Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[mshanson3121]

I

Incorrect to you but not to all. Have you lost a child in this manner..... I really do not think anyone can truly say what they would do or want they would want done unless they are in that situation. Sorry quoted the wrong person. I was sneering the same person as you

NP. You can always edit your quote I think and delete mine and put the correct one in, but I may be wrong.

 

[Capang]

This is heartbreaking. My condolences to the parents.

I always stayed far away from the water, and kept my family away from it, but it was because of the brain eating amoebas (Naegleria fowleri). That was the first reason they banned folks from getting in those waters. I'll be adding gators to the list.

I kept my family away from the water for the same reason. However, that incident happened long before they closed the beaches or River Country. Swimming in the lake and the old water park continued long after that bacteria killed someone.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's not an overestimation to extend a restriction on a sign. "No swimming" doesn't cut it. I don't wade in the water, but that family at the very least should have been better warned.

I think there policy can should and will change.

But I never count on humans doing things that aren't obvious...because they won't.

Do you want an alligator video on magical express? How about a speech at the 30 second online checkin process? Announcements over the speakers at pools?

Now...is the environment/tactics that Disney uses conducive to that?

Nope...you have your answer.

The legal team will handle this one...to limit liability moving forward without impacting revenue. That's just how it be...

 

[warrenz1963]

The problem is people forget on,vacation they let their guard down. I will never be convinced it is the fault of the parents in this case. Disney can control the scent in the air. They should be able to forsee alligator natural instinct prevailing.


But they fall in the water? Have you ridden a jet ski? I bet many people that rent them have not before.

Of course Disney can control scent in a theme park because for the most part they have control over that. Theme parks are predominantly artificial environments, not a natural environment.
WDW is reclaimed swamp land with a lot of water. Alligators live in that water, they can't be controlled. They are wild animals, and they can't be 100% controlled, it's just not possible. Five thousand warning signs probably wouldn't stop everyone from going near the water. Signs are like the security at theme prk gates: they are deterrents, they are not absolute guarantees to safety.

Of course they know alligators are there, and believe me they do a lot in corporation with state and local authorities to keep tabs on the wildlife population, and handle them as they become aware of individual animals.

This is not Disneys fault, this is not the family's fault. This was a horrible accident.

 

[robinb]

That's a textbook answer...but it is incorrect.

I would want them to keep
Searching until the efforts are exhausted...I wouldn't want a "clean sweep" of the animals in the area.

Perhaps I would want them to find the animal to study it...maybe implement radio tracking as part of their control program...but not for the purposes of the funeral home.

It's awful and the psychological scars aren't going away for those people. What really does it matter at this point.

What the heck? There is no way that any animal that kills a human to eat them should be allowed to remain alive and possibly kill again. That gator now knows that food, in the form of toddlers, conveniently hangs out near the water's edge. So much easier to catch than its regular prey! That gator needs to be found and killed.

 

[mshanson3121]

I think there policy can should and will change.

But I never count on humans doing things that aren't obvious...because they won't.

Do you want an alligator video on magical express? How about a speech at the 30 second online checkin process? Announcements over the speakers at pools?

Now...is the environment/tactics that Disney uses conducive to that?

Nope...you have your answer.

The legal team will handle this one...to limit liability moving forward without impacting revenue. That's just how it be...

They easily can do more than they are - they SHOULD be doing more than they are. If they had, this tragedy may have been avoided. Proper signage along all water fronts (in parks and resorts), brochures in the resort rooms etc... But Disney doesn't want to take public measures like that because they don't want anyone to know they have an alligator "problem"... it's bad PR. Too cynical? At the very least, it's just not "pretty and magical". Though, it's certainly been blown wide open now.

 

[warrenz1963]

This is such a tragic and awful story. My heart and thoughts go out to the family who lost their child.

