just typical teenage stuff. I have three other younger kids.

Lies constantly but is extremely difficult to catch. I've punished him just based on gut feeling many times and some times, he's later admitted it. He doesn't understand the idea of "benefit of the doubt". DD12usually receives the benefit of the doubt because she is generally honest and trustworthy. He rarely receives the benefit of the doubt because he is not. This really makes him angry.

Constantly annoys the other kids in our family-pokes them in the belly, pretends to hit them, always in their faces. Constantly. I never seem to see it, he's sneaky and does it when I'm not around, denies it EVERY time. This is a huge problem in our house as it affects three other people in a negative manner. They are always saying "Why don't you ever do anything about him?" He could be a lawyer due to the many ways he defends himself when he is accused of doing something that I didn't see happen. Lately, he's been walking past his 12 year old sister muttering "**nis". I have never heard him do it, but dh is unwilling to believe that he would do it and I am totally convinced that he does it. DD12 would not fabricate that out of the blue and it is upsetting to her.

Always has his nose in other people's business-if I am correcting one of the other kids, he always pipes in with "Yea, Mark!". He tries to tell us how to parent and discipline. Always wants to be the parent.

Focuses on things and just can't let them go. Was a wreck while camping because he was nervous about the horseflies, got highly agitated and mad about them. Too many other examples to mention.

This kid has been grounded more times and for long lengths of time than any other kid I know of. We've taken away anything that means anything to him-cell phone, video games, computer use...he always returns to this behavior.

On his defense, he has a very loving, side. He's very smart, high honor roll at school, teachers have nothing but great things to say about him. No issues whatsoever at school. Doesn't have many friends at all. People he texts, peole on facebook, but only one friend who he gets together with occasionally. He is a sophmore in high school. He's an excellent musician, practices, loves cross country and track. When he's not fixating on bugging someone or sticking his nose in someone else's business, he's a very interesting kid.

I personally think he needs to see a counselor something. Perhaps he has ODD. Our other kids get along great and the house is always fairly peaceful when he is not around. We have the normal arguments but I believe that he has deeper issues.

Problem is that dh had to go to family counseling when he was a teenager due to his dad's alchoholism and hated it and felt stigmatized so he will hear none of getting help for our son. I am at the point that I will put my foot down and just do it, I feel we are doing ds no favors by not addressing this.

If you've read this far, thank you. Any help you can offer, I would appreciate.

Putting your foot down is long overdue. Sorry your dh had a bad experience but he needs to get over it already.

Your dh is probably part of the problem with an attitude like that toward you son's disciplne. You guys don't agree and one thing a manipulative kid does is run with that.

That is the worst possible position to put yourselves in. Very counterproductive.

Plus no friends can equal a depressed kid in which anger is a common emotion from some people.

If you are depressed, anxiety, etc., it is very hard to "get it together".

Now the flipside is that he has to want to get better and your dh has to be on board with making your family "whole".

 

[worried64]

From what I can tell, he isn't like this at school at all, in the neighborhood he is fine with friends if his siblings aren't around. He doesn't take losing well, especially if playing with siblings. Sore loser but I do think he is fine with neighborhood friends (they are usually younger than him by at least a couple years). He's fairly shy at school but absolutely no issues. DH is one of his teachers and says he actually like ds better at school than at home. Other teachers tell dh all the time what a bright, insightful, nice boy ds is. Very likable at school. There are times when he gets along great with his brother, or his sisters. Then he always turns on them. I know with ODD, asbergers and other things, the child must display the behaviors in two areas of their lives, usually home and school. His is only at home. Other siblings are 12, 11 and 8. He will actually be 15 in two weeks.

He is also excessively argumentative with us, just will not let up, always has the last word. Maybe he'll be a lawyer??

 

[worried64]

OK, so we all agree that I will be putting my foot down. Where should I take him-a child psychologist? a teen counselor? a family counselor? I don't want ds to think he's "messed up" if I take him to a counselor. What reason do I give him-it's not like he's four and I can say come on, we're going.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

OK, so we all agree that I will be putting my foot down. Where should I take him-a child psychologist? a teen counselor? a family counselor? I don't want ds to think he's "messed up" if I take him to a counselor. What reason do I give him-it's not like he's four and I can say come on, we're going.

If you have a stigma about counseling then you are going to be as counterproductive as your DH. Need to drop that.

You cannot be afraid to make your family life better. If you are then that is part of the problem there too. You need to impart to your son that you are going to do everything you can to help him have a happier life at home.

