Frommer article full of WDW misinformation

[EUROPACL]

The Value resorts aren't about creativity. They're about allowing guests who could otherwise not afford to do so a chance to stay on Disney property.

Well at least we agree on the "The Value" resorts aren't creative. So you're not ready to sing the joys of the great magic and Disney feel of the Nick Hotel I guess?

They haven little to do with "allowing guest" an affordable chance to stay on property as Disney was doing that years before the caste system of Hotels and Motels came around. The Values were simply a way to keep more money in Disney's hands....a very cheap way and as you said not creative....which really what is Disney about again?

You're sorta moving the target around for these Motels aren't you though?

 

[boomhauer]

Well at least we agree on the "The Value" resorts aren't creative. So you're not ready to sing the joys of the great magic and Disney feel of the Nick Hotel I guess?

They haven little to do with "allowing guest" an affordable chance to stay on property as Disney was doing that years before the caste system of Hotels and Motels came around. The Values were simply a way to keep more money in Disney's hands....a very cheap way and as you said not creative....which really what is Disney about again?

You're sorta moving the target around for these Motels aren't you though?

I didn't say they weren't creative. I said they weren't about creativity, meaning I don't think they were built in mind by Disney saying "Let's make these resorts something amazing and different!!!". They are what they are.

As for the Nick Hotel, unlike others on this thread that have never set foot inside a room at the All Stars passing judgement on them, I won't do the same for a hotel/motel I've never stayed at.

What should Disney have done? Instead of the All Stars built another Polynesian type resort and charge $400 a night for those rooms? The Value Resorts were an ingenios move on the part of Disney.

Again, different strokes for different folks. I tihnk the Values do an excellent job at what they're supposed to do. Provide a fun atmosphere at an affordable price. I think you're reading too much into it.

 

[YoHo]

The Value resorts aren't about creativity. They're about allowing guests who could otherwise not afford to do so a chance to stay on Disney property.

Oh really?

Because when Caribbean Beach opened up, they gave the same reason. Allowing guests who could not afford to stay onsite stay onsite. And CBR while not the best of the mods certainly follows the design principles AND, when it first opened, it's rack rate was very very close to what the All Stars were when they opened up. Disney just bumped up the costs of the mods to make more profit while giving the guests less and making them think they were doing them a favor.

But here's the more interesting question. If we acknowledge that the values aren't about creativity and we acknowledge that the Deluxes and mods better represent what Disney truely intended for WDW, then why in the world is it worth it to stay at a Value?
You aren't getting the Disney experience. The DIsney experience is at the Deluxe and Mods. You aren't getting a better room then you would offsite. You have a bus ride to every park just like staying offsite, you have fewer intrinsic food options.

If I stay offsite, I can still get a shuttle to the parks, I can get a multiday ticket, I can use all the DIsney transportation, I can eat at any restaurant, If I have a car I can still park at a resort I'm eating at (I think or has that rule changed now? My ride back is only a little longer and I paid a lot less for the room.
So what possible reason would anybody have for staying at the values? What Disney experience are you getting? Disney can effectively pick my pocket in the parks. Don't need to stay on property for that.

 

[YoHo]

What should Disney have done? Instead of the All Stars built another Polynesian type resort and charge $400 a night for those rooms? The Value Resorts were an ingenios move on the part of Disney.
.

They should have built the Fort Wilderness multi-tiered project, they should have built the Animal Kingdom multi-tiered project, they should have learned how to make a lower cost resort be a true Disney resort. In short, they should have tried to be Disney about it. But it was easier to treat their guests like idiots.

 

[boomhauer]

then why in the world is it worth it to stay at a Value?
You aren't getting the Disney experience. The DIsney experience is at the Deluxe and Mods. You aren't getting a better room then you would offsite. You have a bus ride to every park just like staying offsite, you have fewer intrinsic food options.

