FYI: More Cuts Coming

[Angel Ariel]

I think that's exactly where DLR is heading.

Haven't they already said the interface at Shanghai is going to be entirely phone based? No magicbands there either, IIRC

 

[Budshark]

I don't have any issues with adding characters to World Showcase. Meeting Ratatouille in France? Cool. Mary Poppins/Alice/Winnie the Pooh in UK? Awesome. It's not the simple addition of characters to the Norway pavilion that people have had a problem with. I had no issues with them adding the A&E meet and greet back when they did. What I have a problem with is eliminating *actual* Norway history and culture - which is what every pavilion in WS is about - and replacing it all with Frozen. The stave church exhibit is now all about Frozen. The ride and movie about Norway are gone, replaced with Frozen. The Viking Ship playground gone completely. The previously fairly authentic Akershus menu watered down to where it's at now (though certainly not the only location that's done that, unfortunately). There's very little of actual Norwegian culture and heritage left in Norway. They can add characters to a pavilion, to an attraction *without* eliminating the culture and history of the pavilion - as they did in Mexico.

I'd have no issues with adding Frozen characters and aspects to Norway if they hadn't pretty much completely replaced Norway with Arendelle in how they chose to do it.

so you'd prefer Norway and Maelstrom remain as it was? Because what is clear is no one save maybe Japan is going to do anything with their showcases. At least Japan makes interesting changes to their museum.

I get its changing. I get WS was positioned as a cultural exhibit. But that wasn't Walts original vision and it didn't work out.

So now what? I get Im in the minority here but what it was was stale. And what it is isn't known yet. So I've put my pitchfork down and haven't lit my torch until I see what it is. Because there is a pretty good chance what is behind those walls is more entertaining and fun than what was there. And that's why I go to theme parks.

 

[norjack]

I don't have any issues with adding characters to World Showcase. Meeting Ratatouille in France? Cool. Mary Poppins/Alice/Winnie the Pooh in UK? Awesome. It's not the simple addition of characters to the Norway pavilion that people have had a problem with. I had no issues with them adding the A&E meet and greet back when they did. What I have a problem with is eliminating *actual* Norway history and culture - which is what every pavilion in WS is about - and replacing it all with Frozen. The stave church exhibit is now all about Frozen. The ride and movie about Norway are gone, replaced with Frozen. The Viking Ship playground gone completely. The previously fairly authentic Akershus menu watered down to where it's at now (though certainly not the only location that's done that, unfortunately). There's very little of actual Norwegian culture and heritage left in Norway. They can add characters to a pavilion, to an attraction *without* eliminating the culture and history of the pavilion - as they did in Mexico.

I'd have no issues with adding Frozen characters and aspects to Norway if they hadn't pretty much completely replaced Norway with Arendelle in how they chose to do it.

Thank you for saying this! Visiting from Norway, I (and my family and friends who have gone with) have always enjoyed seeing our small country displayed for others to see. (Many don't even know Norway is a country, or where it's located. Capital of Scandinavia, perhaps?). I just find it strange having found Swedes and Danes working there, and now gutting the actual Norway content is extremely disappointing. Yeah, it was in sore need of an update and overhaul. Norway is a very modern society, in many ways, and continues to play a large role in world society, culture, and politics, despite our small size. It would be really awesome to show off Norwegian culture, and not simply be a paid ad for the fantasy land of Arendale...

 

[norjack]

so you'd prefer Norway and Maelstrom remain as it was? Because what is clear is no one save maybe Japan is going to do anything with their showcases. At least Japan makes interesting changes to their museum.

I get its changing. I get WS was positioned as a cultural exhibit. But that wasn't Walts original vision and it didn't work out.

So now what? I get Im in the minority here but what it was was stale. And what it is isn't known yet. So I've put my pitchfork down and haven't lit my torch until I see what it is. Because there is a pretty good chance what is behind those walls is more entertaining and fun than what was there. And that's why I go to theme parks.

I agree. It was stale, and was way past its prime. But it's still Norway, right? Or is it Arendale? How much focus is going to the imaginary country that is from somewhere in Scandinavia? And how much is Norway?

 

[Budshark]

I disagree, only because there is too much money to be made with outdated tech. Why do everything on your phone, when they can sell plastic jewelry to people, and have them personalize them for exorbitant rates? They are creating a type of game for people, imo. Getting the used to the tech, and "playing": And many times, you pay to play.

The money they make on custom magic bands is a pittance compared to what they spend shipping that stuff out to everyone who books.

And it's not an either or. The bands will still work. They can still sell them or use them for children or the .0003% who don't have a modern phone. But stop shipping them to millions. Make them the exception instead of the rule.

