Future Adjustments to the Point Charts?

CarolMN

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1BR are the last to go and in the past getting a 1BR anywhere on property for the summer at 7 months would have been very easy. Maybe not 1BR Value or standard, but even for those you'd have had a chance with a waitlist.
The future is more difficult to predict. First there are all the extra points due to Covid cancellations that will need to be used. This will make availability for the next 2-3 years much worst than in the past.
Long term, DVC has done for the 2021 a point reallocation lowering the point cost during the summer (and increasing in the fall). This can be just the first step, as there is a limit how much they can reallocate every year, so big reallocations have to be done over multiple years. It is possible that lowering the cost of summer it might become a more popular period.
Long story short: I think if you're looking at 1BR you should be fine to switch at 7 months after the Covid wave will pass, but don't buy SSR if you wouldn't be happy to stay there if/when you cannot switch.
The above is a partial quote from another thread. It reminded me that there is a good possibility that DVCMC isn't done with the reallocation that begins with the 2021 charts (at least that is what I think).

Will 2022 bring more chart adjustments? Will they hold them off for another year or two so the pandemic "wave" can work through the system? Will they try again to increase the lock-off premium? (That could increase availability and help absorb the "wave").

My guess is that they will hold off until travel to WDW picks up again to avoid upsetting Members so soon after a lot of them lost points. Might be wishful thinking on my part. I do not want more adjustments.

Wondering what others think?
 
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The above is a partial quote from another thread. It reminded me that there is a good possibility that DVCMC probably isn't done with the reallocation that begins with the 2021 charts (at least that is what I think).

Will 2022 bring more chart adjustments? Will they hold them off for another year or two so the pandemic "wave" can work through the system? Will they try again to increase the lock-off premium? (That could increase availability and help absorb the "wave").

My guess is that they will hold off until travel to WDW picks up again to avoid upsetting Members so soon after a lot of them lost points. Might be wishful thinking on my part. I do not want more adjustments.

Wondering what others think?

My guess: I don't think they're done yet. For example adding the third week of December to the same season as the first two seems a strange move, unless they wanted to prepare for another reallocation increasing all three at the same time. Those first two weeks are still very convenient, so much so that I'm planning to book early December 2021 before they increase them again.

However it might be possible that they won't do it in 2022. A reallocation is by definition unpopular. They take points from unpopular times and increase them at popular times. Thsi might not be the right year to do it again.
Also, when they usually publish the new charts the booking window for Early December hasn't even opened yet. How can they judge if the reallocation has already had its effect? It might be wise to see what happens for a couple of years before reallocating again.
However for the week days-week ends reallocation they did it on consecutive years, so who knows?
 
I think that they will do some changes but do wonder if all that was being considered last year will make it in to the new charts.

I do not think they will attempt the lock off premium change to absorb as that would surely cause a big issue.
 
As many have previously opined there is some possibility a second wave of point shifting from higher demand to lower demand seasons similar to that for 2021 will be made for 2022. That is what occurred a decade ago when a major shift of points from weekend days to weekday was made. The shift occurred over two years, mainly because the total shift done over the two year period that DVC made exceeded a 20% daily change for some of the times and rooms, and points for any given room cannot be lowered or raised for any particular date more than 20% in any one year absent an actual vote of the members.

My personal sense is that, even if a 2022 change is in the plans, it might be delayed. or consist of only minor changes, because of Covid, not accelerated, because DVC may now believe it necessary to wait a couple years to see what the actual impact the Covid changes may have on reservation patterns.

For example, beginning about three months ago, many have expressed a belief that demand for 2021 would become a real problem because of the move of points from 2020 to 2021 as a result of the Covid problems. However, from what I have thus far been seeing for reservations at the 11-month and 7-month windows in 2021, that excess demand is not actually occurring, at least not yet. Availability at 11-months out appears to be about the same that it has has been in past years, with those rooms usually having an 11-month issue still having it on about the same frequency and the rest of the rooms still being readily available.

The same has been occurring for 7-month reservations, with rooms usually booked full before 7-months out during the applicable times during prior years being booked full in 2021 and those usually open at 7-months out still being open. The feared excess demand may not be occurring due to Covid factors offsetting the significant increase in overall available points, e.g., many members may not even be making reservations because they are instead waiting for a vaccine to be readily available before even considering it, or they have had financial issues develop putting off taking any trips to WDW in 2021.

Though DVC asserts it has the right, despite prior written representations otherwise, to significantly raise points needed for studios and 1BRs year-round (the lock-off premium issue), my guess is we will not see that one again, at least not soon. Though it is true that a member might no longer be able to trust the modern DVC to avoid taking actions designed to do injury to members for the sake of making more profits (e.g., all the moves it has done to satisfy its desire to destroy resale purchasers), DVC did withdraw its previous attempt to raise studios and 1BRs year-round, and it appears it changed that plan to one perusing the alternative plan, as it did for 2021, of allowed shifts of points among seasons.
 
