Ft Worth Texas Gay Bar Raid

[jlewisinsyr]

So you've traveled to Dallas on business a few times. That doesn't constitute living here for years to see what it's like. Just sayin'. I just don't see why you have to come into this thread and immediately take the police departments side and discount the gay patrons without a blink of an eye?

It's like you're just discounting what happened as nothing but a bunch of drunken ****'s who probably asked for it.

I didn't defend the police directly, I defended the fact we do not know the whole story, we are no better then anyone else jumping to conclusions about someone's actions or the chain of events. I countered the immediate assumptions that were put in place by you as well as others. Asking for an open mind, isn't that what we ask from others?

 

[zeitzeuge]

I didn't defend the police directly, I defended the fact we do not know the whole story, we are no better then anyone else jumping to conclusions about someone's actions or the chain of events. I countered the immediate assumptions that were put in place by you as well as others. Asking for an open mind, isn't that what we ask from others?

Yes, a forum is a place of discussion and debate. A place to share ideas and thoughts. Not a place to immediately jump in and play devil's advocate and trying to stir up the pot.

Did you read all of the articles, google search online for as much information that you can find, see the daily news reports here in the city and hear all the debates that are going on? Did you see how long it took for the police to make a statement? Did you see that they're finally making an investigation because they believe that there is posible wrong doing by the part of the Ft Worth police department? I'm guessing not.

There is an art to discussion and debating. There is a way of proposing questions and giving opinions.

Sorry, but when something happens to a gay person or group in my community I'm going to try and stand up for them and not immediately point the finger and lay blame upon them. If I find out that the patrons were gropping and fondling the officers like the Police Chief states they did and they can PROVE that the patrons were idiotic enough to pull such a stupid stunt, then I will say fine, shame on the patrons.

Using abusive measures to do so still isn't right no how matter how much you cover it up. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Yes, a forum is a place of discussion and debate. A place to share ideas and thoughts. Not a place to immediately jump in and play devil's advocate and trying to stir up the pot.

Did you read all of the articles, google search online for as much information that you can find, see the daily news reports here in the city and hear all the debates that are going on? Did you see how long it took for the police to make a statement? Did you see that they're finally making an investigation because they believe that there is posible wrong doing by the part of the Ft Worth police department? I'm guessing not.

There is an art to discussion and debating. There is a way of proposing questions and giving opinions.

Sorry, but when something happens to a gay person or group in my community I'm going to try and stand up for them and not immediately point the finger and lay blame upon them. If I find out that the patrons were gropping and fondling the officers like the Police Chief states they did and they can PROVE that the patrons were idiotic enough to pull such a stupid stunt, then I will say fine, shame on the patrons.

Using abusive measures to do so still isn't right no how matter how much you cover it up. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

I wasn't stirring the pot, and yes I have viewed/read a lot of the news coverage (both video and text). Proposing an alternative solution is a very effective way of presenting a different view/opinion. Sorry you seem offended that someone doesn't agree with you. You call it playing devil's advocate, I call it offering a different opinion, one that was not yet expressed in the posts, and I wasn't doing it just to be difficult, but because I could see, objectively both sides and think more needs to be understood before people start with the sexuality discrimination, police brutality charge.

In regards to no statement, I don't blame them, I think in this day and age, immediately coming out with a statement is often a BAD move as it causes knee jerk reaction and can be misconstrued. In regards to the action of follow-up and investigation, it has happened because of the push back and it rightfully so, it should be investigated. Maybe they should have agreed to investigate quicker. All the same, whatever is found out, be provided to the public so that the facts are understood.

As for jumping up and standing up for someone else, good for you, I don't do that, I try to look objectively before I blindly start defending someone elses actions, asking questions to generate thought, etc. I'd rather stand nuetral until more is understood about the situation then stand on one side yelling at the other and possibly have to fall back to a defensive position when different facts are released (again, not saying that it will happen that way, but as an example).

 

[zeitzeuge]

I wasn't stirring the pot, and yes I have viewed/read a lot of the news coverage (both video and text). Proposing an alternative solution is a very effective way of presenting a different view/opinion. Sorry you seem offended that someone doesn't agree with you. You call it playing devil's advocate, I call it offering a different opinion, one that was not yet expressed in the posts, and I wasn't doing it just to be difficult, but because I could see, objectively both sides and think more needs to be understood before people start with the sexuality discrimination, police brutality charge.

