Frustrated and sad

[Disney Doll]

Sounds liek you know your stuff with regard to how to help your child. That school system better watch out!

Meanwhile, hang in there! You know you are doing the right thing advocating for your child.

The school system is playing a game of "chicken"...well, call their bluff and call the lawyer. You may very well hear their tune change!

 

[agnes!]

OP, I forgot to give you your .

agnes!

 

[Carly_Roach]

Other side of the coin/unpopular opinion coming up.

This has been a struggle for the past 5 years. The SLP has been trying to dismiss DS from speech for 4 years.

I know I have the documentation to take them to court. They know I have it too. But...rather than working with me to give Ds what he needs their playing a game of chicken to see who calls the lawyers first.

I know we can get the help for DS privately. I also know we can EVENTUALLY force the school to pay. However, that could take years. Now I have to find a way to find an additional $2,500 in our monthly budget without having us go into crushing debt. Anyone have a money tree out there?

It sounds like your money tree (the school's budget) is finally going barren. If it costs $2,500 a month for speech classes for your son, that's an average of $22,500 per year for one student. Just for speech! That doesn't include anything else they might need to teach him. So I can understand why they've been fighting you for all these years for these expensive lessons for only one student, only one class. Each time they agree to take him on, then have to take away over $10,000 from the other students.

The average budget for a NY pupil is $15,546. According to http://publications.budget.state.ny.us/eBudget1011/fy1011littlebook/Education.html the budget is going to have to be slashed for the first time in years.

Although the economic downturn began more than two years ago, New York has, thus far, been able to avoid year-to-year cuts to education. At the same time, other states facing budgetary pressures similar to New York have been forced to take major current-year actions affecting schools:

•20,000 teachers were laid off in California;
•Michigan has implemented an across-the-board per pupil funding cut;
•Illinois has made cuts to its prekindergarten and after-school programs;
•New Mexico implemented a plan that would cut take-home pay of public school teachers by 1.5 percent;
•Mississippi cut its Adequate Education Program; and
•Utah and Hawaii have shortened their school years.

Now, however, with education funding representing over 34 percent of State Operating Funds spending and the State continuing to face massive budget gaps, reductions in overall School Aid support are required. The 2010-11 Executive Budget therefore recommends a year-to-year reduction in School Aid of $1.1 billion or five percent. As education funding in New York is a combination of local and State support, the proposed reduction represents two percent of school districts’ total general fund expenditures statewide.

Go ahead and get your lawyer, but be aware that the money you spend trying to wring more money out of the school is money being taken away from every kid, including yours, as the school has to fight your lawsuit.

My student's two sisters had a court battle over their needs while in middle and elementary school. It got pretty nasty, but they won because the school outright refused to accomodate their needs.

It's possible to fight that fight, but it was very trying on the family. Eventually they moved to a different school system (the one they are currently in) and it's been a whole new ball game for the better.

Best of luck finding your resolution.

This situation seems to be different. In this situation, the school has tried to accommodate the parents. It appears to now come down to one person's word over another about whether or not the child is as developmentally delayed as the parents are making him out to be.

But the thing is, the child is entitled by law to a Free and Appropriate Education. It's his right.

Also, if you can get the school on board, there often are teachers who are really splendid at dealing with the reading and writing issues the child has. I can be very difficult for a parent to do this...that's why special ed teachers get so much training!

Sometimes, things are worth the fight. And sometimes, you just have to say you are ready to fight. Just the mere mention of our lawyer's name (she's well-known in the state) made our team take us seriously and give us want we needed.

You lost me at "Appropriate". It is not in the public's best interest for a public school to go into debt or to take funds away from another pupil in order to serve one family's child. A child whom the school has said multiple times that they don't see the disability that the parents are insisting is there. In these days of budget shortfalls and school funding cuts, the needs of the many MUST outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

I apologize to the OP, but it would seem that your best answer is to take your child to a private school. The current public one is looking out the best interest of all their pupils. It seems unlikely that they're willing to take the loss of finances that one boy requires for speech classes.

Yes, you can sue. Of course you can sue. But, in the meantime, all that money and effort to prove you're right and the school is wrong will do absolutely nothing toward the education of your son. And even if you won your lawsuit, do you really think the school is going to give their 100% best toward seeing that your son flourishes? I don't think so. And you'll be facing this kind of uphill he said/she said/I'm suing you battle for the next 10 years.

There are those who say that the fight is worth it, and that it's a noble cause to "fight" for the rights of your child. But I would answer that there are also the 100's of parents out there whose children are being short-changed because of these "fight for our child" parents who want more than their share of the public pie who are just as willing to "fight for our child", too. The school must balance those parents against the one.