I do have to say I am surprised by the number of posts from people who did not seem to think this was a risk. I mean, it's Florida. I'm from Iowa (born and raised) and I know that alligators are a risk. I remember going in the water back in the day, prior to the "no swimming" signs and my mom screaming at me to get out of the water because there might be an alligator.

I've worked in national parks. Even in places that most people know are wilderness environments, many visitors come in without any prior knowledge of the wild animals that live there, let alone how to safely traverse the landscape. And as we've seen in recent news, visitors WITH knowledge blatantly disregard educational and warning signage for a range of personal reasons.
You'd think folks would educate themselves about all potential risks to their personal safety, but they don't. Heck, this family may have known gators are in the waters, but it's easy to think that bad things will never happen to us.

Ultimately, nobody is really at fault here; this is a tragic accident.

 

[ChipnDale79]

This is not Disneys fault, this is not the family's fault. This was a horrible accident.

This is what people need to realize. We're way too quick to point fingers and assign blame to someone when things happen. Sometimes accidents are just accidents.

my heart is breaking for this family.

 

[poison ivy]

We'll never really know whether a sign stating something along the lines of: "warning restricted wildlife area: no swimming; wading or standing in the water." would have saved a life. We don't need 5000 warning signs or videos of gators.

these guys are in the business of guest safety. I hate that it takes a tragedy to get something as simple as basic signage improved. They KNEW guests were wading in the water!

 

[Delgado]

In this case...I think that's unfair.

Maybe a movie next to the lagoon is a bad idea...but nothing lazy or inappropriate on Disneys part.

Stuff happens - as Forest Gump would say. I don't think this will ever happen again because they'll respond.

No reasonable expectation that they should have considered a 2 year old swimming in a non-swimming area in the darkness with a large gator several feet away. This hasn't happened before.

 

[ChipnDale79]

They easily can do more than they are - they SHOULD be doing more than they are. If they had, this tragedy may have been avoided. Proper signage along all water fronts (in parks and resorts), brochures in the resort rooms etc... But Disney doesn't want to take public measures like that because they don't want anyone to know they have an alligator "problem"... it's bad PR. Too cynical? At the very least, it's just not "pretty and magical". Though, it's certainly been blown wide open now.

Let's think about this for a second. Disney has millions of guests per year, its fair to say that in the time frame that the seven seas lagoon has been open, that hundreds of millions of guests have crossed, walked near, or have been in walking distance of that lagoon over the past 40 years? I think that's fair.

You're not going to be able to stop every bad thing from happening. This was an accident, plain and simple.

In an area that has so many gators and so many guests, the fact that this hasn't happened before in the history of WDW says they are doing a pretty good job.

CNN just interviewed Jeff Corwin, CNN was surprised a gator was in the lagoon, Corwin wasn't. He actually said it would be impossible to keep gators out of this lagoon.

 

[Hoodie]

I've worked in national parks. Even in places that most people know are wilderness environments, many visitors come in without any prior knowledge of the wild animals that live there, let alone how to safely traverse the landscape. And as we've seen in recent news, visitors WITH knowledge blatantly disregard educational and warning signage for a range of personal reasons.
You'd think folks would educate themselves about all potential risks to their personal safety, but they don't. Heck, this family may have known gators are in the waters, but it's easy to think that bad things will never happen to us.

Ultimately, nobody is really at fault here; this is a tragic accident.

Exactly. That's why we had the baby bison in a minivan and that poor man who died in the sulfur springs. You are on vacation. Nothing bad can happen. Until it does. My heart aches for these parents.

 

[warrenz1963]

IMO, as much as I love Disney, yes, they could have done more: proper signage warning about gators. Signs warning to stay out of the water completely. Information on how to take proper precautions against alligators (such as "Alligator attacks are most like to occur at water's edge at night", "Please don't feed the alligators"). Disney is fully aware that gators are on their property. And they've done a great job of quietly trying to manage them. Because, after all, the more obvious approach isn't as pretty, and might even be a bit scary, and who wants that?

