Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[tidefan]

I think that CFW is going to be a really tough sell with resale restrictions, even if it had a multi-site Trust, but I think it would be an even more difficult sell if it is just on it's own. This is a niche product anyway, trying to sell it where this is the only place you could use it would be very difficult, IMHO.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m with you and @Brian Noble and @Sykes. I really think it will function as it does today and just be a different legal framework. You will buy an interest in a resort trust with 11m booking priority and have access to other resort trusts at 7m. This will be confirmed if there is an addition resort (could be Poly 2) with its own resort trust.

How are guides going to sell 2 different products? On the one hand, a deeded ownership in RIV, VDH and AUL. On the other hand, ownership interest in a trust at CFW. I suppose this would work if the difference is just a legal framework and they tell buyers that for all intents and purposes both operate the same way.

If they decide to add the undeclared units at RIV, VDH, and AUL to the trust, I think they would no longer sell the deeded interests.

DVD controls how many points have been declared against sold. So, they wait until they are at a point to consider it sold out for what is there now. And that is when the rest of the units are put into the trust.

Take RIV…75% has been declared so that would become the new total for deeded interests. Once it gets sold close ti that, that’s it and the only option from that oh y forward would with through a trust.

Now, seeing that 75% of RIV is already declared, it may be less likely to see that go into the trust.

But for VDH? They could definitely adjust things as not much is there yet.

 

[Brian Noble]

trying to sell it where this is the only place you could use it would be very difficult

But that's not Disney's problem. That's the hypothetical problem of some prospective owner far in the future, and that prospect is not thinking about it as a problem. They are not thinking about the day they won't want this thing. Instead, the prospect is thinking about how great it would be to "invest in their family's togetherness" and "guarantee decades of vacations at today's prices."

For the vast majority of buyers, timeshare is a lifestyle purchase, not a financial decision. If that weren't true, most timeshare developers would be up a creek. The DIS DVC forums is a little slice of alternate reality, and we live in a very different world from the typical buyer. It's sort of like TUGgers vs. timeshare owners in general.

 

[tidefan]

But that's not Disney's problem. That's the hypothetical problem of some prospective owner far in the future, and that prospect is not thinking about it as a problem. They are not thinking about the day they won't want this thing. Instead, the prospect is thinking about how great it would be to "invest in their family's togetherness" and "guarantee decades of vacations at today's prices."

For the vast majority of buyers, timeshare is a lifestyle purchase, not a financial decision. If that weren't true, most timeshare developers would be up a creek. The DIS DVC forums is a little slice of alternate reality, and we live in a very different world from the typical buyer. It's sort of like TUGgers vs. timeshare owners in general.

@Brian Noble , I completely agree with your assessment of the average timeshare buyer, but I can't see anybody with current knowledge of the system wanting to buy this, and that in and of itself will probably slow sales. And who knows, with the advent of places to get information like this, perhaps people are better educated than they were 10-20 years ago.

Of course, there is always the ultimate trigger, that of price point, which we don't know yet, but I still think this is a hard sell. It's not even at a prime moderate position (which I would put maybe Gran Destino and perhaps POFQ), and quite honestly, is in the worst location in Fort Wilderness when compared to the camping loops.

All that said, you are probably right, someone will buy this without having even driven over to look at Fort Wilderness...

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I feel like the entire strategy of the trust is to sell DVC holistically instead of selling each resort. Selling each resort made sense when there were only a handful. But now they have a timeshare portfolio, and they can use the trust to sell Disney as a whole, which I think is more marketable. I personally think it makes a lot of sense for DVC to do a trust, though I still think the 'Palmetto' branding for the trust is weird.

It is already a timeshare portfolio at seven months

 

[Brian Noble]

I can't see anybody with current knowledge of the system wanting to buy this

If by "knowledge" you mean "knows about what the average DIS-DVC forum member does", most of people aren't buying from the developer anyway outside of a few very specific bargains. So it's fine.

If by "knowledge" you mean "current owners," well--spend some time talking to folks in the hot tub next time you are there, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Bo1203]

I think that CFW is going to be a really tough sell with resale restrictions, even if it had a multi-site Trust, but I think it would be an even more difficult sell if it is just on it's own. This is a niche product anyway, trying to sell it where this is the only place you could use it would be very difficult, IMHO.

If the point chart turns out the way it’s looking, about the same as a studio, and sleeps 6, it would sell.

 

[tidefan]

If the point chart turns out the way it’s looking, about the same as a studio, and sleeps 6, it would sell.

I think the bigger question would be if you would need 11 month access. For Halloween and Christmas, I could see that, but then, I would think that if that was one's desire, it would be best to look at a Fixed Week.

For other times of the year, I don't think this is going to be hard to get into.

 

[CarolynFH]

If by "knowledge" you mean "current owners," well--spend some time talking to folks in the hot tub next time you are there, and you'll see what I mean.

