Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[Yellowjj]

Disney is on a swamp so getting rid of them entirely has to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard of.

Agreed. The whole of Florida is basically a swamp. To try and exterminate animals who were there before humans were is just completely over the top.

I feel for this family, but I think visitors to Florida should be made to look at a handbook with the first rule in it being.
*This is a alligator habitat. Stay away from any fresh bodies of water at night. In the day is permissible as long as you check your surroundings first.*

 

[XXRAINMANX]

You know, I'm thinking, in addition to the gators, the sand on those beaches can get mighty hot on a warm day. We wouldn't want anyone to burn their feet, so we should probably put a sign up....or on second thought just close the beaches entirely, to be safe.

Probably want to pull all coffee makers out of the room too, since hot coffee can lead to scalding burns, as scientists have just informed me.

Better shut off all hot water sources to the rooms too, just to be safe.

While we're at it, shut off all water so no one drowns in the tub. Can't be too careful.

THIS IS CLEARLY NOT DOING ENOUGH,

We need to warn about lightening because storms are in Florida. Let's warn about water in general, because slipping could be an issue and "no running" signs just don't cut it; let's eliminate all water supplies PERIOD. Now that I think of it most accidents are a result of "fun" activities, let's eliminate all fun, but since Disney is meant to be fun I know the solution LET'S CLOSE EVERY DISNEY, and return it to it's natural habitat. It's the only true way of dealing with this safety issue. Then again, if we do that the gator population might explode, that's probably bad so since we're closing Disney and making short sighted knee jerk reactions to tragedy lets shut down all of Florida while we're at it and everyone will now live in organic biodegradable bubbles that have no pollution associated with them what so ever to ensure we don't do anything to the environment and can't possibly get hurt in any situation ever.

 

[Yellowjj]

EXACTLY, WHERE WERE THE WARNINGS. IT MAY NOT HAVE COMMON KNOWLEDGE TO THEM! ITS NOT TO MANY PEOPLE! PEOPLE ARE FROM ALL KINDS OF WALKS OF LIFE. GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE AND PUT BY YOURSELF IN ANOTHER PERSONS SHOES. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME BRAIN, UPBRINGING, AND KNOWLEDGE. YOU DONT HAVE AN ARGUMENT.

IS IT KNOWLEDGE TO YES BUT THATS BECAUSE I GREW UP VACATIONING IN FLORIDA AND HAD RELATIVES THERE. ANYONE THAT IS CALLING ANYONE STUPID OR SAYING THEY CANT BELIEVE THE PARENTS NEEDS TO NOT PASS JUDGEMENT SO QUICK!

A) Caps is unnecessary and makes your debate weak.

B) Any person going to Florida should not need a warning sign about gators. If you need a sign, you have no business in Florida. That's like me going into the Himalayas and screaming/shouting because I see no signs warning about Avalanches. It's the duty of the person going to somewhere they do not live to research. Find out if there are dangers you should be aware of.

 

[Corsetopia]

STOP YELLING, I don't live in a bubble, your right people live are from different walks of life, and a sign won't fix that if someone can't read English, doesn't know what a "no swimming" symbol means, and has no idea what an alligator looks like or does; so as I've stated numerous times at this point a sign is only as good as the person interpreting and understanding it. Next, at some point people will have to decide what is common knowledge and what isn't. I personally believe that gators in lakes are common knowledge especially in Florida. Furthermore, being in a semi-wildlife environment means to be that wildlife could be present and some of those may be dangerous. Additionally, I take "no swimming" symbols to means stay out of the water entirely feet and all, and depending on what report you go by the child could have been between ankle deep (unknown if child's or adult ankle) to 1-2 feet deep in the water. That child was in the water and shouldn't have been. The definition of swimming will need to be determined as well, and I've already stated my opinion on the matter. Next, since you seem full of adding things I haven't said, I haven't called anyone stupid, and I didn't say anything about not believing a parent. I'm stating this is a tragic accident and blame is with no one, and unless we want to live in a world that is plastered with warnings about every tiny little potential threat then we need to use our brains and realize nothing is ever 100% safe and risk exists in everything we do.

Gators in man made lakes in a theme park aren't common knowledge to tourists visiting Disney. Read the thread and you'll see that.

It doesn't matter if the child was in ankle deep water or not. The alligators, as I've read, are attracted to the splashing. What if they were walking on the shoreline, and the child reached down and splashed the water a bit and alerted one?

The dispute over the swimming vs. wading sign isn't as important as an actual warning signs for alligators - which might have prevented even any walking near the water at all.