IMO, in this day of Recession and Depression, if your child requires more than the school can afford to give to educate your child, then it's up to you to provide the funding for that "more" your child needs, not take the funding away from other children who are just as deserving of a free education.

 

[jodifla]

Except for it won't cost nearly the same amount for the school to provide services.

IMO, the OP isn't asking for much. She'd like a COMPETENT speech therapist, and learning programs tailored to her son's needs. This is standard IEP stuff, and it's NOT that expensive to implement in a school setting.

Our entire school curriculum is geared toward differentiated learning styles.

 

[DizBelle]

Except for it won't cost nearly the same amount for the school to provide services.

IMO, the OP isn't asking for much. She'd like a COMPETENT speech therapist, and learning programs tailored to her son's needs. This is standard IEP stuff, and it's NOT that expensive to implement in a school setting.

Our entire school curriculum is geared toward differentiated learning styles.

So, a person working and providing services for a school will charge less than if they were working and providing those services privately? I don't see how that would happen.

A speech therapist costs how much a speech therapist costs regardless of the location (school vs. privately).

 

[m&m's mom]

My daughter has an IEP with no accommodations so I am not sure I am the most knowledgeable but....... I am wondering about the "competent Speech Pathologist" part of the issue. This seems a very slippery slope to prove. They did provide the service but not to your satisfaction. I could say that about my other DD's first grade teacher. She was just awful but what she introduced at school, we taught at home.
I would read up on everything I could about your sons issue and try to make up as much at home.
I also agree the sue part is bad for everyone involved.

 

[jodifla]

So, a person working and providing services for a school will charge less than if they were working and providing those services privately? I don't see how that would happen.

A speech therapist costs how much a speech therapist costs regardless of the location (school vs. privately).

Private speech therapists cost about $130 an hour. School speech therapists -- ours are mostly full time on staff -- are not making that much, so yes, it's MUCH cheaper for everyone involved through the schools.

 

[jodifla]

My daughter has an IEP with no accommodations so I am not sure I am the most knowledgeable but....... I am wondering about the "competent Speech Pathologist" part of the issue. This seems a very slippery slope to prove. They did provide the service but not to your satisfaction. I could say that about my other DD's first grade teacher. She was just awful but what she introduced at school, we taught at home.
I would read up on everything I could about your sons issue and try to make up as much at home.
I also agree the sue part is bad for everyone involved.

If there are awful school therapists or teachers, it's your responsibility as a stakeholder in the school to let the administration know. They won't act after one response, but after dozens they are sure likely to.

And why would anybody want kids down the line to get a subpar teacher?

 

[DizBelle]

Other side of the coin/unpopular opinion coming up.
It sounds like your money tree (the school's budget) is finally going barren. If it costs $2,500 a month for speech classes for your son, that's an average of $22,500 per year for one student. Just for speech! That doesn't include anything else they might need to teach him. So I can understand why they've been fighting you for all these years for these expensive lessons for only one student, only one class. Each time they agree to take him on, then have to take away over $10,000 from the other students.

The average budget for a NY pupil is $15,546. According to http://publications.budget.state.ny.us/eBudget1011/fy1011littlebook/Education.html the budget is going to have to be slashed for the first time in years.



Go ahead and get your lawyer, but be aware that the money you spend trying to wring more money out of the school is money being taken away from every kid, including yours, as the school has to fight your lawsuit.


This situation seems to be different. In this situation, the school has tried to accommodate the parents. It appears to now come down to one person's word over another about whether or not the child is as developmentally delayed as the parents are making him out to be.

You lost me at "Appropriate". It is not in the public's best interest for a public school to go into debt or to take funds away from another pupil in order to serve one family's child. A child whom the school has said multiple times that they don't see the disability that the parents are insisting is there. In these days of budget shortfalls and school funding cuts, the needs of the many MUST outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

I apologize to the OP, but it would seem that your best answer is to take your child to a private school. The current public one is looking out the best interest of all their pupils. It seems unlikely that they're willing to take the loss of finances that one boy requires for speech classes.

Yes, you can sue. Of course you can sue. But, in the meantime, all that money and effort to prove you're right and the school is wrong will do absolutely nothing toward the education of your son. And even if you won your lawsuit, do you really think the school is going to give their 100% best toward seeing that your son flourishes? I don't think so. And you'll be facing this kind of uphill he said/she said/I'm suing you battle for the next 10 years.

There are those who say that the fight is worth it, and that it's a noble cause to "fight" for the rights of your child. But I would answer that there are also the 100's of parents out there whose children are being short-changed because of these "fight for our child" parents who want more than their share of the public pie who are just as willing to "fight for our child", too. The school must balance those parents against the one.

