Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[BeachClub2014]

From an outside perspective, it seems to be more of a long term business decision solution to push direct sales upward even with the resale restrictions in place. As an added bonus, they also create a new path forward for handling 2042 contracts if this business plan goes in the direction they anticipate. It really is their only play given the direction they chose to go with the Riviera resort so they are okay with disappointing a few former buyers to appease the next generation of buyers. I for one am not a direct member yet so but having 11 month booking window for all my points instead of spreading them around to get 11 month where I want for a day or two is much more appealing to me. I am still a little saddened that "pets friendly" is considered a "perk" and can be taken away at any time like annual passes but one closing cost for multiple 11 month priority bookings that use one pool of points? Yes please
Now we just need their official roadmap so we can see if this is how Disney plans on executing their trust based membership. Looking forward to new news from my DVC rep in the next month or two

Exactly. The devil is always in the details, but DVC is effectively creating the ultimate SAP's, if you buy directly.

 

[Sandisw]

Correct. We won’t know until their official plan is released but if we can then yes please.

We do know that CFW will trade within BVTC so all owners with direct points or resale points bought prior to 2019 can book them at the 7 month window.

It seems highly probable that any other property activated into the trust will have the same non owner booking privileges at the 7 month mark.

What we are waiting on is whether or not they will set up a reciprocal agreement between trust properties to all direct buyers of each resort use plan to have booking privileges at each others resort during home resort priority.

I think the first potential property would be Poly tower units. But, until another plan is created, it’s pretty much going to be status quo for booking the cabins.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

Exactly. The devil is always in the details, but DVC is effectively creating the ultimate SAP's, if you buy directly.

It really makes the most business sense to go this route or else you will never sell out those non WDW resorts like Aulani or VDC so you haven't actually solved anything other than potentially handling 2042 contracts (in 2024) by going with a trust based timeshare. As is the case with every post on here, it's all theoretical, until Disney publishes its official roadmap to the general public but if they do go this route, ultimate SAP is an understatement!

 

[pkrieger2287]

I'd just like to applaud this entire thread for making it an enjoyable read of facts, speculation, and pure comedy gold... I'm thoroughly enjoying my morning coffee DISboards browsing this morning. Happy Thursday!

 

[BeachClub2014]

It really makes the most business sense to go this route or else you will never sell out those non WDW resorts like Aulani or VDC so you haven't actually solved anything other than potentially handling 2042 contracts (in 2024) by going with a trust based timeshare. As is the case with every post on here, it's all theoretical, until Disney publishes its official roadmap to the general public but if they do go this route, ultimate SAP is an understatement!

Awww, come on now. You can take my oija board sessions with Walt, supported by the Magic-8 Ball, and confirmed by Madam Leota in my crystal ball as gospel. How could I possibly be wrong!?!

 

[Nabas]

Until we get some clarity from Disney anything can happen, but I think there are over 99% chances that at 7 months trust points will be able to exchange with existing deeded resorts.
Basically, I expect that the only difference is that Trust resorts will be able to exchange between them at 11 months, but at 7 months it's free for all for unrestricted points.
I also expect that any highly desirable room in a Trust resort will never be available at 7 months.

For example, currently, it's not impossible to book BWV a few months of the year. While BWV owners mostly book their resort, there are always a few owners who want to try other resorts. This causes a few points to trickle to 7 months.
But if (when) BWV joins the Trust in 2042, it'll immediately become a very highly desirable resort in all booking categories (unless they double the cost per night, which they will probably do). It's not just BWV owners, but tens/hundreds of thousands of Trust owners at other resorts that will be able to book BWV, this will leave nothing at 7 months.

Great point!

Let’s say that as some future date, BWV and SSR are in the same trust.

In this example, I strongly suspect that BWV will be fully booked before the 7-month window opens.

This means anyone outside of the trust has 0% chance of ever booking at BWV.

Considering how many points there are at SSR compared to BWV, even those inside the trust will find it difficult to book BWV.

 

[Matty B13]

Great point!

Let’s say that as some future date, BWV and SSR are in the same trust.

In this example, I strongly suspect that BWV will be fully booked before the 7-month window opens.

This means anyone outside of the trust has 0% chance of ever booking at BWV.

Considering how many points there are at SSR compared to BWV, even those inside the trust will find it difficult to book BWV.

Then they will start selling "Gold, Silver, & Platinum" level of memberships.........

 

[Genie+]

Because they are declared differently, would members who have both deeded and trust points have different membership accounts/numbers then also? How would that work for using points from both for a reservation?