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Though DVC asserts it has the right, despite prior written representations otherwise, to significantly raise points needed for studios and 1BRs year-round (the lock-off premium issue), my guess is we will not see that one again, at least not soon. Though it is true that a member might no longer be able to trust the modern DVC to avoid taking actions designed to do injury to members for the sake of making more profits (e.g., all the moves it has done to satisfy its desire to destroy resale purchasers), DVC did withdraw its previous attempt to raise studios and 1BRs year-round, and it appears it changed that plan to one perusing the alternative plan, as it did for 2021, of allowed shifts of points among seasons.

I hope you are correct on this one.

I know some believed that DVC's prior written representations prohibited reallocations between studios and 1BRs and different sized units in general, but I am guessing that ship sailed when DVC reallocated the TreeHouse Villas point charts. I can accept that studios may become more expensive and 1BRs cheaper in order to balance demand.

But if the timeshare sleaze factor takes over and DVC tries to raise both studios and 1BRs purely out of greed to get their hands on more units to rent for cash, I will be looking for a way out.
 
Given the current climate I doubt they would have an appetite to upset anyone at this time. Yes, I think there will be more changes but don’t think it will happen in the next round of point charts
 
I think the next 5 years are already laid out and they will continue as planned. They have some future state for points in mind they don't just randomly create all new seasons for points and combine and separate certain days. Last year I think was simply to set up this years initial actual change.

My prediction:
December 1-23 to go to Tier C
Oct 1—Nov 23 to Tier D
Nov 27—30 to Tier D
Tier E to be reduced by the increases

Currently:
Tier A
Sep 1—19
Tier B
Jan 1—31; Sep 20—30; Dec 1—23
Tier C
May 1—Jun 10; Oct 1—Nov 23; Nov 27—30
Tier D
Feb 1—15; Aug 16—31
Tier E
Apr 11—30; Jun 11—Aug 15
Tier F
Feb 16—28; Mar 1—27; Apr 5—10; Nov 24—26
Tier G
Mar 28—Apr 4; Dec 24—31
 
That is what occurred a decade ago when a major shift of points from weekend days to weekday was made. The shift occurred over two years, mainly because the total shift done over the two year period that DVC made exceeded a 20% daily change for some of the times and rooms, and points for any given room cannot be lowered or raised for any particular date more than 20% in any one year absent an actual vote of the members.
Oh the outcry then. That’s when we decided to do split trips onsite at Universal for long weekends Worked out quite well, as we then had enough points to work in another trip each year via combined DVC

my thots are 3 & 4 weekend visits Using DVC points will become even more popular with ‘locals...those within a few hours drive’

effectively making to more difficult for those looking for a whole week to book

expecting DVC may increase weekend point requirements, yet again
 
It's probably inevitable that adjusting the points charts to redefine high demand times will continue. In fact, one could argue that this is the perfect time to do this since so many members have an excess of points due to 2020 trip cancellations. When folks have points they "need" to use, they tend to make that the primary goal and don't really think about maximizing them for efficient use. Like burning points for cabins, bungalows, grand villas, studio folks turn into 1-BR folks, etc... And of course, new members won't care at all.

Increasing the costs for high demand times now solves two problems, allows members to "burn" up these excess points at a higher rate and gets us used to the higher points charts at a time when we may not be as concerned about points costs as we normally might.
 
Remember what hurts one helps another. So the increase will be offset by a decrease somewhere else. That means someone might be able to get one more day out of their trip, or increase size of lodging or even try new lodging that they never would have before.
They cant, I know they tried, increase the total points for the resorts.
1 persons trash is anothers treasure.
 
Remember what hurts one helps another. So the increase will be offset by a decrease somewhere else. That means someone might be able to get one more day out of their trip, or increase size of lodging or even try new lodging that they never would have before.
They cant, I know they tried, increase the total points for the resorts.
1 persons trash is anothers treasure.
I hope they send some trash my way.
 
I hope you are correct on this one.
But if the timeshare sleaze factor takes over and DVC tries to raise both studios and 1BRs purely out of greed to get their hands on more units to rent for cash, I will be looking for a way out.

Every time I consider selling some points and leaving, I start to remember that this has become a way of life for me. And, if I sell, Disney just gets a fresh customer.

So, I will stay. I will probably eat most breakfasts in my room (I still like to do at least one foray over to Ale & Compass and use a DVC discount plus a discounted gift card) and as my old non expiring WDW ticket supply diminishes, I will look for other options. It doesn't take long to get to Universal or SeaWorld from my resort room at BWV.

Thanks to Walt's foresight, there is so much in Orlando to enjoy! And the beaches on each coast plus in addition Florida has some gorgeous State Parks! So much to enjoy, while staying in my nice, safe and paid for Disney rooms! Plus, all the fabulous dining opportunities that are outside the Disney bubble! There is no shortage of entertainment in Florida.