 

[Budshark]

I agree. It was stale, and was way past its prime. But it's still Norway, right? Or is it Arendale? How much focus is going to the imaginary country that is from somewhere in Scandinavia? And how much is Norway?

I think the idea of factual country was overplayed anyways. The fact of the matter is they show a traditional western idealized historical view of the countries. They weren't museums. They weren't actual replicas of cities in Norway. They were representative displays of the historical culture. They were based on the country and the ride was based on the culture and the movie was a marketing film.

You know. Kinda like how Areendale is based on Norway. And architecturally inspired by Norway. And the A&E ride is marketing for the property.

I know I'm in the minority but I think people are splitting hairs and trying to hold on to something that wasn't there. They aren't tearing down the smithsonian or an actual town in Norway. They are tearing down a pretend inspired by Norway fake land to put up a pretend fake land inspired by Norway that actually lines up with a Disney theme park better than the previous.

Sorry. Off topic and a minority viewpoint. I'll stop before the rabble rabble of the masses grows too loud.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm not a fan of Frozen going in there, mostly because I think it's going to be a madhouse and it deserved a new, proper space, but Norway abandoned their pavilion.

 

[Angel Ariel]

so you'd prefer Norway and Maelstrom remain as it was? Because what is clear is no one save maybe Japan is going to do anything with their showcases. At least Japan makes interesting changes to their museum.

I get its changing. I get WS was positioned as a cultural exhibit. But that wasn't Walts original vision and it didn't work out.

So now what? I get Im in the minority here but what it was was stale. And what it is isn't known yet. So I've put my pitchfork down and haven't lit my torch until I see what it is. Because there is a pretty good chance what is behind those walls is more entertaining and fun than what was there. And that's why I go to theme parks.

Where did I say I'd prefer Norway and Maelstrom remain as it was? Not liking the complete elimination of the Norwegian history and culture is not the same thing as prefering what was there, or not wanting it to change. It was stale, I completely acknowledge that, and haven't said otherwise.

The view that your post is coming across with, and TBH that I feel from DIsney also, is that it's one or the other. That they couldn't have updated the Norway pavilion to make it more entertaining, added aspects of Frozen, AND also kept the Norwegian culture and history. And TBH, I think that's a load of bunk. I think they absolutely could have done both, and they chose to take the easier/faster route to capitalize on Frozen as quickly as possible. Yes, it's a good "business" decision in terms of quick return on the investment, but it isn't about the guests at all. Everything they've done with WS of late has been whatever quick bandaid fix they can think of, and TBH I don't see the Frozen-fying of Norway as any different. It's more expensive than the entertainment "fixes" in other pavilions, but it's still a quick "fix".

Personally, I wish they would have taken their time and found a solution that would have brought Frozen to Norway, but wouldn't have completely replaced Norway within the pavilion. THey might as well call the pavilion Arendelle.

Again, please note - I am not saying what is behind those walls won't be more fun than Maelstrom. I'm sure it will be, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the attraction. I just disagree that they needed to eliminate Norway from the pavilion entirely in order to do so.

ETA: And no, I do not and never did think of the pavilion as the smithsonian. Not liking *how* they changed the pavilion, or *how* they added Disney touches does not mean someone is against changing the pavilion or adding Disney into it overall.

 

[rteetz]

Where can we find e-mail addresses or snail mail addresses for execs? Disneyland execs too (I need to write to them about the Photopass travesty )

I don't have snail mail addresses but I believe those are online somewhere. Here is phone and email.

http://www.wdwthemeparks.com/details/other/disney-contact-information

 

[rteetz]

They've already said magic bands are not coming to DLR.

But a version of FP+ is supposed to be.

 

[mom2rtk]

But a version of FP+ is supposed to be.

Probably. But no word on whether it will involve anything scheduled in advance. I hope they are really careful with what they do with that massive AP base in the area. It has the potential to really ruin things.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Disney's been sliding from theme park to amusement park for a while....thanks to Iger.

 

[Budshark]

The view that your post is coming across with, and TBH that I feel from DIsney also, is that it's one or the other. That they couldn't have updated the Norway pavilion to make it more entertaining, added aspects of Frozen, AND also kept the Norwegian culture and history. And TBH, I think that's a load of bunk. I think they absolutely could have done both, and they chose to take the easier/faster route to capitalize on Frozen as quickly as possible. Yes, it's a good "business" decision in terms of quick return on the investment, but it isn't about the guests at all. Everything they've done with WS of late has been whatever quick bandaid fix they can think of, and TBH I don't see the Frozen-fying of Norway as any different. It's more expensive than the entertainment "fixes" in other pavilions, but it's still a quick "fix".

Personally, I wish they would have taken their time and found a solution that would have brought Frozen to Norway, but wouldn't have completely replaced Norway within the pavilion. THey might as well call the pavilion Arendelle.