I would suggest he see an individual counselor.

I would go at it from a postive angle. Improving his personal life at home, communicating with mom/dad, making friends, being happier, etc..
Have a heart to heart talk and ask him what he would like to work out in his life. A counselor is a neutral 3rd party that you get to express what is going on, work things out so that it is better at home.

Stuff like that.

 

[mjkacmom]

Part of it could be regular annoying teen behavior. Dd13 starting acting like this towards her siblings when she hit pubery - nothing nice to say, trying to parent them, finger head-flicks... Around her friends, she's as sweet as pie. I thought it was her personality, but now ds12 is starting up with the kids, too.

 

[clarabelle]

I think he needs to see someone.
Tell him loads of people see mental health professionals now. I have seen one -one of my children has seen one.
I know lots of people that have been on meds at some point or another. I don't think there is much stigma at all.
Besides -how would people know?

 

[wdwdancerwannabe]

I agree that this is probably beyond "teenage" issues, most teens like to push buttons but they don't do it constantly. It almost sounds more like social issues and I would be tempted to say Aspergers. I would talk to his pediatrician or school counselor and see if you can get a recommendation for testing. It is a good starting point. If this doesn't pan out, start counseling and too bad what your DH says-you do need to put your foot down and help your child. If DH doesn't like it, then DH can take over the discipline for him.

The social skills and possible Aspergers or RAD were the first two items that i thought of --- but hearing you describe the rest of your family, I would rule out RAD on that alone --

The thing to remember is - Aspergers isn't something that just suddenly evolves out of nowhere --- it's something that would have been there all along - however, hormones/puberty can make the behaviors and characteristics more prominent.

I would be curious to know about his friends - does he have them? Does he show empathy? How does he treat animals? What are his language skills like --- especially in the area of 'pragmatics' -- this is his ability to flow in a conversation, behaviors and social reciprocity in certain social situations. Often times, these behaviors are treated as defiance, disrespectful, self centered and rude - but in reality, they truly don't have an understanding for who/what is going on around them -- hence the lack of empathy.

I would strongly encourage you to get in contact with a psychologist -- you can try your doctor - but he/she will dismiss it as typical teen age beahavior and puberty....

Good Luck to you.

 

[worried64]

What is RAD?

I really think he is normal in every way when he is away from our family. My siblings are shocked by some of the things I tell them-"He seems so easy going" They have seen him in rare form though recently, when he thought no one was around. He has been difficult since he was four or five, progressively getting worse. He is an extremely difficult person to live with. Even yesterday, dd12 asked how many years until he goes to college? She said "Maybe then we will have a more peaceful household"

Linguistically, he's fine, except when competing for the floor at home. Never had an issue with animals, we have two dogs that he dotes on.

 

[wdwdancerwannabe]

Reactive Attachment Disorder....

I've read some of your additional posts -- there are a lot of items that you are hitting on to flag aspbergers (i.e., sore loser) The horsefly thing....does he have other sensory issues?

You are right -- true autism/aspbergers has to be documented/observed in more than one environment

Have you talked to his teachers? Specifically his gym teacher/coach -- this is the setting where the least bit of structure is present and where more of those behaviors may be seen.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

What is RAD?

I really think he is normal in every way when he is away from our family. My siblings are shocked by some of the things I tell them-"He seems so easy going" They have seen him in rare form though recently, when he thought no one was around. He has been difficult since he was four or five, progressively getting worse. He is an extremely difficult person to live with. Even yesterday, dd12 asked how many years until he goes to college? She said "Maybe then we will have a more peaceful household"

Linguistically, he's fine, except when competing for the floor at home. Never had an issue with animals, we have two dogs that he dotes on.

You say he has no friends outside of cyberland. That should tell you he is having trouble with interpersonal relationships outside of the home. Is it normal to have difficulties, yes. However not having any friendships at a time when kids are hooking up and bonding can be very tough on a teen.

You already know he has trouble within your family with relationships.

It really sounds like he needs some help with how to relate to people. You may find that he is carrying a lot of anxiety around. I don't know. I would certainly look into it.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Please google symptoms of childhood psychopaths and seek appropriate help.

 

[minkydog]

Please google symptoms of childhood psychopaths and seek appropriate help.

WTH?? I can't believe you said that! Yes I can. This is the DIS. Anonymity is King.

