FYI: More Cuts Coming

[anniemae]

I have heard in the past that Disney is more interested in the "one time, trip of a lifetime" guest instead of repeat customers. I never understood that. I would think repeat guests would be their bread and butter. A sure source of income. "Keep them happy, they will come back" type of attitude.

I agree with the pp that the attitude will not change unless attendance drops. It never will. In this thread, and many others, the general attitude is:

"That stinks, I hate what is happening, but I will still go back" or

"That stinks, I am so upset, maybe I will only go 4 times this year instead of 5"

"That stinks I will have to reevaluate after my 2 week trip this May and my Disney cruise in August."


Just look at how crowded it is all the time, the lines, the wait times, the fp unavailability. People go back again and again and again no matter what is cut, or closed, or if quality drops. People get hooked and Disney realizes they can drop standards, make cuts, increase prices etc. and people will still come back. Again and again.

 

[hakepb]

This is very disappointing. At POFQ there is a CM who is an older short man and he greets people at the door. He wears these crazy ridiculous Mardi Gras hats! I'm going to miss seeing him around.

I thought it was mentioned that the cut greeters were the CM's holding iPads that stood (mostly) outside.
If / when My Magic+ works, guests arrive at their resort with a text telling them their room number and/or their next instructions, and the iPad CM starts to seem redundant.

 

[AdamEfimoff]

https://pathwaysunitedstates.wordpress.com/route_orlando/ this my tour plans

 

[rteetz]

I argue that a large part of the success of the Disney parks is because of loyal customers constantly coming back. If it weren't for loyal customers the parks would be nowhere near as popular as they are. For now a lot of them still do come back but that could change, especially if they feel they don't matter and the company no longer cares about them, through constant cutting of attractions/entertainment or price increases they feel are too high or not worth it. I would argue that probably a lot are close to that point already. I don't think it's possible to replace all the loyal customers with that amount of multiplication, and if the new people who do come don't come back or don't come back often then where are you in a few years time?

I don't disagree with you but that's not what Disney thinks.

 

[rteetz]

I have heard in the past that Disney is more interested in the "one time, trip of a lifetime" guest instead of repeat customers. I never understood that. I would think repeat guests would be their bread and butter. A sure source of income. "Keep them happy, they will come back" type of attitude.

I agree with the pp that the attitude will not change unless attendance drops. It never will. In this thread, and many others, the general attitude is:

"That stinks, I hate what is happening, but I will still go back" or

"That stinks, I am so upset, maybe I will only go 4 times this year instead of 5"

"That stinks I will have to reevaluate after my 2 week trip this May and my Disney cruise in August."


Just look at how crowded it is all the time, the lines, the wait times, the fp unavailability. People go back again and again and again no matter what is cut, or closed, or if quality drops. People get hooked and Disney realizes they can drop standards, make cuts, increase prices etc. and people will still come back. Again and again.

They like that first time once in a lifetime visitor because they spend more. They buy a lot in gift shops, they buy the dining plan, they buy the Polynesian room. Disney is looking for as much profit as they can.

 

[rteetz]

I thought it was mentioned that the cut greeters were the CM's holding iPads that stood (mostly) outside.
If / when My Magic+ works, guests arrive at their resort with a text telling them their room number and/or their next instructions, and the iPad CM starts to seem redundant.

That is true but not all guests know about that text telling them which means they need someone for those guests.

 

[rteetz]

This is very disappointing. At POFQ there is a CM who is an older short man and he greets people at the door. He wears these crazy ridiculous Mardi Gras hats! I'm going to miss seeing him around.

He should still be there.

 

[shanethesaint88]

They like that first time once in a lifetime visitor because they spend more. They buy a lot in gift shops, they buy the dining plan, they buy the Polynesian room. Disney is looking for as much profit as they can.

I was just typing the same thing. The first time guests will buy more of the souvenirs because they don't have them. They will spend more in other areas that regulars will not because they have already done it. And I'm not sure that it is just the one time guest that Disney focuses on. There cant be that many of those. It's the guest that comes only once ever 3-10 years. They spend more, it's just logic. If you have an annual and going to the park 3-4 times a year then you aren't buying the same 2016 t-shirt you already bought. You aren't buying the dining plan most likely because you know how to maximize your money concerning dining without the DP. An most of all...your already coming back 4 times a year. Why does a company have to appease you. Until those guests stop that type of business mindset will never change

 

[soniam]

This must be why I'm not a highly paid CEO. I don't understand making cuts at a park that's reporting record attendance right before one of its busiest times of the year.