A sign with a reptile looking thing with sharp teeth under the water surely gives tourists a chance to sense 'danger' if they don't "know what an alligator looks like or does".

This particular area was made to look like a white sand beach - not swampy whatsoever. It's not a huge jump to assume a lot of tourists didn't think alligators were in this particular area.

 

[LSLS]

I don't disagree I just think Disney isn't going to go that far.

Sadly, I agree. My guess is signs (maybe not even gator signs, just no wading or swimming) along with signs that close beach areas at dusk.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I actually think we've overlooked another very important issue regarding Disney's liability, and that's the fact that so many people are now reporting that guests staying in the Poly bungalows have been feeding the alligators and despite complaints about it to management, nothing has been done to stop the practice, including something as simple as putting notices in the bungalows that feeding gators violated Florida law.

Feeding gators violates Florida law because it increases aggression/decreases fear of humans.
Guests are known to feed guests from the Poly bungalows.
Disney looks the other way, not reprimanding guests who are literally spending thousands of dollars a night to stay in the bungalows.
This attack happened just over a year after the Poly bungalows opened. After 40+ years of no incidents. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. But it's not going to be that hard to argue correlation, especially with CMs/former CMs coming forward saying that management did nothing despite complaints.

 

[rteetz]

I actually think we've overlooked another very important issue regarding Disney's liability, and that's the fact that so many people are now reporting that guests staying in the Poly bungalows have been feeding the alligators and despite complaints about it to management, nothing has been done to stop the practice, including something as simple as putting notices in the bungalows that feeding gators violated Florida law.

Feeding gators violates Florida law because it increases aggression/decreases fear of humans.
Guests are known to feed guests from the Poly bungalows.
Disney looks the other way, not reprimanding guests who are literally spending thousands of dollars a night to stay in the bungalows.
This attack happened just over a year after the Poly bungalows opened. After 40+ years of no incidents. Is it a coincidence? Maybe. But it's not going to be that hard to argue correlation, especially with CMs/former CMs coming forward saying that management did nothing despite complaints.

It's not just the bungalows but throughout Disney people feed gators. I would guess people don't know it's illegal especially those coming into WDW from outside the US.

 

[XXRAINMANX]

I have been refraining from commenting on this incident because it is one of the most horrifying things I can imagine. My utmost sympathy goes to the family. While I am trying to not think too much about this incident, one thought that keeps popping in my head is; why can't Disney eliminate alligators from their property? The unfortunate reality to that question is that they could eliminate alligators if they wanted to and / or where allowed to. The technology and methods are available to control wildlife populations in designated environments. The real issue is that Disney would likely be painted as an evil corporate giant bent on destroying the planet by animal rights activist and environmental wackos. Disney's tries to remove aggressive gators and other problematic wildlife but their efforts are hampered by political correctness. Too many people are trying to convince everyone that this was just a freak accident that couldn't be avoided. Unfortunately, that is simply not true. Yes, this kind of incident is extremely rare, but as others also point out you still have to be aware of your surroundings. That means the potential for something like this happening has always been there. Disney knew this as well. It's not that they haven't done anything to avoid it, they do try there best; they just don't want to or aren't allowed to eliminate the problem. There is no place for alligators at WDW, (except perhaps on Kilimanjaro Safari). Lets hope some good comes out of this incident and Disney does what it needs to do to eliminate alligators from their property so nothing like this happens again.

You honestly think you can eliminate gators from 43 square miles and particularly reclaimed swampland and keep gators out permanently, without hurting surrounding environments?

 

[Aurora0427]

Children should not be close to the water. Period. Movie night? No. Beach toys at shops? No. Parents relaxing in a hammock with kids on the beach? No.

Oh gimme a break. Seriously. The only part of your statement I agree with is keeping your kids away from the waters edge. Which is what the University of Florida recommends in its guidelines for coexisting with gators.

 

[angelmav]

Agreed. The whole of Florida is basically a swamp. To try and exterminate animals who were there before humans were is just completely over the top.

I feel for this family, but I think visitors to Florida should be made to look at a handbook with the first rule in it being.
*This is a alligator habitat. Stay away from any fresh bodies of water at night. In the day is permissible as long as you check your surroundings first.*

Hey look, we obviously have a member of the Florida tourism board!