IMO, in this day of Recession and Depression, if your child requires more than the school can afford to give to educate your child, then it's up to you to provide the funding for that "more" your child needs, not take the funding away from other children who are just as deserving of a free education.

I hope everyone realizes that public education is not "free". Everyone pays a lot of money to provide that education.

 

[Pembo]

I feel your pain...find yourself a good lawyer, call the state and do what you need to do for your son as well as for all other kids like him that come after you.

We had a nasty fight with our district a few years back...luckily it didn't go as bad as you are describing.

Fight and know that we support you.

 

[jodifla]

I hope everyone realizes that public education is not "free". Everyone pays a lot of money to provide that education.

Yes, the taxes I've paid all my life go to support that education.

Education is for ALL children, not just the "many."

 

[DizBelle]

Yes, the taxes I've paid all my life go to support that education.

Education is for ALL children, not just the "many."

Agreed. But there is no way the public can provide for ALL of the needs of ALL children. There are just not enough funds for that. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Public education should provide the best bang for the buck (so to speak). That is what is best for society as a whole.

 

[castleview]

If there are awful school therapists or teachers, it's your responsibility as a stakeholder in the school to let the administration know. They won't act after one response, but after dozens they are sure likely to.

And why would anybody want kids down the line to get a subpar teacher?

Because that may be subjective. People complained about DD's first grade teacher who I thought was fantastic. Fortunately, the principal agreed she was a great teacher. If the OP's principal and board of ed (elected by the stakeholders) have decided this a good teacher, what can you do?

My DD had a great teacher last year, but she still wasn't where I wanted her in math. So I sucked it up and paid for some tutoring.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Yes, the taxes I've paid all my life go to support that education.

Education is for ALL children, not just the "many."

I've paid all my life to support that education, too. DH and I will never have children who will benefit from those taxes we've paid, but we still pay them because that's what living in America is all about: the money goes into a common pot for the benefit of the public.

HOWEVER, if there is one or two families who are insisting that their child's needs warrant excessively more of the public pot than all the other children, then I (as a taxpayer) will take issue with that. IMO it is unfair for two or three or 10 children to go without so that one child can 'have it all'. These are hard times and tax revenues are down. As another poster said, we need to get as much bang for our buck as possible. That's just good financial thinking.

 

[castleview]

I am so stressed, angry and just sad. I've tried to work with the school district on my DS's needs. I know my rights. I know they're wrong. I know that now we need to hire a lawyer and I'm 99% sure we'll win after a major battle.

They refuse to compromise on even the simplest accommodations/modifications. They've failed to provide an appropriate education for DS.

I know we can pay for it ourselves and eventually....a long time from now...get reimbursed. I know we will do that because DS's educational and emotional needs are more important than anything else. However the minimum we can expect to spend for the very specialized private tutoring he'll need will be in excess of $24,000 a year (this is actually the cheap option...a private school that specialized in his learning disability would be over $40,000 a year). None of it would be necessary if they would have just followed the advice of the evaluation from four years ago and would now follow the advice of the current evaluation.

I don't know what the point of this thread is. Maybe it's my version of a primal scream. Maybe I want to know if anyone else has felt this way. thanks for listening anyway.

What does this mean? Was he evaluated and they think he can handle more? If it was done so they can save money, I get your anger. But isn't the goal of IEPs, modifications, and evaluations to get your child to a point where he won't need as many modifications?"

 

[Mermaid02]

What does this mean? Was he evaluated and they think he can handle more? If it was done so they can save money, I get your anger. But isn't the goal of IEPs, modifications, and evaluations to get your child to a point where he won't need as many modifications?"

It usually is about the money.

 

[jodifla]

Again, when you look at OP's case, she's not asking for that much. She is actually asking them to follow the law and do their job.

Schools are institutions that get mired in the way they've always done things. Sometimes you have to point out that they are NOT doing the things they are supposed to be doing. Sometimes that takes lawyers, or lawsuits.

In our case, we were told something we KNEW was not true in regards to labels and level of services. So we told them, you know what, that's not the law. And they went back and checked and returned to tell us that we were right, they were wrong. And yet they'd been operating incorrectly for years, and all the parents just took what they said as gospel. Luckily it didn't take a lawsuit to prove it.

It doesn't surprise me that OP's school doesn't understand MERLD. What is disappointing is that aren't interested in trying to LEARN anything about it. And other children down the road will suffer because they CHOOSE to be ignorant.

 

[simpilotswife]

I've paid all my life to support that education, too. DH and I will never have children who will benefit from those taxes we've paid, but we still pay them because that's what living in America is all about: the money goes into a common pot for the benefit of the public.