Of course I also don't understand catering to the new or once in a lifetime guest over trying to keep guests coming back. No other business I know operates like this. I just don't think there is a never ending supply of people with the means or desire to go to WDW, especially with the exchange rate hurting international visitors.

I just see this all as extremely short sighted.

I agree that it is very short sighted. However, I think the stock market, analysts, and being a public company drives them to do what's best to get the best stock price at the next earnings call, not for the long haul A lot of big businesses operate this way, we just don't realize it. That's why quality and customer service are not synonymous with a lot of the businesses we patron. Businesses do like to pretend that they care about these things. I am not happy about these cuts at all. I have a trip the week before Easter week. It's going to be crowded, and they will have cut services. I thought hours and shows would increase as we got closer, like they did last year, but not I am not holding my breath. We will still have a good time, but it won't make for the easiest trip.

 

[toddinboston]

it looks like everyone at Disney is tightening their belts... Bob iger took a 3% pay cut last year, his salary, bonus and stock options only came to $44.9M...times is tough...

 

[shanethesaint88]

it looks like everyone at Disney is tightening their belts... Bob iger took a 3% pay cut last year, his salary, bonus and stock options only came to $44.9M...times is tough...

Must be hard for him...damn. I feel for his family. How will they be able to....Oh wait

 

[DisDad4Life]

What confuses me about all this is that Disney World is not the only game in town anymore. Universal Studios has been gaining popularity more and more every year with all the upgrades and additions they've been doing. The thing that has separated Disney from all other competitors over the years is their perceived customer service in making their destinations The Happiest Place on Earth. Reading through other threads about the decline in CM "Magic" and now this, the perceived magic appears to be heading in the wrong direction that potentially could drive loyal and would-be-first-time Disney park goers to other vacation destinations. The US brass have to be smiling from ear to ear (pun intended).

 

[soniam]

Another reason they may be cutting in the US more than it seems they are cutting in other places is because it's easier to get rid of employees in the US. In Europe, some parts of Asia, and South America, workers are often on contract. There isn't always the notion of a part-time or hourly employee. These contracts and local laws make it difficult to impossible to just get rid of someone without notifying the government and the employee with a ton of advance notice, if you can even get rid of them before their contract ends. The company may even have to pay out part of all of the contract to end it early, which doesn't save any money. I have seen this a lot in my industry too. They won't layoff in other countries as much, because it's just really difficult to do. Whereas, in the US, especially in some states, it's very easy to get rid of non-contract and non-union workers.

 

[soniam]

What confuses me about all this is that Disney World is not the only game in town anymore. Universal Studios has been gaining popularity more and more every year with all the upgrades and additions they've been doing. The thing that has separated Disney from all other competitors over the years is their perceived customer service in making their destinations The Happiest Place on Earth. Reading through other threads about the decline in CM "Magic" and now this, the perceived magic appears to be heading in the wrong direction that potentially could drive loyal and would-be-first-time Disney park goers to other vacation destinations. The US brass have to be smiling from ear to ear (pun intended).

I don't think that Universal can quite compete with Disney though. I love Universal, and it would be hard to go to Orlando and not visit. However, I would not go to Orlando and not visit Disney, but I might skip Universal. Plus, we always spend about twice the amount of time at Disney as Universal. I could go to Southern California and not even go to Universal Hollywood, but I doubt I would miss Disneyland. There's still just more to do at Disney, and there's the nostalgia and childhood memories. That's harder for Universal to tap into right now.

 

[rteetz]

What confuses me about all this is that Disney World is not the only game in town anymore. Universal Studios has been gaining popularity more and more every year with all the upgrades and additions they've been doing. The thing that has separated Disney from all other competitors over the years is their perceived customer service in making their destinations The Happiest Place on Earth. Reading through other threads about the decline in CM "Magic" and now this, the perceived magic appears to be heading in the wrong direction that potentially could drive loyal and would-be-first-time Disney park goers to other vacation destinations. The US brass have to be smiling from ear to ear (pun intended).