OP, you have my full support. My DS23 was very much like your son and it really took a toll on us all. I believe the behavior you're describing is NOT normal teenage hormones and drama. There is someting going on. When we were in the same situation we had DS to individual therapy, family therapy, and a child psychiatrist who finally, correctly diagnosed him with bipolar disorder. DS remained nominally compliant with his meds while in school--compliance was his access to driving, dating, and pretty much any other activity.

I don't believe your son(or mine) is a psychopath. Just boys who are hurting and depressed. Our road is not an easy one and there are a lot of parents out there who will tell you it's all your fault, if only you had been a better parent. You sound like you're doing your best, but these kids are an enigma. if your child has Aspergers or bipolar, or some other mental illness, the road is incredibly difficult and the things that other parents do don't work for our kids. Others who never had to deal with these things often have the smug position that *they* obviously know better. They know NOTHING.

My oldest son was 10 times harder than my other 2. And my youngest is profoundly mentally handicapped. That should tell you something right there.

 

[Holly]

First of all, ignore all of the online diagnosing by the "I'm not a child psychologist I just play on on the internet" crew in this thread. A psychopath? RAD? Oy.


Make an appointment with a professional. A good family therapist will help you find effective ways to deal with his behavior and if there is any diagnosis to be made he/she will help with that, too.

 

[wdwfan16]

I've posted about ds14 before under this username. Things haven't gotten any better. I know he's a teenage but in my heart know that his issues are more than just typical teenage stuff. I have three other younger kids.

Lies constantly but is extremely difficult to catch. I've punished him just based on gut feeling many times and some times, he's later admitted it. He doesn't understand the idea of "benefit of the doubt". DD12usually receives the benefit of the doubt because she is generally honest and trustworthy. He rarely receives the benefit of the doubt because he is not. This really makes him angry.

Constantly annoys the other kids in our family-pokes them in the belly, pretends to hit them, always in their faces. Constantly. I never seem to see it, he's sneaky and does it when I'm not around, denies it EVERY time. This is a huge problem in our house as it affects three other people in a negative manner. They are always saying "Why don't you ever do anything about him?" He could be a lawyer due to the many ways he defends himself when he is accused of doing something that I didn't see happen. Lately, he's been walking past his 12 year old sister muttering "**nis". I have never heard him do it, but dh is unwilling to believe that he would do it and I am totally convinced that he does it. DD12 would not fabricate that out of the blue and it is upsetting to her.

Always has his nose in other people's business-if I am correcting one of the other kids, he always pipes in with "Yea, Mark!". He tries to tell us how to parent and discipline. Always wants to be the parent.

Focuses on things and just can't let them go. Was a wreck while camping because he was nervous about the horseflies, got highly agitated and mad about them. Too many other examples to mention.

This kid has been grounded more times and for long lengths of time than any other kid I know of. We've taken away anything that means anything to him-cell phone, video games, computer use...he always returns to this behavior.

On his defense, he has a very loving, side. He's very smart, high honor roll at school, teachers have nothing but great things to say about him. No issues whatsoever at school. Doesn't have many friends at all. People he texts, peole on facebook, but only one friend who he gets together with occasionally. He is a sophmore in high school. He's an excellent musician, practices, loves cross country and track. When he's not fixating on bugging someone or sticking his nose in someone else's business, he's a very interesting kid.

I personally think he needs to see a counselor something. Perhaps he has ODD. Our other kids get along great and the house is always fairly peaceful when he is not around. We have the normal arguments but I believe that he has deeper issues.

Problem is that dh had to go to family counseling when he was a teenager due to his dad's alchoholism and hated it and felt stigmatized so he will hear none of getting help for our son. I am at the point that I will put my foot down and just do it, I feel we are doing ds no favors by not addressing this.

If you've read this far, thank you. Any help you can offer, I would appreciate.

I certainly seems this is far more than "teenage boy" stuff. I agree you need to get him into counseling. Good luck.

 

[tar heel]

Please google symptoms of childhood psychopaths and seek appropriate help.

That was certainly uncalled for -- are you unfeeling AND an idiot, or do you just play that role on the internet?

OP -- I would definitely find a counselor of some kind, but I don't know where to tell you to go. My son, who grew up to not be a pschopath, worked for a while with a children's psycholgist and later with a licensed clinical social worker who worked on adolescents with social issues. Your pediatrician might give you some ideas. You will want someone in your insurance plan, so why not just call the mental health line and see what advice they can offer.

 

[JessicaR]

WTH?? I can't believe you said that! Yes I can. This is the DIS. Anonymity is King.

OP, you have my full support..

I can't believe it either. You have my full support too.