If I stay offsite, I can still get a shuttle to the parks, I can get a multiday ticket, I can use all the DIsney transportation, I can eat at any restaurant, If I have a car I can still park at a resort I'm eating at (I think or has that rule changed now? My ride back is only a little longer and I paid a lot less for the room.
So what possible reason would anybody have for staying at the values? What Disney experience are you getting? Disney can effectively pick my pocket in the parks. Don't need to stay on property for that.

I guess you just don't want to accept the fact that some people (myself included) really enjoy the Values. If All Star Movies was the same price as the Mods, I'd stay at Movies. The room size difference is barely noticeable. The food court at the values was MUCH better than the food court at Port Orleans. The bar was more inviting and friendly at Movies than Port Orleans. The bus service is MULTITUDES better at the Values than the Mods.

Stay off property and be at the mercy of your hotel's shuttle service. Or, drive yourself and pay $10 a day to park. Also, don't take advantage of Extra Magic Hours.

I don't know. Maybe you're on to something. Maybe the nearly 3,000 rooms at Pop and the 6,000 rooms at All Stars that are always filled are filled with people who are all making a huge mistake.

 

[EUROPACL]

I didn't say they weren't creative. I said they weren't about creativity, meaning I don't think they were built in mind by Disney saying "Let's make these resorts something amazing and different!!!". They are what they are.

Again you prove you don't know the Disney that Walt built.

As for the Nick Hotel, unlike others on this thread that have never set foot inside a room at the All Stars passing judgement on them, I won't do the same for a hotel/motel I've never stayed at.

Your life must be filled with nothing but going to movies, hotels, driving cars, trying products, eating at new places, watching new TV shows going to new theme parks....before your able to comment and pass judgement on something. You'll find that most people don't need to try a crap sandwich to know that its not going to taste good.

Again I think you refuse to admit that ....NO in fact the Nick Hotel is just as cheap and tacky as Pop but becase there is no Disney label on it you won't defend it to your death.

Again, different strokes for different folks. I tihnk the Values do an excellent job at what they're supposed to do. Provide a fun atmosphere at an affordable price. I think you're reading too much into it.

...You should get a cape to go with your superpowers of DOM.

I guess you just don't want to accept the fact that some people (myself included) really enjoy the Values. .

Yes people even enjoy Dinorama...its just a strage thing....That dosen't mean that either are up to Disney standards.

Stay off property and be at the mercy of your hotel's shuttle service. Or, drive yourself and pay $10 a day to park. Also, don't take advantage of Extra Magic Hours.

What ever did you crow about when the bus service was cosidered horrible at these motels and when the Parks stayed open late enough not to need a "EMH" blessed to masses filling the parks to near capacity on those days?

I don't know. Maybe you're on to something. Maybe the nearly 3,000 rooms at Pop and the 6,000 rooms at All Stars that are always filled are filled with people who are all making a huge mistake.

Always full? You mean thanks to discounts, half built hotels, free food and many scheduled deflowing events through the year at the All Stars.

 

[boomhauer]

OK, first off Walt is dead.

The comment about not needing to try something to know it's crap is just wrong in my opinion.

I won't defend the Nick Hotel because I've never seen it. I also won't criticize it either, for the same reason. Whoever said I liked everything Disney did? There's alot I don't care for. I hated Old Key West. I think Dinorama is crap. I think ticket prices are too expensive. I don't know why you can't understand that just because you don't like the Values, other people do.

Whatever the reason they're full, they're full. If they were that bad, people (myself included) wouldn't stay there.

 

[EUROPACL]

OK, first off Walt is dead.

Thanks ...but look a little deeper.

The comment about not needing to try something to know it's crap is just wrong in my opinion.

...again your life must be so busy.

I won't defend the Nick Hotel because I've never seen it. I also won't criticize it either, for the same reason. Whoever said I liked everything Disney did? There's alot I don't care for. I hated Old Key West. I think Dinorama is crap. I think ticket prices are too expensive. I don't know why you can't understand that just because you don't like the Values, other people do.

You keep saying that we don't understand that people like the Values...we do understand that and that is the problem.