Again, please note - I am not saying what is behind those walls won't be more fun than Maelstrom. I'm sure it will be, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the attraction. I just disagree that they needed to eliminate Norway from the pavilion entirely in order to do so.

Honestly. No I don't think they could have found a balance. No matter what they would have fallen short in people's eyes.

I honestly feel they are doing the right thing in this case. As much as others feel they are wrong.

 

[rteetz]

Probably. But no word on whether it will involve anything scheduled in advance. I hope they are really careful with what they do with that massive AP base in the area. It has the potential to really ruin things.

From what I've heard it will be phone/app based and you make selections day of and the app knows your location so you can only make selections for that park you are in. So if you are in Disneyland you can't make FPs for DCA.

 

[rteetz]

Disney's been sliding from theme park to amusement park for a while....thanks to Iger.

I disagree here. Disney while it has declined a bit is not anywhere near a six flags.

 

[mom2rtk]

From what I've heard it will be phone/app based and you make selections day of and the app knows your location so you can only make selections for that park you are in. So if you are in Disneyland you can't make FPs for DCA.

That's what I heard too. And that's why I'm cautiously optimistic.

I guess in CA they just assume everyone has a smart phone.

 

[PlutoTheDog89]

I noticed three things over the course of our last trip.

One - The maid service was abysmal. Granted, this can happen at any resort, but our room was dirty most of the time. The rug was riddled with crumbs, the windowsill had dead bugs and most of the furniture was covered in dust. I tend to remember that maids only vacuum on your 4th day there (or something like that). We complained once and it was no better the next day. After 4 days there, we complained. The maid stormed into our room and was very nasty with us. Does that have to do anything with the cuts? Maybe, maybe not. The rooms being dirty could just be a bad maid, a bad day at the park, or an oversight. It may also be a result of less maids, meaning quicker turnover in rooms, meaning less attention to detail, which leads to dirtier rooms. I'd say the main thing pointing to this is the lack of towel animals. It used to be a given - you would get a towel animal almost every time. Now? No more. My only guess is that it takes too much time to do these animals and with a shortened staff, they cut the animals to cover more rooms.

Two - The bus transportation was terrible. Granted, it was Christmas and very crowded, but we waited almost 40 minutes for a bus on two occasions. One day, they actually sent a coach bus to pick everyone up because of a shortage of buses. Maybe it was Christmas and it was too crowded... or maybe it's a result of bus driver cuts.

Three - And most important was the cutback of EMH. As an on-site guest, we most look forward to EMHs. In fact, we shape our trip around them. In the past, there would be two late-night EMHs at Magic Kingdom. One being the first Friday or Sunday after Christmas, the other being December 30th. It's a good way to escape the crowds and experience your favorite attractions at a reduced wait time - especially during Christmas when the parks are PACKED by the afternoon. They didn't add any late-night EMHs. Only on December 30th. I was positive that they'd add another one intra-week, but they never did. There were far less EMHs and I feel like we didn't get done nearly as many things as we usually do. We did move slower and take more time to enjoy being on vacation, but the end of our trip (December 30th) felt rushed as we pushed to get in the last few rides on our must-do list.

All things considered, we'll be back. In fact, we're looking into a trip for F&W as well as Christmas. Can one more bad experience lead to us taking some time off? Sure. We go every year. I can totally see a second consecutive bad stay leading us to say "let's try someplace else next year." Sometimes you need some time away to remember how much you love something.

I do think these cuts will lead to the betterment and an improved park. What's the famous Batman quote? "The night is darkest before the dawn?" I work on the dotcom side of a fairly large retailer. Over the past 2 years, they've cut a TON of jobs. I'm fortunate enough to have survived the cuts, but have witnessed people lose their jobs overnight and the heartbreak that goes with it. Getting laid off because your company failed to manage their finances or had a bad year is extremely unfortunate. These cuts stink - from a guest and employee standpoint, but it does get better. The cuts will hopefully lead to a stabilization over the next few years and by the time Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land opens, they'll have made their money back hand over fist and have a park that guests and employees can be proud of..... for a month or two.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Honestly. No I don't think they could have found a balance. No matter what they would have fallen short in people's eyes.

I honestly feel they are doing the right thing in this case. As much as others feel they are wrong.

And this is where we'll agree to disagree I've seen what Imagineering can do when they are at their best. They absolutely could have found a balance.

It wasn't what the businessmen wanted, and I've accepted that and will enjoy what they do put there, but it isn't the best Disney could have offered.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I disagree here. Disney while it has declined a bit is not anywhere near a six flags.

Not yet..

 

[mom2rtk]

I do think these cuts will lead to the betterment and an improved park.

Which park though?

Because they said the cuts here were a result of cost overruns in Shanghai.