Universal has been on a spending spree. They will likely experience the same problems in a few years.

 

[rteetz]

I don't think that Universal can quite compete with Disney though. I love Universal, and it would be hard to go to Orlando and not visit. However, I would not go to Orlando and not visit Disney, but I might skip Universal. Plus, we always spend about twice the amount of time at Disney as Universal. I could go to Southern California and not even go to Universal Hollywood, but I doubt I would miss Disneyland. There's still just more to do at Disney, and there's the nostalgia and childhood memories. That's harder for Universal to tap into right now.

Universal is working on building that nostalgia now for the future. Disney is almost coasting on it.

 

[bbjunkie]

I'm not so sure that the cuts at WDW are because of cost overruns in China. I suspect a lot of the cuts are being made because after doing a cost-benefit analysis, in many cases the hours and/or positions were unnecessary or redundant. The iPad greeters and the concierge and front desk CMs really come to mind. If the Magic Bands and MDE are working properly, the front desk personnel become largely obsolete, and most guests won't notice if there are CMs working at the desk or not. In most cases now, it is completely unnecessary for any guest to visit the check-in desk for their entire trip. Guest experiences won't be diminished because it was a service guests aren't using anyway. Yes, it absolutely sucks for the CMs that work at the front desks, but honestly it's technology that has taken those hours away, not Disney Shanghai. (By the way, if this is really a problem for you and you are really truly worried for the American worker, then I hope you always go to the grocery store clerk rather than the self check-out and you always go to the bank and have a teller process your transactions and never use the ATM. Same idea)

The limit to one Fantasmic per night is somewhat interesting. Is it because the Star Wars fireworks have become so popular that two Fantasmic showings per night are unneeded? Is the second showing of Fantasmic typically pretty empty during the times they are speaking of eliminating it? I guess I just see having only one MSEP showing for the next 5-6 weeks as not that different than usual for this time of year. Am I wrong? are there typically 2 MSEP in Febraury? (Sorry; I can never go this time of year, so I don't pay attention to how many times the nighttime shows are offered). As far as Wishes, Fantasmic, MSEP, and Illuminations in the future are concerned, I'd wait 'till summer is closer before worrying about them being offered on a limited basis. Also, they will be adding an entirely new nighttime experience with Rivers of Light starting soon, so I don't think the nighttime options are truly going to be limited long-term.

Yes, they have eliminated a few meet and greets. But just yesterday they added two, and one of them will be GIGANTIC! I assume that the Frozen presence will include another summer show, as they are adding Olaf and have moved the Frozen sing-a-long to a more permanent location. I'd guess we are going to have the Frozen Summer of Fun or similar experience again.

Yes, prices increase. Do I like it, no, but I think it is all the supply and demand. Universal just raised their prices and a one day ticket is equal to a one day Magic Kingdom ticket at $105. Is Universal competition? Sure. Is Universal also shuffling employees and shifting hours? Certainly.

As far as "paying more for a lesser experience" is concerned, I just don't think that is the case. I think of WDW as a fluid entity as Walt wanted...ever-changing and growing. Things close, get shut down, and moved. New areas are built. We lose Usborne lights, but gain Rivers of Light. We lose "Dream Along with Mickey," but will gain a different stage show. We lose Chip and Dale, but gain Mickey and Minnie on the Red Carpet. We lose check in at the front desk, but gain receiving our room number on our phone or at the guard tower. Relatively soon we'll have Pandora, followed by Star Wars land and Toy Story land.

Don't underestimate the logistical engineers at WDW. They know exactly what to expect from the Frozen ride opening, how much crowd it is expected to divert from the Magic Kingdom into Epcot, etc. They know they can pull crowds into Hollywood Studios using Olaf, etc. I think it's easy for us to blame China, but suspect there is far more to efficiency studies right there in Florida.

 

[snowybelle]

Universal is working on building that nostalgia now for the future. Disney is almost coasting on it.

Yes, this exactly!