And, if worse comes to worse, rent out points as the glut lessens. Competition for Disney! Renting out a few thousand's worth helps pay dues and leaves a few vacations for me - basically for free! The more I see Disney moving away from the Dream, the more I know I have to create my own dreams.
 
Every time I consider selling some points and leaving, I start to remember that this has become a way of life for me. And, if I sell, Disney just gets a fresh customer.

So, I will stay. I will probably eat most breakfasts in my room (I still like to do at least one foray over to Ale & Compass and use a DVC discount plus a discounted gift card) and as my old non expiring WDW ticket supply diminishes, I will look for other options. It doesn't take long to get to Universal or SeaWorld from my resort room at BWV.

Thanks to Walt's foresight, there is so much in Orlando to enjoy! And the beaches on each coast plus in addition Florida has some gorgeous State Parks! So much to enjoy, while staying in my nice, safe and paid for Disney rooms! Plus, all the fabulous dining opportunities that are outside the Disney bubble! There is no shortage of entertainment in Florida.

And, if worse comes to worse, rent out points as the glut lessens. Competition for Disney! Renting out a few thousand's worth helps pay dues and leaves a few vacations for me - basically for free! The more I see Disney moving away from the Dream, the more I know I have to create my own dreams.
This is us too. We have expanded and have a few trips of non parks under our belt.
 
If they had a multi year plan in place, like they did a few years ago, I suspect they'll follow through as they would have already had the changes worked out and to delay would force them to redo a lot of the work going forward. As to the 1 BR/studio to 2 BR balance, as I read the POS there is no legal protection unless there are dedicated units of the smaller units. The other way they would approach it is to designate certain lockoff's as 2 BR and not have them bookable as the smaller components and to shift the balance between the smaller units making the studios slightly moe expensive and the 1 BR less so. Legally they're tasked with balancing demand.
 
allowed shifts of points among seasons
As to the 1 BR/studio to 2 BR balance, as I read the POS there is no legal protection unless there are dedicated units of the smaller units.
These two bring up a question I find interesting: it seems relatively clear that demand for studios is too high, while demand for 1BRs is too low, more or less year-round. Let's assume for a moment that it would benefit owners as a whole by evening out the demand between these two by raising the points for one with a corresponding lowering of points for the other.

Given the way units are defined, is this possible at most/all resorts? I'm not sure. My understanding is that they can only make adjustments within the constraint that the annual points per declared unit are kept constant. Is that understanding correct? If so, what are the implications at each resort for the possibility of re-balancing studio points vs. those required for 1BRs?
 
These two bring up a question I find interesting: it seems relatively clear that demand for studios is too high, while demand for 1BRs is too low, more or less year-round. Let's assume for a moment that it would benefit owners as a whole by evening out the demand between these two by raising the points for one with a corresponding lowering of points for the other.

Given the way units are defined, is this possible at most/all resorts? I'm not sure. My understanding is that they can only make adjustments within the constraint that the annual points per declared unit are kept constant. Is that understanding correct? If so, what are the implications at each resort for the possibility of re-balancing studio points vs. those required for 1BRs?
As I read the POS there are no constraints to adjusting one villa size compared to another as long as the total points for the full villas stays the same. They could clearly raise studios and lower 1 BR if they wanted and truthfully, they likely should. Some would hold that the "unit" designations would prevent this and a lot of other changes but I don't think so and DVC clearly doesn't as we've had many reallocations over the years that would have been problematic with this view. As I read the POS the only constraint is that the points for the entire resort are "the same" compared to the "base year". Some would hold that they had to be the same to the penny but this is clearly not a reasonable interpretation. Realize that a "unit" with DVC is not a villa but rather a block of villas that were declared as a group. In some cases it's a single cabin or 3 BR but often it's a group of villas. And for VB they retroactively changed the units as they were originally declared as full floors but that meant they were all bookable on points and not within non declared inventory for rental or other usage by DVD. I would expect some type of change along these lines over the next few years to even out demand.
 
+1 on "proceed as planned". Besides, we're talking about a change that would go into effect January 2022. I don't see a reallocation as an issue. In fact, on the contrary, they need to balance demand now more than ever with the excess points in the system.

A big target, IMHO, is the first half of December. If there is another change, that would certainly go up again. I'd personally like to see Studios go up slightly and 1BRs come down. Although I'm sure many would disagree on that one! ;)
 
And for VB they retroactively changed the units as they were originally declared as full floors
I hadn't realized this. Yeah, if they can change the definition of the Unit, then all things are possible.
 
I hadn't realized this. Yeah, if they can change the definition of the Unit, then all things are possible.
It's certainly different and I'm not sure if they changed any for VB that were already sold out though I suspect they weren't else no reason to change those. Maybe someone is more familiar with exactly what/how they did so than I am. Likely the best example of changes to their advantage and away from owners is the ability to bank until the last day of the UY for retail but not resale buyers.
 












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