Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[Genie+]

We are seeing even in the deeded system, people are complaining in another thread about how it is tough to get in at peak times to their resorts - even at points heavy resorts like VGF (which is the resort most similar to Poly in my view).

If the Trust has booking issues at its MK resorts it could drive up resale prices at the legacy alternatives.

And VGF really isn’t hard to book. Nothing like BWV.

The trouble at VGF is mostly limited to early May and early Dec - likely due to the combo of lower points and pleasant weather. Both are lower than average point use; both are at the cusp before it gets either too hot or too chilly. Sept and Jan are the lowest points but not a good trade off since highest risk for Orlando weather extremes.

Right now VGF is mostly open for Oct/Nov and BWV is mostly booked. Add to that VGF‘s low dues make it great for trading out, along with motivation to stretch those points and at a lower cost resort. So I think waitlists have a better shot at VGF than BWV too.

Curiously CFW doc wording (Opening Priority Period) suggests the ability to lock out other Trust properties when new properties are introduced. Or is that what they’re calling the home resort specific priority window? Like if there are 3 windows - Home, Trust, then BVTC.

 

[Brian Noble]

Wait, does this mean people buying CFW will have access to both Poly Tower and Poly Longhouses and Bungalows at 11-month if Poly Tower is in the trust?

The answer right now is no. And until it happens, it hasn't happened.

This is really just my general take on all things timeshare: assume nothing beyond what you get on the day you sign, and that you will only have things that are contractually guaranteed. Assume any other "subject to change at any time" things will be taken away the instant the ink on your contract is dry.

The days of sitting at dinner or the pool w older members telling you it was the best investment of their lives are quickly coming to an end.

I don't think that's true at all. Someone buying from the developer has pretty much the same value proposition they have always had. They've paid up front for the ability to vacation regularly at a collection of very nice resorts in good to great locations for only the ongoing operating and maintenance costs.

Most of the stuff we obsess about here in the DISboards corner of DVCland is in the noise for the average owner.

 

[Den8uml]

Simple answer: nobody really knows for certain. It's a great discussion topic, but until we see anything more from DVC, it's all conjecture. What we do know is that CFW is being sold from the new Trust, and seemingly has the same reservation conditions, along with resale restrictions ala RIV and VDH, as every other resort.

Obviously none of us know but if the Poly tower has some or all inventory in the trust, wouldn’t the trust home booking window only be able to get that inventory and not inventory in the longhouses that is not in the trust?
I’m personally hoping that the Poly tower goes on sale under normal conditions and in the existing association like VGF’s new expansion and sells out quickly while avoiding the trust and restrictions all together.

 

[Mikey15]

Obviously none of us know but if the Poly tower has some or all inventory in the trust, wouldn’t the trust home booking window only be able to get that inventory and not inventory in the longhouses that is not in the trust?
I’m personally hoping that the Poly tower goes on sale under normal conditions and in the existing association like VGF’s new expansion and sells out quickly while avoiding the trust and restrictions all together.

*We don’t really know yet / speculation*

If Poly tower is same association as longhouses
AND
X tower points are declared into that association
AND
X tower points are owned by the trust
THEN
Trust owners would be able to book rooms at Poly, be they at tower or longhouse, up to X points.

That’s at least how I’m interpreting what’s been discussed. I don’t know how exactly they’d limit the availability in the electronic booking system, but “the Trust” shouldn’t be able to book rooms worth more points than it owns in that use year, just like how an individual owner can’t book a room without sufficient (incl banked/borrowed) points in that use year.

 

[Hubalorian]

The days of sitting at dinner or the pool w older members telling you it was the best investment of their lives are quickly coming to an end.

Disney is really working to erode the value of DVC. Likely to make up for all the money the rest of the company is losing.

You mean with how Disney is losing money on streaming? Their movies have had hit and stinkers over the years, that is not overwhelmingly surprising. However, they are in a tough spot mainly because of how aggressively they entered the streaming market and buying out hulu.

 

[mamaofsix]

Well, to give us something OTHER than the Trust to talk about, the layouts for the cabins have been released:

 

[DaveNan]

Well, to give us something OTHER than the Trust to talk about, the layouts for the cabins have been released:

View attachment 823285

As many have speculated. I see a water heater in the cabin, but no washer/dryer. Supports the point charts being closer to a studio than a 1 BR at most resorts.

 

[Mle8308]

Well, to give us something OTHER than the Trust to talk about, the layouts for the cabins have been released:

View attachment 823285

This was posted a few days ago either earlier on this thread or on one of the others. I did not think it was a confirmed floor plan, just one of the designs. Partly because this shows a full stove, not the one DVC said the cabins would have.

 

[mamaofsix]

As many have speculated. I see a water heater in the cabin, but no washer/dryer. Supports the point charts being closer to a studio than a 1 BR at most resorts.

I'm surprised by the utter lack of any sort of closets - other than for the water heater. Hopefully there will be free-standing wardrobes for hanging clothes, etc.

