Frozen ride in Epcot

[rteetz]

We know at points they were thinking about porting Tokyo Disney Sea Attractions; (not that they would be much better) that and Everest show other options could've been taken. Instead they took an IP that has no place in DAK and shoehorned it in.

What scares me is Epcot is a totally lost cause. Totally ruined and unfocused. Don't tell some people that, but it's the truth.

DAK is our generation's Epcot. It thankfully has a creative lead who will monitor and keep it on track to a limit. If an executive wants something in, it's going in.

Where does it end? What if they want a Good Dinosaur Land? What if they want to overhaul Kilimanjaro into a Lion King tie in? What if Everest becomes a Monster's Inc. attraction?

Sound ridiculous? Yeah. I'm sure it does. I wonder what a 1980s guests would've thought if they found out the Living Seas would be inhabited by a talking Clown Fish and his friends. I wonder what a 1980s guests would think if they heard that Journey into Imagination would relaunch later as a worse attraction. I wonder what a guest to Norway would've thought if they heard a strangely intelligent Reindeer and a talking Snowman would replace the anchor attraction.

Ridiculous right?

Well that's reality now. I appreciate DAK. I'm going to call out additions that don't fit and even the creater was unhappy working with according to Articos on WDWmagic.

That's not to say I'm not excited for the visually stunning and beautiful World of Pandora. Just like I don't feel less excited about a trip to Splash Mountain.

I will lament that they went this direction. Just like I wish Splash Mountain was somewhere better.

Well personally I disagree with your opinion on avatar fitting in AK because I think it does so we'll just have to to disagree there.

I do agree that Epcot is a lost cause and is falling fast from where it was. However today's gran fiesta tour upgrade does show that they do still do some good things there.

I could see good dinosaur going into dinoland and I don't have a problem with that because that land isn't that great. Now I can't see them shoehorning lion king into the safaris, that is an incredibly popular attraction. The same goes for Everest. Rohde would throw a fit.

Imagination is definitely a lost cause. I can't say anything for the seas as I don't know much about what that attraction was like before it got nemo.

To me avatar fits in AK because of its stunning visuals. AK is stunning with its details and so is avatar. DHS is more of a we don't have anywhere else to put it so let's put it here park.

 

[Planogirl]

Well personally I disagree with your opinion on avatar fitting in AK because I think it does so we'll just have to to disagree there.

I do agree that Epcot is a lost cause and is falling fast from where it was. However today's gran fiesta tour upgrade does show that they do still do some good things there.

I could see good dinosaur going into dinoland and I don't have a problem with that because that land isn't that great. Now I can't see them shoehorning lion king into the safaris, that is an incredibly popular attraction. The same goes for Everest. Rohde would throw a fit.

Imagination is definitely a lost cause. I can't say anything for the seas as I don't know much about what that attraction was like before it got nemo.

To me avatar fits in AK because of its stunning visuals. AK is stunning with its details and so is avatar. DHS is more of a we don't have anywhere else to put it so let's put it here park.

There was always a land planned with fantasy animals at AK and Avatar is just that land now. I would have preferred dragons such as shown on the logo but I understand why they went with Avatar.

I don't think that Imagination is a complete lost cause. There are two amazing characters associated with this ride and if Disney would just use some..ahem...imagination, I believe that they could bring this ride back.

 

[rteetz]

There was always a land planned with fantasy animals at AK and Avatar is just that land now. I would have preferred dragons such as shown on the logo but I understand why they went with Avatar.

I don't think that Imagination is a complete lost cause. There are two amazing characters associated with this ride and if Disney would just use some..ahem...imagination, I believe that they could bring this ride back.

Imagineers have the imagination to bring imagination pavilion back to life it's just the Disney execs not wanting to put forth the money.

 

[Planogirl]

Imagineers have the imagination to bring imagination pavilion back to life it's just the Disney execs not wanting to put forth the money.

It's hard to know whether the imagineers can still do it like they used to since like you said they aren't allowed to. Many have moved on too. It's so strange.

 

[rteetz]

It's hard to know whether the imagineers can still do it like they used to since like you said they aren't allowed to. Many have moved on too. It's so strange.

Well many are able to do what they want in places like say tokyo when they get the chance. Shanghai is also showcasing some of that creativity. Disney execs just worry about original ideas not lasting without an IP tie in.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm from the UK have lived in the US for the last 15 years and regularly vacationed in France while growing up. All three of those countries are represented in a highly stereotyped way in the world showcase and I'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case for the others too.