When we vacationed in NH, we stayed at a great resort - and there were pamphlets in can't-miss 'em area in every room, about bear safety. Not to mention signs on the property. Disney certainly could do the same.

Having worked in a few national parks I can tell you that hundreds, thousands of signs and educational materials in all be right places will not work 100% of the time because some people just don't read them. The language and tone of park educational materials is typically very clear about the dangers involved in visiting wild places, and people still get hurt because they didn't read them or they did but they think it won't happen to them, or they did and they fully understand but accidents still happen.

There are signs all over Disney property to not go in the water. Maybe fences are a better option? Someone would probably climb over anyway...

Disney probably will focus some effort on alligator awareness. And even if they tried to catch and kill all the alligators they would not be 100% successful. And accidents will still happen. What happened is horrible and tragic and it was an accident.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What the heck? There is no way that any animal that kills a human to eat them should be allowed to remain alive and possibly kill again. That gator now knows that food, in the form of toddlers, conveniently hangs out near the water's edge. So much easier to catch than its regular prey! That gator needs to be found and killed.

Wait a minute...you do realize that that alligator did nothing wrong, correct?

Is this a foreign concept? Nobody pays attention in Bio class...

If they find an alligator that was likely to have done this...then I am 100% ok with euthanization and investigation...

What I don't want is a sweep across property to bag as many as they can. That is not right.

This isn't like the premeditated nut at the nightclub. If I get bit snorkeling or with a scuba on....do I blame the fish?

Do i blame the wave if I get knocked off my paddle board or kayak?

Life has dangers...as long as they act appropriately and responsively...then the best thing is to put this to rest and try to move on.

I get the instinctive response...no question. But the mind should prevail.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I would 100% want a clean sweep. A deadly animal like that has no place in WDW. I fully understand they can't control it 100%, but in a case like this - yes, kill them all. It'll at least reduce the risk a bit for another family.

I have to say...knowing you're a Canadian...I'm shocked at you're response.

You know the power of nature...and no property deed given to Walter Elias Disney could hold more power than nature over reality. It's just what it is.

If that makes people think a little more on vacation (a frequent refrain of mine on less serious topics)...then we have to grow up, deal with it, and do it.

 

[Delgado]

In this case...I think that's unfair.

Maybe a movie next to the lagoon is a bad idea...but nothing lazy or inappropriate on Disneys part.

Stuff happens - as Forest Gump would say. I don't think this will ever happen again because they'll respond.

No reasonable expectation that they should have considered a 2 year old swimming in a non-swimming area in the darkness with a large gator several feet away. This hasn't happened before.

No reasonable expectation of it happening...are you kidding? A movie by a lagoon was a horrid idea. We are talking about disney, the same company that spend money to manipulate customers with smells. I am in know way an anti disney person, we were just there from end of May to beginning of June. This is a sophisticated company.

The child want swimming, the poor baby was in at most ankle deep water. Take your kids to the beach area at any of those resorts and keep them away from the water. Completely away. Most gator attacks happen on the shoreline. You don't even need to be in the water. So yes, signage is a weak excuse. Blaming it on the parents is a weak excuse. and don't tell me don't take your kids to the beach then because that's not an answer. Disney is designed for children. FOR CHILDREN. Disney has a responsibility of keeping those children safe.

I understand stuff happens, I have a quadriplegic 27 year old brother and my other brother was hit by a truck last December. I get it. Stuff happens is not reasoning for a family that shelled out probably more than 5 grand to be at the most magical place on earth. They had a reasonable expectation that they'd make it back home as a family.

 

[Delgado]

Wait a minute...you do realize that that alligator did nothing wrong, correct?

Is this a foreign concept? Nobody pays attention in Bio class...

If they find an alligator that was likely to have done this...then I am 100% ok with euthanization and investigation...

What I don't want is a sweep across property to bag as many as they can. That is not right.

This isn't like the premeditated nut at the nightclub. If I get bit snorkeling or with a scuba on....do I blame the fish?