 

[mamaofsix]

This was posted a few days ago either earlier on this thread or on one of the others. I did not think it was a confirmed floor plan, just one of the designs. Partly because this shows a full stove, not the one DVC said the cabins would have.

It was just posted this afternoon to a few of the Disney news sites, so seems legit. I had not seen it on this thread yet, sorry if it was redundant.

 

[kneely58]

This was posted a few days ago either earlier on this thread or on one of the others. I did not think it was a confirmed floor plan, just one of the designs. Partly because this shows a full stove, not the one DVC said the cabins would have.

To be clear, it is in the Declaration that Disney filed with Orange County (see page 47 of the attached), so it is as confirmed as you can get.

 

[Sandisw]

Just to be clear, Poly2 could still be the same association BUT sold direct via the Trust WITH Resale Restrictions on Trust points, correct? That's where I think this may be going... which is an interesting turn of events.

That is how I interpret the clause I found in the PVB POS. Here is what it says.

 

[Sandisw]

yes I get that. But OG Poly contract holders would still get access to the new tower as well.

Another advantage could be it allows them to reallocate the bungalows.

If I were a poly owner I’d have no interest in buying a product that lumped me in with the cabins at fort wilderness though. I would be buying to purchase priority at one of disneys most iconic properties, not to sleep in a trailer. I’d imagine many buyers would go resale at that point.

The question I have is would they? Do they have to have the same 11 month window if it is a different vacation ownership plan?

Peoole keep mentioning the bungalows but DVC doesn’t need to reallocate those points. They book up eventually and those that don’t, get rented in some way.

 

[Sandisw]

As an original Poly 1 owner (but resale after 1/2019) I was wondering about this exactly. How would this affect poly 1 owners? Would the reciprocal be true and Poly 1 have tower access at 11 months?

ETA I see some have speculated that the answer would be yes.

Honestly, I don’t know what the rules would be for booking. If they can add the Poly tower rooms to the assocation, but have a different vacation ownership plan for it, I think that means they can give it different rules for booking.

Meaning those who own PVB currently could very well not be treated the same way when it comes to booking.

 

[kneely58]

The question I have is would they? Do they have to have the same 11 month window if it is a different vacation ownership plan?

Peoole keep mentioning the bungalows but DVC doesn’t need to reallocate those points. They book up eventually and those that don’t, get rented in some way.

One point about the potential bungalow reallocation. Disney specifically added language in Section 3.3 of the CFW Membership Agreement and Section 5.2 of the Resort Agreement that the "reallocation may be made across all or any Vacation Home types." This language was not included in those agreements for prior resorts, which suggests that they believe they do not have the right to do that for existing resorts.

 

[Brian Noble]

That's odd, because it's exactly what they did in the SSR treehouse rebalance.

 

[Sandisw]

One point about the potential bungalow reallocation. Disney specifically added language in Section 3.3 of the CFW Membership Agreement and Section 5.2 of the Resort Agreement that the "reallocation may be made across all or any Vacation Home types." This language was not included in those agreements for prior resorts, which suggests that they believe they do not have the right to do that for existing resorts.

I was going to add that but wanted to find it first but I do think you are correct in that this languafe was needed.

Not sure they can’t do it already, but it is definitely not as clear as this in current POS documents.

 

[Cfabar1]

The question I have is would they? Do they have to have the same 11 month window if it is a different vacation ownership plan?

Peoole keep mentioning the bungalows but DVC doesn’t need to reallocate those points. They book up eventually and those that don’t, get rented in some way.

I don't see how you can have owners within the same association not be able to book any room that is governed and within the association.

This would be no different in my mind than owners at VGF or BWV having rooms in the trust, and the confusion that there has been there.

Now, if they don't declare Poly2 into the existing association, that would be different, but Yvonne Chang came down from the mountain with the tablets and declared it so.....

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Those with the most to lose would be original Polynesian owners, who I see no upside with any of these changes, with the exception that, if they put the new units in the new association, they can book the tower.

But, that may prove moot because these cabins people will gobble up the rooms.

As long as the cabin people are gobbling up just the rooms and not the Poly owners...

 

[Sandisw]

I don't see how you can have owners within the same association not be able to book any room that is governed and within the association.

This would be no different in my mind than owners at VGF or BWV having rooms in the trust, and the confusion that there has been there.

Now, if they don't declare Poly2 into the existing association, that would be different, but Yvonne Chang came down from the mountain with the tablets and declared it so.....

Because the PVB POS…and I assume all others…has the clause…which I posted above…thst gives DVD the right to do that. They can add new phases and units to any assocation under a different vacation ownership plan. The current vacation ownership plan for PVB is to sell it as a deeded interest…and that is what helps determine the whole home resort aspect.

If it’s a different plan, like a RTU plan in a trust, then I do think they can set up any rules for those units.

And, yes, Chang said “the plan right now is to add to PVB”. The clause I found would allow that statement to be correct, and still end up in the trust, under a new vacation plan

Plus, I have not gotten DVC, after three emails to confirm it. They have said we can not answer your questions or we have nothing we can say regarding the status of that project,