I didn't say and in fact don't object to the way they are showcased, but they aren't representative of those countries beyond the most shallow level. The buildings are lovely, the food is nice, the entertainment pleasant. It's great stuff for a theme park, it's not a useful source of historical or cultural information.

I agree. AS much as I love Epcot WC, and I enjoy strolling around the World, if I was looking for an educational or cultural expeience, I would visit that Country. I have no idea if Disney every intended that people use the WC as a replacement for an actual visit, but I do know that this is how a lot of people view Epcot. Me too! I may never get to visit many of the Countries represented, so this may be the closest I get to that experience. One day maybe I will enjoy "the real thing", but until then I must be satisfied with what I can do.

 

[rteetz]

I agree. AS much as I love Epcot WC, and I enjoy strolling around the World, if I was looking for an educational or cultural expeience, I would visit that Country. I have no idea if Disney every intended that people use the WC as a replacement for an actual visit, but I do know that this is how a lot of people view Epcot. Me too! I may never get to visit many of the Countries represented, so this may be the closest I get to that experience. One day maybe I will enjoy "the real thing", but until then I must be satisfied with what I can do.

Disney originally intended world showcase to be a sneak peak of sorts into that country maybe to influence and actual visit.

 

[Flyerjab]

Well personally I disagree with your opinion on avatar fitting in AK because I think it does so we'll just have to to disagree there.

I do agree that Epcot is a lost cause and is falling fast from where it was. However today's gran fiesta tour upgrade does show that they do still do some good things there.

I could see good dinosaur going into dinoland and I don't have a problem with that because that land isn't that great. Now I can't see them shoehorning lion king into the safaris, that is an incredibly popular attraction. The same goes for Everest. Rohde would throw a fit.

Imagination is definitely a lost cause. I can't say anything for the seas as I don't know much about what that attraction was like before it got nemo.

To me avatar fits in AK because of its stunning visuals. AK is stunning with its details and so is avatar. DHS is more of a we don't have anywhere else to put it so let's put it here park.

I don't necessarily agree the all of Epcot is lost. I still think the World Showcase is a nice place to visit. Future World I will agree with though. I enjoy Soarin, TT and SSE, but it pretty much ends there. What is key for me though is that I like to let people know that I have only started visiting WDW in 2009. As such, I am not an Epcot purist…I apparently never visited it when it was the nexus of the universe at one point for some fans. But even I know that FW has become old, stagnant and at some points downright boring. Which is a sin considering the original mission was to inspire its guests! I have to be honest though and say that Frozen in Norway just doesn't shatter my expectations for what this park is supposed to be the way it does for other people. I will probably never get to ride it though without a FP cause the lines for this will probably be ludicrous at first.

Nemo in The Living Seas was not needed. The queue for that ride feels like it is about a mile long and it is pretty much a walk on for us every time. That IP tie-in hasn't helped that part of the pavilion at all. I still think that they could consult with James Cameron on some type of deep sea experience for that pavilion. He is obviously well-versed on that subject.

Since I have been visiting in 2009, TT has been upgraded and Soarin is being upgraded; two massive E-Tickets in FW that draw the majority of the people. It has been stated that $350 million has been approved for improvements to this park. Hopefully they use it on Imagination and Ellen's Energy Adventure (this particular ride is laughable). I just worry about how it is used. WDW does NOT need some cheap IP tie-in to improve these pavilions. Having said that, though, the three caballeros AAs in the GFT in Mexico was pretty awesome.

DAK is my favorite park in Orlando. The theming (for me) is unbeatable in certain areas…I mean Harambe is ridiculous. I can lose myself in that part of the park. As far as IPs go with this park, I don't see there being a need to add an IP tie-in for rides like KS or EE. The wait times are usually ridiculous and I don't see Rohde bending to that line of thinking. To me, the area that should fear a possible re-theme is Dino Land. It is obviously never as busy as the other areas and it is the one people complain about the most. And the E-Ticket there just doesn't draw in the people that EE or KS does. A tie-in with The Good Dinosaur would surprise me though as I haven't heard that movie knocking it out of the park in terms of ticket sales. And Pandora will be mind-blowing. I have been saying that since day one and will continue to. Articos on the wdwmagic boards (works for WDW) told me one time that this is a 'show piece' for the imagineers and it will be one of the most impressive areas with theming and attractions until Star Wars Land opens in DHS. With that in mind, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

 

[rteetz]