And for newer generations, Harry Potter = major childhood nostalgia! And people are dang excited about Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Lately when I mention the word "Orlando" to normal people (read: not rabid Disney fans), the first thing they ALWAYS say is how badly they want to go to Harry Potter World. Disney is usually an afterthought, and sometimes it doesn't even come up in the conversation.When it does the comment is often "Been there, done that."

Disney may have the hearts of their frequent fliers, but I think they are experiencing some major competition from Universal in terms of attracting first-time visitors and convincing them to stay on Disney property. (Because Universal's hotels are newer, nicer, more affordable, and with that Express Pass they offer much better perks!)

And the cuts Disney is making don't even really make a blip on first-time visitor radars. They don't know any better! They just see the "magical" commercials and hear all the big news about Star Wars Land and the new Shanghai park (again, that 60th Anniversal special on ABC this weekend...!), and little things like characters being removed from Epcot and custodial staff begin diminished won't even register with them. Disney doesn't feel the need to compete with Universal at that level, because that's not what brings first-timers or twice-or-thrice-in-a-life-timers into the parks.

 

[rteetz]

I'm not so sure that the cuts at WDW are because of cost overruns in China. I suspect a lot of the cuts are being made because after doing a cost-benefit analysis, in many cases the hours and/or positions were unnecessary or redundant. The iPad greeters and the concierge and front desk CMs really come to mind. If the Magic Bands and MDE are working properly, the front desk personnel become largely obsolete, and most guests won't notice if there are CMs working at the desk or not. In most cases now, it is completely unnecessary for any guest to visit the check-in desk for their entire trip. Guest experiences won't be diminished because it was a service guests aren't using anyway. Yes, it absolutely sucks for the CMs that work at the front desks, but honestly it's technology that has taken those hours away, not Disney Shanghai. (By the way, if this is really a problem for you and you are really truly worried for the American worker, then I hope you always go to the grocery store clerk rather than the self check-out and you always go to the bank and have a teller process your transactions and never use the ATM. Same idea)

The limit to one Fantasmic per night is somewhat interesting. Is it because the Star Wars fireworks have become so popular that two Fantasmic showings per night are unneeded? Is the second showing of Fantasmic typically pretty empty during the times they are speaking of eliminating it? I guess I just see having only one MSEP showing for the next 5-6 weeks as not that different than usual for this time of year. Am I wrong? are there typically 2 MSEP in Febraury? (Sorry; I can never go this time of year, so I don't pay attention to how many times the nighttime shows are offered). As far as Wishes, Fantasmic, MSEP, and Illuminations in the future are concerned, I'd wait 'till summer is closer before worrying about them being offered on a limited basis. Also, they will be adding an entirely new nighttime experience with Rivers of Light starting soon, so I don't think the nighttime options are truly going to be limited long-term.

Yes, they have eliminated a few meet and greets. But just yesterday they added two, and one of them will be GIGANTIC! I assume that the Frozen presence will include another summer show, as they are adding Olaf and have moved the Frozen sing-a-long to a more permanent location. I'd guess we are going to have the Frozen Summer of Fun or similar experience again.

Yes, prices increase. Do I like it, no, but I think it is all the supply and demand. Universal just raised their prices and a one day ticket is equal to a one day Magic Kingdom ticket at $105. Is Universal competition? Sure. Is Universal also shuffling employees and shifting hours? Certainly.

As far as "paying more for a lesser experience" is concerned, I just don't think that is the case. I think of WDW as a fluid entity as Walt wanted...ever-changing and growing. Things close, get shut down, and moved. New areas are built. We lose Usborne lights, but gain Rivers of Light. We lose "Dream Along with Mickey," but will gain a different stage show. We lose Chip and Dale, but gain Mickey and Minnie on the Red Carpet. We lose check in at the front desk, but gain receiving our room number on our phone or at the guard tower. Relatively soon we'll have Pandora, followed by Star Wars land and Toy Story land.

Don't underestimate the logistical engineers at WDW. They know exactly what to expect from the Frozen ride opening, how much crowd it is expected to divert from the Magic Kingdom into Epcot, etc. They know they can pull crowds into Hollywood Studios using Olaf, etc. I think it's easy for us to blame China, but suspect there is far more to efficiency studies right there in Florida.