For example, if they declare some of the unsold RIV into the trust and we added on to our deeded RIV points with new RIV based trust plan points, would we be able to use deeded and trust points together for a single consecutive 7 day reservation or would we need to make 2 separate reservations (example one 3 day and another 4 day) and hope we wouldn’t have to change rooms (assuming they were the same room size and view).

We are not planning to do this, and it seems complicated, I was just wondering if people had thoughts on how it would work if existing deeded members wanted to add on

Just a guess but I think if any of RIV/AUL/PTV/VDH get added to the Trust (that so far only consists of CFW), an owner of both legacy and trust points would be able to combine home resort booking - the same way an owner of both direct and resale points can book a combined home resort reservation today - as long as the points are coming from the same resort, UY and membership.

Even if some of those details end up slightly different in practice, I’d expect a current RIV owner who buys Trust points that include RIV to have the ability to make a combined home priority reservation there.

This brings up some questions-

Will Trust points have User Years?

Will Trust points work in the same membership as legacy points?

When Trust points hit the resale market, will there be any price difference depending what resort is assigned? If a direct buyer has to choose one of the Trust properties to attach their purchase, prices may vary.

 

[Bo1203]

In my state manufactured homes do face additional challenges to obtain financing and insurance. Owners must have affidavits of affixture, that show the home has been attached to a foundation and the hitch, wheels etc have been removed. Also, often owners of manufactured homes even when affixed to the land don’t actually own the land and pay lot rent. This disqualifies them from being considered real property and real estate agents don’t sell/lease them. Licensed dealers do.

I hope they don’t add any other resorts to the trust, just CFW. The more confusion they add the more dvc will be deemed as another predatory typical timeshare.

If the unsold RIV, DH, AUL units get added with reciprocal 11 month booking between them I’ll

 

[Jlo85]

Exactly. The devil is always in the details, but DVC is effectively creating the ultimate SAP's, if you buy directly.

I feel like the entire strategy of the trust is to sell DVC holistically instead of selling each resort. Selling each resort made sense when there were only a handful. But now they have a timeshare portfolio, and they can use the trust to sell Disney as a whole, which I think is more marketable. I personally think it makes a lot of sense for DVC to do a trust, though I still think the 'Palmetto' branding for the trust is weird.

 

[lowlight]

There is only one thing I know for sure about this trust, and that is that the developers will look out for their own best interest without any regard to the consumer. Assuming a trust isn’t some legal necessity because of CFW being manufactured homes, I don’t see any upsides to it for existing members and only one upside for future members with a whole bunch of downsides. Why is this being spun as something good/neutral for owners?

 

[Genie+]

I personally think it makes a lot of sense for DVC to do a trust, though I still think the 'Palmetto' branding for the trust is weird.

Palmetto Trust

 

[Jlo85]

Great point!

Let’s say that as some future date, BWV and SSR are in the same trust.

In this example, I strongly suspect that BWV will be fully booked before the 7-month window opens.

This means anyone outside of the trust has 0% chance of ever booking at BWV.

Considering how many points there are at SSR compared to BWV, even those inside the trust will find it difficult to book BWV.

The only caveat to this is that BWV is going to cost A LOT more points once it expires and is (hypothetically) rolled into the trust. They're not going to keep those 2042 points charts...

 

[Sandisw]

There is only one thing I know for sure about this trust, and that is that the developers will look out for their own best interest without any regard to the consumer. Assuming a trust isn’t some legal necessity because of CFW being manufactured homes, I don’t see any upsides to it for existing members and only one upside for future members with a whole bunch of downsides. Why is this being spun as something good/neutral for owners?

Because it could be if the units activated into the trust are different inventory than what has already been declared into current resorts…and I am pretty confident that they can’t activate units already declared into other associations

So, what is that different? You’ll buy a RTU plan instead of a deeded ownership.

You’ll have home resort booking privileges to the resort your contract is attached to. You might even get reciprocal privileges to other trust property during a home resort period.

At 7 months, you get to trade into all other resorts, including those part of the trust property via BVTC

When you sell, the contract will be restricted to the units in that RTU vacation plan.

At this point, it doesn’t seem to be a downside at all for owning via a trust.

For current owners, it potentially changes how easy or hard it will be to trade into the new trust owned property.

For a resale owner, it’s no change because they won’t be trading into them anyway.

Now, when they begin to add more, it could have drawbacks not yet known, but pretty much, it seems in practice it will function pretry much the same for current owners.