 

[dlavender]

THIS IS CLEARLY NOT DOING ENOUGH,

We need to warn about lightening because storms are in Florida. Let's warn about water in general, because slipping could be an issue and "no running" signs just don't cut it; let's eliminate all water supplies PERIOD. Now that I think of it most accidents are a result of "fun" activities, let's eliminate all fun, but since Disney is meant to be fun I know the solution LET'S CLOSE EVERY DISNEY, and return it to it's natural habitat. It's the only true way of dealing with this safety issue. Then again, if we do that the gator population might explode, that's probably bad so since we're closing Disney and making short sighted knee jerk reactions to tragedy lets shut down all of Florida while we're at it and everyone will now live in organic biodegradable bubbles that have no pollution associated with them what so ever to ensure we don't do anything to the environment and can't possibly get hurt in any situation ever.

Haven't we shot this thought down already?

Yes, asking Disney to make sure people are aware of alligators in their lagoon is totally the same thing as closing down the whole state. Spot on. You completely understand the arguments.

Yes, warning people of water which they use daily is totally the same thing as warning tourists of your local ecosystem and the dangers that you have personal intimate knowledge of. Again, I'm amazed at how spot on you are.

Yes, eliminating all fun is the exact same thing as asking for better signage.

Asking Disney to say stay out of the water instead of no swimming is the same thing as wanting to live in a bubble.

Great summary of the arguments. Keep dazzling us.

 

[Aurora0427]

It's not just the bungalows but throughout Disney people feed gators. I would guess people don't know it's illegal especially those coming into WDW from outside the US.

People really are stuck on stupid, aren't they? Feeding alligators. Unbelievable.

 

[poison ivy]

To be fair, the statistics were in their favor. Obviously, the odds go against as time goes on, BUT the situation has to be perfect.

I'm not so sure about this. the gators were lurking near these populated beach areas at night for a reason. My guess is food. More and more the resorts were experiencing an increase in the guest activities centered around the nightly fireworks. the GF would routinely host sandcastle building; marshmallow roasts and movie night on the beach - which happens to be right near the pool bar with food.

Add to this, the surge in guests bringing food and having a picnic on the Poly beaches to watch the fireworks. And who knows if someone ever fed one they happened to see.

All of this increases the statistical probability of an encounter. As I've said before, this was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Are you kidding me? We're talking about a sign that could have saved a small child's life. That's not worth it to you?

The parents not letting their kid play on his own in a lake at 9:30 at night could have also saved the child's life. They took on the risk on their own to let their child "wade" in the water that said "no swimming" and wasn't even within arms reach of his child then I do not feel that Disney owed them an explanation of their no one in the water policy. They could have perhaps made it more clear that you shouldn't be in the water, but they don't owe an explanation as to why you are not allowed in the lake.

Further, considering the Dad serves on the chamber of commerce, which is very anti safety regulation, then I do feel like someone who lobbies on behalf of personal responsibility should have taken personal responsibility.

 

[Yellowjj]

Hey look, we obviously have a member of the Florida tourism board!

What are your credentials again?

 

[Yellowjj]

People really are stuck on stupid, aren't they? Feeding alligators. Unbelievable.

Reminds me of the movie Lake Placid.

 

[romitaz]

Haven't we shot this thought down already?

Yes, asking Disney to make sure people are aware of alligators in their lagoon is totally the same thing as closing down the whole state. Spot on. You completely understand the arguments.

Yes, warning people of water which they use daily is totally the same thing as warning tourists of your local ecosystem and the dangers that you have personal intimate knowledge of. Again, I'm amazed at how spot on you are.

Yes, eliminating all fun is the exact same thing as asking for better signage.

Asking Disney to say stay out of the water instead of no swimming is the same thing as wanting to live in a bubble.

Great summary of the arguments. Keep dazzling us.

I'm pretty sure they were using said examples to show that many of the arguments posited were just as inane as these.

 

[Phicinfan]

I have to disagree with most here. I don't think Disney can get away with just new signage. No matter how clear. They will have to better identify the issue with signage, with dangerous wildlife and stay out of the water and such.

But simply because this one incident happened, they will stop all activities on these beaches. They have to. You simply can't afford to ever have this happen again. So, my guess is the outside movies will get moved to the pools, instead of the beaches. Some kind of fencing will be put up to block access, and verbage stated if you breach that area, you will be evicted. Disney will be forced to go further than most want, simply because they are Disney and will be at huge risk.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

You're right, Disney doesn't care for your welfare at all.

There's a reason for that warning on those gel packets. Some dumb person ate one, and sued.

I have seen a shirt with a "remove before ironing" tag.

Also heard of a stroller that said "remove child before folding".

Can't make it up.

MG

 

[dlavender]

I'm pretty sure they were using said examples to show that many of the arguments posited were just as inane as these.

That's what they were reaching for, for sure.

My post showed that the examples were in no way reflective of the arguments.

I'm sure we will go back to talking about meteors shortly......