I don't necessarily agree the all of Epcot is lost. I still think the World Showcase is a nice place to visit. Future World I will agree with though. I enjoy Soarin, TT and SSE, but it pretty much ends there. What is key for me though is that I like to let people know that I have only started visiting WDW in 2009. As such, I am not an Epcot purist…I apparently never visited it when it was the nexus of the universe at one point for some fans. But even I know that FW has become old, stagnant and at some points downright boring. Which is a sin considering the original mission was to inspire its guests! I have to be honest though and say that Frozen in Norway just doesn't shatter my expectations for what this park is supposed to be the way it does for other people. I will probably never get to ride it though without a FP cause the lines for this will probably be ludicrous at first.

Nemo in The Living Seas was not needed. The queue for that ride feels like it is about a mile long and it is pretty much a walk on for us every time. That IP tie-in hasn't helped that part of the pavilion at all. I still think that they could consult with James Cameron on some type of deep sea experience for that pavilion. He is obviously well-versed on that subject.

Since I have been visiting in 2009, TT has been upgraded and Soarin is being upgraded; two massive E-Tickets in FW that draw the majority of the people. It has been stated that $350 million has been approved for improvements to this park. Hopefully they use it on Imagination and Ellen's Energy Adventure (this particular ride is laughable). I just worry about how it is used. WDW does NOT need some cheap IP tie-in to improve these pavilions. Having said that, though, the three caballeros AAs in the GFT in Mexico was pretty awesome.

DAK is my favorite park in Orlando. The theming (for me) is unbeatable in certain areas…I mean Harambe is ridiculous. I can lose myself in that part of the park. As far as IPs go with this park, I don't see there being a need to add an IP tie-in for rides like KS or EE. The wait times are usually ridiculous and I don't see Rohde bending to that line of thinking. To me, the area that should fear a possible re-theme is Dino Land. It is obviously never as busy as the other areas and it is the one people complain about the most. And the E-Ticket there just doesn't draw in the people that EE or KS does. A tie-in with The Good Dinosaur would surprise me though as I haven't heard that movie knocking it out of the park in terms of ticket sales. And Pandora will be mind-blowing. I have been saying that since day one and will continue to. Articos on the wdwmagic boards (works for WDW) told me one time that this is a 'show piece' for the imagineers and it will be one of the most impressive areas with theming and attractions until Star Wars Land opens in DHS. With that in mind, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

My first trip to WDW in 1999 and I was 8 months old so I don't remember a thing. The farthest trip back I can remember was 2004 at the Pop Century. Even then I don't remember Epcot all that well but I do remember the old Test Track.

I like the seas as is but I would've liked to see it before as well to compare.

I am in total agreement with AK. I can't wait for Pandora and what that could bring to an already visually stunning theme park.

 

[DDLand]

To me avatar fits in AK because of its stunning visuals. AK is stunning with its details and so is avatar.

This gets to the heart of the different view points. If looks are all that matters and not substance, then the Forest Moon of Endor could go into DAK too. That has trees, strange creatures, and would look awesome...

That simply cannot be the barometer.

What its heart, message, and the amount of fun a guest can have should be the determinates. Not one of those factors. Not two. All three.

I'll leave my thoughts about this with this...

You have a treasure chest filled with solid gold coins. You want to add more gold that is of equal value to the existing coins. So you're given two jars of coins to choose from. One is only gold coated, the other is solid gold.

They may look the same, but one is real and meaningful. One does justice to the original gold in the chest.

Avatar may look good, but looks aren't all that matters.

 

[DDLand]

DAK is my favorite park in Orlando. The theming (for me) is unbeatable in certain areas…I mean Harambe is ridiculous. I can lose myself in that part of the park. As far as IPs go with this park, I don't see there being a need to add an IP tie-in for rides like KS or EE. The wait times are usually ridiculous and I don't see Rohde bending to that line of thinking. To me, the area that should fear a possible re-theme is Dino Land. It is obviously never as busy as the other areas and it is the one people complain about the most. And the E-Ticket there just doesn't draw in the people that EE or KS does. A tie-in with The Good Dinosaur would surprise me though as I haven't heard that movie knocking it out of the park in terms of ticket sales. And Pandora will be mind-blowing. I have been saying that since day one and will continue to. Articos on the wdwmagic boards (works for WDW) told me one time that this is a 'show piece' for the imagineers and it will be one of the most impressive areas with theming and attractions until Star Wars Land opens in DHS. With that in mind, 2017 can't get here soon enough.