In regards to no statement, I don't blame them, I think in this day and age, immediately coming out with a statement is often a BAD move as it causes knee jerk reaction and can be misconstrued. In regards to the action of follow-up and investigation, it has happened because of the push back and it rightfully so, it should be investigated. Maybe they should have agreed to investigate quicker. All the same, whatever is found out, be provided to the public so that the facts are understood.

As for jumping up and standing up for someone else, good for you, I don't do that, I try to look objectively before I blindly start defending someone elses actions, asking questions to generate thought, etc. I'd rather stand nuetral until more is understood about the situation then stand on one side yelling at the other and possibly have to fall back to a defensive position when different facts are released (again, not saying that it will happen that way, but as an example).

Well then there's the difference between you and I as I'm sure there are scores of others.

I stand up for my beliefs and what I think is right. You decide to sit back and wait to see which side you should be on. Fine, good for you. You go ahead and play Switzerland. No offense to all our Swiss friends out there. But, I can't sit by and do that.

Oh and by the way, I'm not on the other side yelling. In my head I my be screaming at you, but as you an see, I've not used all caps once. Underlining, italics and bold, yes

Oh and thanks SO much for taking the whole point of this post, which was to inform people of what is going on in our community, offering it up for them to make their own decisions and cause them to take action or not, and turn it into a place for you to strike up a "debate/discussion" whether or not the patrons or police are at fault.

Thanks. That totally was my intention.

 

[soulmates]

in the words of the most GORGEOUS man alive, Rob Lowe.."It's pretty outta hand"

Trying to lend my comic relief, to a sticky stituation!

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I stand up for my beliefs and what I think is right. You decide to sit back and wait to see which side you should be on. Fine, good for you. You go ahead and play Switzerland. No offense to all our Swiss friends out there. But, I can't sit by and do that.

There is a big difference to not taking sides at the first draw of a sword and never taking sides at all. I firmly stand in my beliefs, but I also believe in being fair and waiting for the facts to be on the table.

Oh and by the way, I'm not on the other side yelling. In my head I my be screaming at you, but as you an see, I've not used all caps once. Underlining, italics and bold, yes

Really...maybe you should have said, "yet."

... thanks SO much for taking the whole point of this post, which was to inform people of what is going on in our community, offering it up for them to make their own decisions and cause them to take action or not, and turn it into a place for you to strike up a "debate/discussion" whether or not the patrons or police are at fault.

And as you mention...offering them to make their own decisions, and I did, and also added to the conversation, offering another side and something for people to consider. I'm sorry you don't agree with my stance and take it personally and find it combative, but it is not meant to be. You stated your opinion (as did others after), and I stated mine. Just because mine isn't as pro-gay as yours doesn't mean its wrong.

Forums are a wonderful tool that people can share and exchange thoughts and opinions. You have shared yours, I have conversely shared mine. We may not agree, but that is alright, it still acheives the same effect of sharing and conversing.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I too go to Dallas for work. One of my coworkers lives in Ft. Worth. Yes, she's a lesbian living with her long term partner too.

I'll take her perspective, thanks. I find it more valid than a distant alternative viewpoint, regardless of the entertainment value of that viewpoint.

Mr. Z, I'm sorry this is happening in your neck of the woods. I'm more horrified at the experiences you (and she and her partner) have had.

If I were a paranoid person, I'd venture to fear that the raid was done precisely on Stonewall Weekend for a distinct purpose.

Do I know that? Nope. But I don't have to step in dog **** to smell the stink either.

There are pockets of repression in many areas of this country, but there are areas that are dangerously worse than others.

Take care. Be safe.

 

[zeitzeuge]

Thanks DVC, appreciate it.

As far as the thread is concerned. It's dropped. The whole purpose for the thread was hijacked and ruined as far as I'm concerned.

 

[OrlandoMike]

I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. No use beating a dead horse!

If there are any developments on this story please feel free to start a new post.

Mike