HOWEVER, if there is one or two families who are insisting that their child's needs warrant excessively more of the public pot than all the other children, then I (as a taxpayer) will take issue with that. IMO it is unfair for two or three or 10 children to go without so that one child can 'have it all'. These are hard times and tax revenues are down. As another poster said, we need to get as much bang for our buck as possible. That's just good financial thinking.

If school districts would implement RTI (Response To Intervention) children would get the services they need in a timely manner so that excessive resources would not be required. Many times school districts do not give children what they need at an early age which results in greater costs to the taxpayer later.

 

[horseshowmom]

And most importantly, we went to Vanderbilt to specialists who know and understand MERLD. We go annually for updates and testing, and come away with a detailed game plan each year for the school to follow. The school really doubted the Dx at first, now they can see how it is his language disorder is affecting everything. Everything they told us at Vanderbilt 5 years ago is unfolding just as they said it would.

Coincidentally, we also found specialists at Vanderbilt who were able to help our daughter with a physical condition she has. They very possibly saved her life. I've been very impressed with them (even though we don't live nearby).

Other side of the coin/unpopular opinion coming up. Go ahead and get your lawyer, but be aware that the money you spend trying to wring more money out of the school is money being taken away from every kid, including yours, as the school has to fight your lawsuit.

While I work for a school system and completely understand the concept of finances, sometimes a school district has to be pushed into doing what's right. The school district is just as responsible as the OP for pushing this into a lawsuit IMHO.

You lost me at "Appropriate". It is not in the public's best interest for a public school to go into debt or to take funds away from another pupil in order to serve one family's child. A child whom the school has said multiple times that they don't see the disability that the parents are insisting is there. In these days of budget shortfalls and school funding cuts, the needs of the many MUST outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

She's only asking for an extra 30 minutes a week and for the time they are spending to actually benefit her child. Classroom teachers are expected to vary their teaching methods to reach children, and it's not unreasonable to expect the speech therapist to use methods that are recommended by specialists.

I apologize to the OP, but it would seem that your best answer is to take your child to a private school. The current public one is looking out the best interest of all their pupils. It seems unlikely that they're willing to take the loss of finances that one boy requires for speech classes.

Again, she's only asking for an additional 30 minutes per week. We have speech therapists on staff at our schools. They are paid on a teacher salary scale (not what they would make in a private setting). In our case, all that would be required would be that the student would be seen that extra 30 minutes. There would be NO additional cost involved.

Yes, you can sue. Of course you can sue. But, in the meantime, all that money and effort to prove you're right and the school is wrong will do absolutely nothing toward the education of your son. And even if you won your lawsuit, do you really think the school is going to give their 100% best toward seeing that your son flourishes? I don't think so. And you'll be facing this kind of uphill he said/she said/I'm suing you battle for the next 10 years.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. If she wins, the school district will be put on notice that they MUST provide the services. Most school districts that I know of don't want to take the chance of making things worse after they've lost a lawsuit. Of course, this may vary from state to state.

There are those who say that the fight is worth it, and that it's a noble cause to "fight" for the rights of your child. But I would answer that there are also the 100's of parents out there whose children are being short-changed because of these "fight for our child" parents who want more than their share of the public pie who are just as willing to "fight for our child", too. The school must balance those parents against the one.

Again, as I said earlier, there would be no increase in cost in our district. The currently employed ST would just pick that student up another 30 minutes.

So, a person working and providing services for a school will charge less than if they were working and providing those services privately? I don't see how that would happen.

A speech therapist costs how much a speech therapist costs regardless of the location (school vs. privately).

Private speech therapists cost about $130 an hour. School speech therapists -- ours are mostly full time on staff -- are not making that much, so yes, it's MUCH cheaper for everyone involved through the schools.

As I said earlier, our speech therapists are employed according to the teacher salary schedule (nowhere near what private speech therapists make) and there would be no additional costs.

 

[kirstenb1]

I know a couple of families who have fought this fight. The first won, and their daughter goes to an expensive private school exclusively for kids with moderate to severe autism.

The second family has a son with speech apraxia. They haven't been as fortunate in getting him services. They pay thousands of dollars every year for private speech therapy, in addition to what he gets at school. They are moving to get into a better district.

We're just starting down the path with our 5 yr old who was dx'd with mild autism a few years ago. She's currently in special ed preschool, yet we're also paying out of pocket for OT and PT. I'm starting to believe we're looking at years of supplementing her public school education with private therapy.

OP, my heart goes out to you. PLease disregard the posters who seem to be suggesting that education is only for kids who aren't costing the system too much money. Keep up the good fight!!