Future of Riveria

[Doberge]

If Disney have one foot in with restrictions and one foot out, they blow up their initial intention. Any ongoing assimilation into existing associations delays the benefit Disney would achieve by imposing restrictions at the outset.

A new restricted association will reduce competition with cheaper resale points and differentiate a direct purchase from a resale purchase (initial intention of restrictions). If they decide not to do this then it speaks to Disney having absolutely no consistent business plan or direction. Which, to be honest, wouldn't surprise me greatly.

If they do decide to include it then Riviera owners have a right to become vocal about restrictions as this will be the second resort without them and Disney have acted in poor faith.

The original intention was likely to new resorts like VDH and, at the time, Reflections. VGF and Poly 2 feel like accelerated plans from Reflections falling apart but DVD wanting new MK area inventory. As expansions I think they're more exception so I agree with others that VDH will be more telling.

Across the Board I don't think Disney does a great job long term planning WDW, most evidenced by Universal's new park and Disney seemingly caught with their pants down and no big park project to open after Tiana's Bayou Adventure. So... yeah, Disney being inconsistent and not having a real plan from one DVD leadership group to the next, that seems more likely than unlikely. That they haven't announced anything about VDH makes me think that they keep kicking the can deciding which way to go.

And I agree Riviera owners probably will, and probably should, be vocal if VDH specifically doesn't follow the same Riviera playbook.

 

[hilltopper152]

Thats fine. I just wish it was a resort that others would want to stay in. Its always available because few want to stay there.

I think this has changed and the studios are showing that when you look at dates. It cost less for several reasons but of course any resort where you have park access it will be more popular. AK is a great resort but getting in there is not hard, OKW is boring and I would never stay there but its cheap, BR is not hard to get into but a great place. Location matters but there is also a place for it and it is hard to have every resort be equally desired especially when some resorts are just a fraction in size.

 

[hilltopper152]

IMO, the next Skyliner is HS to Coronado to TTC. There's empty spot between Coronado and TTC for building.

This would eliminate buses at a massive cash resort (Coronado) and connect MK to Epcot and HS.

This would make Poly the best location in DVC and maybe Disney.

That is a long ecosystem of travel to trust to work right on the way to the park. Cool idea for vloggers and casuals to cruise on. I think a skyliner that moves people to AK or HS would be beneficial to many and Coronado could almost be priced as a deluxe at that point.

 

[hilltopper152]

Yeah the number of people who are convinced it will be the same association is surprising to me. I don't know what possible incentive they would have to not make a new association and apply the resale restrictions to it. There's no evidence they are abandoning their plan to severely restrict resale contracts at new resorts. They could have restricted VGF2 and didn't I guess, but a new restricted association for just adding some studios to an existing building would be a stretch.

To me VDH will tell the tale. It's a new building from the ground up, with all the room categories, like Riviera (and Poly2). If they decide not to restrict it, that will be solid evidence they're not so in love with the restriction strategy. If it's restricted, I say no way Poly2 won't be a new association. Then again they've shocked me before, so who knows.

Poly 2 is not that big and sits on top of the same resort with the same support it provides. It is about to milk the monorail issue, pools, and dining. It really feels not much different than a slight bonus over what happened at Grand. They can make a case but I feel like it is too attached to the current Poly and not enough space for increased service support staff to be considered it's own thing.

This whole thread about restricitions with RIV is interesting but adding 3-5 new resorts with resale restrictions is a big gamble on long term value and a slow process. Hard to know what is not known about the future but it affected me in my buy in decision. I think I am close to 50/50 on this being a new association with the understanding that out in California they are probably going to add restricitions. If they do not it will probably be the end of it.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Poly 2 is not that big and sits on top of the same resort with the same support it provides. It is about to milk the monorail issue, pools, and dining. It really feels not much different than a slight bonus over what happened at Grand. They can make a case but I feel like it is too attached to the current Poly and not enough space for increased service support staff to be considered it's own thing.

This whole thread about restricitions with RIV is interesting but adding 3-5 new resorts with resale restrictions is a big gamble on long term value and a slow process. Hard to know what is not known about the future but it affected me in my buy in decision. I think I am close to 50/50 on this being a new association with the understanding that out in California they are probably going to add restricitions. If they do not it will probably be the end of it.

I get what you're saying but I would disagree that Poly2, with a new building, new pool, new dining, new room sizes, its own lobby, etc is not much different than what they did at VGF. I'd say it's very different. Doesn't mean they will make it a separate association, but I think they'd have a much stronger case for it than they would have with VGF2.

 

[hilltopper152]

I get what you're saying but I would disagree that Poly2, with a new building, new pool, new dining, new room sizes, its own lobby, etc is not much different than what they did at VGF. I'd say it's very different. Doesn't mean they will make it a separate association, but I think they'd have a much stronger case for it than they would have with VGF2.

Stronger case for sure but I struggle to see how they get to milk the paths of the resort, transportation options, and staff support. It may be different but it seems like it drains resources and less likely to succeed on it's own merits but my opinion sounds much stronger than I intend for it to be. I just felt like many were quick to assume it will be it's own thing simply to support the notion of continued restrictions. From DVC perspective it seems to make sense to sell it together I feel in every way except losing the ability to provide restrictions. Maybe the price per point and point chart cost are second advantages but in the end I think this is a closer to a toss up.

 

[Sandisw]

Stronger case for sure but I struggle to see how they get to milk the paths of the resort, transportation options, and staff support. It may be different but it seems like it drains resources and less likely to succeed on it's own merits but my opinion sounds much stronger than I intend for it to be. I just felt like many were quick to assume it will be it's own thing simply to support the notion of continued restrictions. From DVC perspective it seems to make sense to sell it together I feel in every way except losing the ability to provide restrictions. Maybe the price per point and point chart cost are second advantages but in the end I think this is a closer to a toss up.

Regardless of the association, those costs get shared based on an occupancy formula with the hotel side.

So, the decision really doesn’t impact what owners will pay other than the potential that PVB owners would see a higher share of things like transportation if rolled into one vs having a different one. Not that I expect it to be too noticeable with more points, but it doesn’t save money on shared costs choosing one way or the other.

It really comes down, at least IMO, to whether or not they want to keep the restrictions as a selling point. Rumor I heard last week was that we might get the answer when VDH info is released.