I think you guys are taking this too literally. My point was no one could've imagined how corrupted Epcot would be today from its original vision.

I don't want DAK to fall into the same trap.

It's a slippery slope that DAK could fal down.

I also have said that Avatar is going to be amazing visually. I still think it's the wrong Ip.

 

[Planogirl]

I think you guys are taking this too literally. My point was no one could've imagined how corrupted Epcot would be today from its original vision.

I don't want DAK to fall into the same trap.

It's a slippery slope that DAK could fal down.

I also have said that Avatar is going to be amazing visually. I still think it's the wrong Ip.

Keep in mind that AK was apparently always intended to have a fantasy area of some sort. The dragon in the logo indicates that doesn't it?

As long as Avatar is the fantasy part of the equation then I'm personally OK with it. I'm usually a purist too and HATE what's become of Epcot in many ways.

 

[Nancyg56]

Disney originally intended world showcase to be a sneak peak of sorts into that country maybe to influence and actual visit.

It's working! I am not in a position to galivant around too much yet, but there are places that I want to visit after that little sneak peek.

I think that folks sometimes forget that Disney is a collection of theme parks, and for all of the enjoyment they bring, they ae not a replacement fo the "real thing."

 

[minnie mum]

My first trip to WDW in 1999 and I was 8 months old

Wait, what? You're only 16 years old???

 

[rteetz]

Avatar may look good, but looks aren't all that matters.

I have plenty of faith in the attractions as well. There is evidence the boat ride is using a new ride system like the one in Shanghai and I think the banshee attraction will be a true e ticket.

 

[rteetz]

Wait, what? You're only 16 years old???

17

 

[rteetz]

I think you guys are taking this too literally. My point was no one could've imagined how corrupted Epcot would be today from its original vision.

I don't want DAK to fall into the same trap.

It's a slippery slope that DAK could fal down.

I also have said that Avatar is going to be amazing visually. I still think it's the wrong Ip.

Epcot has a lot to do with the Disney management. Epcot also needs constant updates in future works because the future is forever changing. World showcase can be more stagnant and I currently am ok with it except for Norway. Future world just needs a lot of work. AK doesn't need fixing up it just needs more to do which its getting.

 

[Planogirl]

Epcot has a lot to do with the Disney management. Epcot also needs constant updates in future works because the future is forever changing. World showcase can be more stagnant and I currently am ok with it except for Norway. Future world just needs a lot of work. AK doesn't need fixing up it just needs more to do which its getting.

I see people sometimes say that the pavilions are poor representations of the countries. I realize that they are like real-life travelogues but the basic idea is true and so are many of the elements even if Disneyfied. That's part of the problem with the situation in Norway. It veers wildly off course rather than just playing it safe. But then that poor horse has been beaten enough.

Epcot should have been routinely updated. If it was a bit like a world's fair as some said then it made no sense to just let it languish. Each word's fair is new and shiny. They don't just throw up the same buildings and exhibits.

Ugh, I have to wonder what Future World will become.

 

[Flyerjab]

17

Wow. You are young enough to be my kid.

 

[DanBoris]

This gets to the heart of the different view points. If looks are all that matters and not substance, then the Forest Moon of Endor could go into DAK too. That has trees, strange creatures, and would look awesome...

That simply cannot be the barometer.

What its heart, message, and the amount of fun a guest can have should be the determinates. Not one of those factors. Not two. All three.

I'll leave my thoughts about this with this...

You have a treasure chest filled with solid gold coins. You want to add more gold that is of equal value to the existing coins. So you're given two jars of coins to choose from. One is only gold coated, the other is solid gold.

They may look the same, but one is real and meaningful. One does justice to the original gold in the chest.

Avatar may look good, but looks aren't all that matters.

Avatar provides a visually rich alien environment which fit's one of AK's original intentions which was to showcase real as well as imaginary animals. Endor has alien life but the environment looks exactly like one we have here on Earth. What make Avatar such a good fit goes beyond the environment. The central theme of Avatar is living in harmony with and the protection of the natural world and the consequence of not doing so which fits in very well with AK.

Here is the dedication message AK:

"Welcome to a kingdom of animals... real, ancient and imagined: a kingdom ruled by lions, dinosaurs and dragons; a kingdom of balance, harmony and survival; a kingdom we enter to share in the wonder, gaze at the beauty, thrill at the drama, and learn."

The bolded words all fit very well with Avatar.