So what is it going to take for you to make the leap and start staying at the Nick Hotel like you did for Disney? How did you ever make that leap for the values to begin with? Without ever staying there you must have been on pins and needles ....good thing they turned out to be everything that you hoped and dreamed of.

Whatever the reason they're full, they're full. If they were that bad, people (myself included) wouldn't stay there.

Full? Sure about that? Always full? Is it eaiser to use your powers of DOM when you can just make stuff up?

 

[YoHo]

People like football, does that mean Disney should own a team?
I don't give a fig if people like it or not. Just because people like it it doesn't make it Disney.

 

[boomhauer]

So what is it going to take for you to make the leap and start staying at the Nick Hotel like you did for Disney? How did you ever make that leap for the values to begin with? Without ever staying there you must have been on pins and needles ....good thing they turned out to be everything that you hoped and dreamed of.



Full? Sure about that? Always full? Is it eaiser to use your powers of DOM when you can just make stuff up?

Why would I stay at the Nick Hotel? Having done both, I have no interest in ever staying off property again. I wasn't on pins and needles at all. First time I stayed there it was all about the money. I didn't have much, I wanted to go to Disney, so it made the most sense. I think the fact that I stayed at a Mod BEFORE staying at a Value and then stayed at another Mod after staying at a Value, and still prefer the Values, says something about them.

I'm not positive if they're always full. I've stayed there about 10 times and can't imagine them being any more crowded than they were. I doubt highly that my experiences are all that disimilar from what it's normally like there.

 

[YoHo]

I think the fact that I stayed at a Mod BEFORE staying at a Value and then stayed at another Mod after staying at a Value, and still prefer the Values, says something about them.

No, it says something about you. There's nothing wrong with you liking the Values. There is something wrong with Disney building them, or people think they represent a good design choice on Disney's part.

 

[Keyser]

But here's the more interesting question. If we acknowledge that the values aren't about creativity and we acknowledge that the Deluxes and mods better represent what Disney truely intended for WDW, then why in the world is it worth it to stay at a Value?

OK, just to directly answer this question,

Staying at the values gives you access to perks only available to on-site visitors:
- Extended park hours
- The free airport bus service/luggage check
- Ability to use Disney Dining Plan
- Package delivery service

Bus service is much more convenient than the shuttles I've seen for offsite places. Or, if you have your own car, you avoid the parking fees at the parks. Plus there are small things, such as the ability to adjust your tickets at the hotel desk (I used this more than once), charge things to your room (not a big deal, but did simplify things), have Disney frills (specific TV channels, Mickey wake-up call, Mickey soaps, Disney-specific hotel store), etc. And yes, some people do like the "theming" (my daughter loved the Dalmatians). Most of those things it's difficult to assign a $ value to.

And finally, in my limited experience (offsite at 3 hotels, values twice), the offsite hotels I've stayed in have been significantly worse in terms of upkeep/maintenance, room quality/cleanliness, services (except internet access, which was usually free offsite), landscaping, and general facilities. There was no "security gate" at any of them (probably more cosmetic than anything, but it did feel much safer at the values). The offsite rooms did tend to be bigger, but didn't offer particularly more "usable" space (I think Disney did a pretty good job at optimizing space use in those rooms). The offsite ones I tried have been cheaper than the values (one of them almost 1/2 price, and the other two close to the values but about $20/night lower). I didn't just pick offsite ones at random either - I used tripadvisor. To me it's honestly surprising to hear the upkeep of the Disney values compared to that of those offsite places - there's been a major difference. But, I'm willing to grant that I probably just had some bad luck with these choices - I expect there are much better offsite ones out there. Keep in mind, though, there's something to be said for consistency (it's part of why chain restaurants are popular). If I were to stay at a Disney Value, I have a pretty good idea of what I'd be getting. If I stayed offsite (not at one of my previous ones, which I probably wouldn't return to), I know I'm taking a gamble.

Now, if I'd gone for offsite places at the same price as the Disney value resorts, maybe I would have had a better experience. But, in that case, I'd turn the question around - for the same price, why wouldn't you stay onsite (if your focus is on Disney World)?