 

[PrincessKL]

There is only one thing I know for sure about this trust, and that is that the developers will look out for their own best interest without any regard to the consumer. Assuming a trust isn’t some legal necessity because of CFW being manufactured homes, I don’t see any upsides to it for existing members and only one upside for future members with a whole bunch of downsides. Why is this being spun as something good/neutral for owners?

The trust would actually be a product attracting to me. I like to try different resorts at WDW (we do split stays all the time) and I like to go to Disneyland and Hawaii once every several years to experience it. So instead of looking for availability and trying to book at 7-month to plan for vacations, now I will potentially have 11-month booking advantage at multiple resorts. I am also cheap so we book standard studios all the time, with the trust, there will be budget options like CFW and possible more standard studios available at multiple resorts at 11-month for me to book.

 

[RichVIII]

The trust would actually be a product attracting to me. I like to try different resorts at WDW (we do split stays all the time) and I like to go to Disneyland and Hawaii once every several years to experience it. So instead of looking for availability and trying to book at 7-month to plan for vacations, now I will potentially have 11-month booking advantage at multiple resorts. I am also cheap so we book standard studios all the time, with the trust, there will be budget options like CFW and possible more standard studios available at multiple resorts at 11-month for me to book.

My head is spinning from reading this thread and this message has me thinking. It does sound appealing and great marketing for DVC. Sales people have always said - Vacation at all the resorts! But only other than yours at 7 months if you can get in and if your points aren't restricted. So they will say the same - but now, you don't have to wait till 7 months. You can book all these resorts and not have to wait! BUT...isn't the mechanics (or devils in the details) since the same demand for many of the resorts will still outstrip the supply? Let's pretend CCV is in the trust - doesn't everyone want those studios at the holidays? It sounds good, and I do see some upsides, but it still doesn't solve (in the end, to most buyers) the demand for popular places - it actually increases pressure for them.

 

[maui22]

Not sure if I am phrasing this very well. Hopefully someone understands what I am asking...

If the trust has home resort booking privileges across all trust properties, will the dues be the same for all trust owners?
Example, in 2042 Disney could roll VB and HH into the trust. Insurance rates from a couple storms made dues rise rapidly for those resorts. Might the trust owners face a painful surprise in the future with new properties added?

When someone sells CFW, it loses the home resort booking window to other properties, so it should be paying dues strictly based on it's home resort. In theory, the dues someone pays could change a fair amount (possibly up or down) when the contract changes hands.

Anyone know how other timeshares have handled similar transitions to trusts and what happens if the trust adds an expensive dues resort?

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Just a guess but I think if any of RIV/AUL/PTV/VDH get added to the Trust (that so far only consists of CFW), an owner of both legacy and trust points would be able to combine home resort booking

If this happens, I would pretty much definitely buy in. As a current RIV and Poly owner this would be pretty amazing actually-being able to bulk up one or both at 11mo? And also have access to whatever new resort joins the trust at 11mo? Yeah I’d buy in- SAP++++

 

[AwfulWaffle]

My head is spinning from reading this thread and this message has me thinking. It does sound appealing and great marketing for DVC. Sales people have always said - Vacation at all the resorts! But only other than yours at 7 months if you can get in and if your points aren't restricted. So they will say the same - but now, you don't have to wait till 7 months. You can book all these resorts and not have to wait! BUT...isn't the mechanics (or devils in the details) since the same demand for many of the resorts will still outstrip the supply? Let's pretend CCV is in the trust - doesn't everyone want those studios at the holidays? It sounds good, and I do see some upsides, but it still doesn't solve (in the end, to most buyers) the demand for popular places - it actually increases pressure for them.

If Disney goes this route, the trust will still be limited to how many points the trust has in it. In the case of CCV, this is a sold out resort so they can only add what they get through natural saturation (foreclosure, rofr, ect…). They can’t book more points then they own so once those points are gone then they are gone then that resort just becomes a not available option in the search criteria that you can wait list. The real benefit are for unsold resorts because there are a lot more points available at those resorts that they can buy into the trust. Either way, it will be interesting to see where Disney goes with the trust. Just throwing this out there an a viable option as well, what if the intent is to be an all moderate resort trust? Now they have a path forward for a cheaper dvc option for the moderate/value consumer. Lots of routes they can go don’t will be interesting when an official plan is released.

 

[Royal Consort]

Do we even know if Disney is planning to offer 11 month booking at multiple resorts under the trust? We may be jumping the gun. Disney may stick to their current system to keep it simple as there seems to be a resort and master trust.