Or read some of the FB groups my DH tells me about....

 

[Jlo85]

Interesting that when Marriott went from legacy weeks to a trust they immediately rolled every resort into the trust 2 months after the trust agreement was filed (which was yesterday for DVC). So, we should know pretty soon how this will go.

 

[MyDogTink]

Are there a lot of people accustomed to staying at the cabins that will buy CFW because there is no other way to stay there in the future?

 

[CarolynFH]

Are there a lot of people accustomed to staying at the cabins that will buy CFW because there is no other way to stay there in the future?

Worry not! Disney will still have cabins to rent for cash, just like in all the other DVC resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Are there a lot of people accustomed to staying at the cabins that will buy CFW because there is no other way to stay there in the future?

Right now they activated 30 cabins into the trust. That is it and just like all resorts, nothing beyond the initial declaration needs to happen.

So, they will be in control of all the cabins and will activate them into DVC when and if they need them for sales.

 

[Sandisw]

Interesting that when Marriott went from legacy weeks to a trust they immediately rolled every resort into the trust 2 months after the trust agreement was filed (which was yesterday for DVC). So, we should know pretty soon how this will go.

From what @drusba posted, the laws changed in 2015 which was after some of these other did what they did.

And, you look at the way the trust documents are written and how they activated the units and created a right to use plan for CFW, I do not see anyway for them to add anything but full units moving forward

They have define the trust property and units declared already to current resorts can’t be split up.

So, I don’t think this is the same situation as that.

 

[KimMcGowan]

Let’s say they add multiple properties to the trust. Do you think this is when they have an offer to wash resale points? Wash your points for x dollars per point and be part of the trust. Not saying i like it - but washing has been speculated on multiple times.

 

[MyDogTink]

Let’s say they add multiple properties to the trust. Do you think this is when they have an offer to wash resale points? Wash your points for x dollars per point and be part of the trust. Not saying i like it - but washing has been speculated on multiple times.

I was thinking that may be possible. Didn’t others familiar with Marriott say they offered them the ability to switch to the trust?

 

[Brian Noble]

Didn’t others familiar with Marriott say they offered them the ability to switch to the trust?

Not exactly. Enrolling a week give the owner access an exchange where you can elect a year’s use for points. That year’s use then becomes available for others with points to book.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

The DVC membership agreement does currently give those who buy the trust plan owners at CFW that one month. But, if future plans are added, they can amend that to have a reciprocal agreement and nothing would prevent that because both would say that.

Since these RTU plans are no ownership interests in the property, the trust POS and the resurgent use plans are what govern the rules.

My example was just to say that if they want to give those who buy into different plans, assuming they exist in the future, rights to the other resort, then it can be structured that way.

But, I am talking new units added and not ones that have been declared and sold as deeded interests.

Since we don’t know what is going to happen until we get another trust property at a different location added, it’s potential ways DVD is setting this up.

If I had to guess, I lean more to 11 month advantage to one’s own RTU plan resort, 10 month advantage to other trust property and then trading via BVTC to all others…we shall see!

I will add that if they do not add any of Poly tower to this trust and sell it as normal, then I will lean toward status quo for the program in all practical purposes for booking.

Maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong. Say the remaining RIV points are declared and put into the trust. Isn't the trust the actual owner just like us and would have to follow the original POS at a higher level? Then the trust itself would have its own POS and rules? Or do the points just get "declared into the trust" (or whatever this is called) and bypass the original POS?

 

[Cfabar1]

Interesting that when Marriott went from legacy weeks to a trust they immediately rolled every resort into the trust 2 months after the trust agreement was filed (which was yesterday for DVC). So, we should know pretty soon how this will go.

The current way the Disney trust is set up (based on what we know), this would not be possible.

 

[Cfabar1]

Maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong. Say the remaining RIV points are declared and put into the trust. Isn't the trust the actual owner just like us and would have to follow the original POS at a higher level? Then the trust itself would have its own POS and rules? Or do the points just get "declared into the trust" (or whatever this is called) and bypass the original POS?

In the case of Riviera, the undeclared points are not part of the association right now.

So, they are not governed by the POS, or anything else. They are owned by Disney, and those rooms Disney can do whatever they would like with them.

I am skeptical, given the large amount of points that were recently declared into RIV (the largest or 2nd largest ever) that RIV finds its way into the trust.

I have many concerns with the cabins even beyond the trust including, but not limited to:
- What does maintenance/replacement look like?
- Will dues be extremely high given the resort's unique needs
- What do the points charts look like (sounds like maybe not too bad)?
- How are they Disney Deluxe accommodations?
- The room layout I would not personally find enjoyable
- The location is not ideal for me, though I do love the nature approach
- The waffling on pet-friendly