No it's not just because of China but that is part of it. Disney over spends on almost everything. Pandora is over budget, MyMagic+ was over budget, new fantasyland, Shanghai, the list goes on. Disney needs to tighten up and spend correctly.

If you aren't aware last year Disneh threw $800 million at Shanghai for "more experiences" nothing more was added to the opening day line up it was all because they needed more money.

Universal isn't having this problem yet but because they are spending so much now they will in the future.

This isn't a WDW problem this is a Parks and Resorts wide problem.

 

[shanethesaint88]

I'm not so sure that the cuts at WDW are because of cost overruns in China. I suspect a lot of the cuts are being made because after doing a cost-benefit analysis, in many cases the hours and/or positions were unnecessary or redundant. The iPad greeters and the concierge and front desk CMs really come to mind. If the Magic Bands and MDE are working properly, the front desk personnel become largely obsolete, and most guests won't notice if there are CMs working at the desk or not. In most cases now, it is completely unnecessary for any guest to visit the check-in desk for their entire trip. Guest experiences won't be diminished because it was a service guests aren't using anyway. Yes, it absolutely sucks for the CMs that work at the front desks, but honestly it's technology that has taken those hours away, not Disney Shanghai. (By the way, if this is really a problem for you and you are really truly worried for the American worker, then I hope you always go to the grocery store clerk rather than the self check-out and you always go to the bank and have a teller process your transactions and never use the ATM. Same idea)

The limit to one Fantasmic per night is somewhat interesting. Is it because the Star Wars fireworks have become so popular that two Fantasmic showings per night are unneeded? Is the second showing of Fantasmic typically pretty empty during the times they are speaking of eliminating it? I guess I just see having only one MSEP showing for the next 5-6 weeks as not that different than usual for this time of year. Am I wrong? are there typically 2 MSEP in Febraury? (Sorry; I can never go this time of year, so I don't pay attention to how many times the nighttime shows are offered). As far as Wishes, Fantasmic, MSEP, and Illuminations in the future are concerned, I'd wait 'till summer is closer before worrying about them being offered on a limited basis. Also, they will be adding an entirely new nighttime experience with Rivers of Light starting soon, so I don't think the nighttime options are truly going to be limited long-term.

Yes, they have eliminated a few meet and greets. But just yesterday they added two, and one of them will be GIGANTIC! I assume that the Frozen presence will include another summer show, as they are adding Olaf and have moved the Frozen sing-a-long to a more permanent location. I'd guess we are going to have the Frozen Summer of Fun or similar experience again.

Yes, prices increase. Do I like it, no, but I think it is all the supply and demand. Universal just raised their prices and a one day ticket is equal to a one day Magic Kingdom ticket at $105. Is Universal competition? Sure. Is Universal also shuffling employees and shifting hours? Certainly.

As far as "paying more for a lesser experience" is concerned, I just don't think that is the case. I think of WDW as a fluid entity as Walt wanted...ever-changing and growing. Things close, get shut down, and moved. New areas are built. We lose Usborne lights, but gain Rivers of Light. We lose "Dream Along with Mickey," but will gain a different stage show. We lose Chip and Dale, but gain Mickey and Minnie on the Red Carpet. We lose check in at the front desk, but gain receiving our room number on our phone or at the guard tower. Relatively soon we'll have Pandora, followed by Star Wars land and Toy Story land.

Don't underestimate the logistical engineers at WDW. They know exactly what to expect from the Frozen ride opening, how much crowd it is expected to divert from the Magic Kingdom into Epcot, etc. They know they can pull crowds into Hollywood Studios using Olaf, etc. I think it's easy for us to blame China, but suspect there is far more to efficiency studies right there in Florida.

I'm sorry but I don't see any efficiency studies happening. How does eliminating one fantasmic and MSEP make things more effient? That's the exact opposite of what it does. There isn't the normal January-easter crowds anymore. Just reading the boards everyday can tell you that. They aren't doing it to be more efficient. They are doing it to save money. You know what's more efficient? Having more cast members than needed in preparation for an influx of people at the froMt desk for example. More efficient isnt having most of downtown disneys parking closed to take forever to build a new parking garage. There are trying to save bucks and maximize profit.