Do i blame the wave if I get knocked off my paddle board or kayak?

Life has dangers...as long as they act appropriately and responsively...then the best thing is to put this to rest and try to move on.

I get the instinctive response...no question. But the mind should prevail.

I'm shocked. If this was your child our a loved ones child I bet you would feel differently.

 

[mshanson3121]

Having worked in a few national parks I can tell you that hundreds, thousands of signs and educational materials in all be right places will not work 100% of the time because some people just don't read them. The language and tone of park educational materials is typically very clear about the dangers involved in visiting wild places, and people still get hurt because they didn't read them or they did but they think it won't happen to them, or they did and they fully understand but accidents still happen.

There are signs all over Disney property to not go in the water. Maybe fences are a better option? Someone would probably climb over anyway...

Disney probably will focus some effort on alligator awareness. And even if they tried to catch and kill all the alligators they would not be 100% successful. And accidents will still happen. What happened is horrible and tragic and it was an accident.

There are signs to not go swimming. There's a difference. And I agree, it won't stop everyone. But it would the majority. And, I also agree it was an accident - however, it was an accident that may have been able to be prevented, and we all know that legally, if they decide to sue, Disney is going to be liable, because they didn't have proper precautions in place.

As far as one of the other comments that Disney has been doing a great job since this is the first incident. Yes and no. A) You have to look at increasing population. The gator population was much lower in the past years of the park and the risk was much lower. The population has really exploded over the last decade. B) Disney's population has also been exploding. More people = more risk. Also, more people = more feeding = more alligators. C) The fact that anything hasn't happened previously, aside from the fact that there was reduced risk, is largely just luck. They've been capturing/trapping them yes, which is very important, and I think they've done a good job, but as others have mentioned - they'll never capture them all, as evidenced by the fact that people see them in the park and resorts. And because of that, they need to be doing public education/awareness - which they haven't been.

 

[LSLS]

Wait a minute...you do realize that that alligator did nothing wrong, correct?

Is this a foreign concept? Nobody pays attention in Bio class...

If they find an alligator that was likely to have done this...then I am 100% ok with euthanization and investigation...

What I don't want is a sweep across property to bag as many as they can. That is not right.

This isn't like the premeditated nut at the nightclub. If I get bit snorkeling or with a scuba on....do I blame the fish?

Do i blame the wave if I get knocked off my paddle board or kayak?

Life has dangers...as long as they act appropriately and responsively...then the best thing is to put this to rest and try to move on.

I get the instinctive response...no question. But the mind should prevail.

The gator that did it needs to be destroyed. And the chances of finding that one first try is slim to none (which would mean killing more than one while searching). Can't have it roaming with the taste of human (unless a body is found and the gator did not consume it. Good God, I'm making myself sick just typing that. Can't separate my emotion at this point). As for a clean sweep, I'm not really for that either. You will never get to 0 gators, so to think that keep people safe from here on would be completely inaccurate. You could relocate as many as you can catch along with other measures, but it is going to be a constant battle as they will continue coming in. I'm not thinking fully at this point so I can't say what measures should be implemented, but I think you need to come up with a way to keep people and gators separated (and that would involve barriers to humans entering gator habitat/gators entering human areas). In the end, I'm with you that you don't demonize the whole group for the single action.

 

[mshanson3121]

I have to say...knowing you're a Canadian...I'm shocked at you're response.

You know the power of nature...and no property deed given to Walter Elias Disney could hold more power than nature over reality. It's just what it is.

If that makes people think a little more on vacation (a frequent refrain of mine on less serious topics)...then we have to grow up, deal with it, and do it.

Exactly. Because I'm Canadian, and I'm fully aware of the power of dangerous wildlife, I quite frankly, could give a rat's butt about them. Any dangerous animal found within WDW property poses a threat to it's guests and needs to be either relocated or killed. It's how we deal with things up here in Canada. You think that when polar bears come wandering down Main Street, we just let it be?