That's all in answer to your question of why would one choose to stay at the Values. My point here is not to say that Disney should have built the Values, or that they were designed appropriately, that Disney did a good job with them, or anything. But, there are perfectly good reasons to choose to stay at one--given the range of choices available, a budget, and taking into account the goals you're wanting in your vacation, the Values can be a good choice. It's not just that people are deluded, simply settling for mediocrity, or willing to swallow anything branded Disney(c) as incredibly magical(tm).

 

[boomhauer]

No, it says something about you. There's nothing wrong with you liking the Values. There is something wrong with Disney building them, or people think they represent a good design choice on Disney's part.

Interesting point. And true.

However, I still think it's all a matter of opinion. My first trip to Disney was with my parents when I was 10 and we stayed offiste. My 2nd trip, I was 14, again with my parents, and stayed offsite. My 3rd trip, was with a friend when I was 20 and we stayed at Caribbean Beach. That's when I really fell in love with Disney. The next 6 or 7 trips were all spent at All Stars.

This past July, since we have 2 more kids, we decided to stay a Moderate, so we chose Riverside. It was nice, but I can say in a heartbeat, if given the choice, same price or not, I'd stay at a Value. We're staying at a couple Deluxes for the next 2 trips as we've always wanted to stay at Wilderness Lodge and Polynesian. After that, we'll be going back to the Values and getting 2 rooms. Not to sound corny, but for us, there is just something magical and very Disney about the Values.

 

[RoutemanDan]

Yeah, that's the same. Feel the Magic!

 

[EUROPACL]

OK, just to directly answer this question,

Staying at the values gives you access to perks only available to on-site visitors:
- Extended park hours
- The free airport bus service/luggage check
- Ability to use Disney Dining Plan
- Package delivery service

...ok so what were the reasons when the Extended Park hours were cancled, there was no airport bus ervice, no DDP and the Bus service to the parks was and still is really considered by some one of the worst things at Disney....so much so people often rent a car instead of using it. That leaves you with package delivery service so that you can over pay to stay at a Motel 6.

 

[boomhauer]

Yeah, that's the same. Feel the Magic!

I don't think anyone is arguing Pop Century and the Polynesian to be the "same". You're also talking a difference of $300 more per night. I assure you, there are far nicer resorts in the world than the best that Disney has to offer.

 

[EUROPACL]

I don't think anyone is arguing Pop Century and the Polynesian to be the "same". You're also talking a difference of $300 more per night. I assure you, there are far nicer resorts in the world than the best that Disney has to offer.

If you only knew what Disney charged for the Poly back in the 70's and early 80's before the Hotel/Motel caste system was invented by Eisner to squeeze more money out of guest.


I wonder if the DOM are going to be singing the joys of "Value" motels when Disney puts in place its plan for Fastpasses for those staying at higher priced Hotels onsite. I have a feeling some might change their tune when they are standing in line for Splash for 2+ hours becasue all of the Fastpasses are being given to those staying at the Poly.

 

[boomhauer]

If you only knew what Disney charged for the Poly back in the 70's and early 80's before the Hotel/Motel caste system was invented by Eisner to squeeze more money out of guest.


I wonder if the DOM are going to be singing the joys of "Value" motels when Disney puts in place its plan for Fastpasses for those staying at higher priced Hotels onsite. I have a feeling some might change their tune when they are standing in line for Splash for 2+ hours becasue all of the Fastpasses are being given to those staying at the Poly.

What is DOM?

They've been toying with that Fastpass rumor for years now. If it does happen, so be it. You pay more money for your room, maybe perks like that aren't a bad idea. That being said, I don't think it'll ever happen.

 

[RoutemanDan]

I don't think anyone is arguing Pop Century and the Polynesian to be the "same". You're also talking a difference of $300 more per night. I assure you, there are far nicer resorts in the world than the best that Disney has to offer.

I don't need your assurance that there are nicer hotels dude, I've been outside of Jersey and WDW enough to know that.

The prices at WDW's "Deluxe" are merely in place because people pay them. They are not 4 and 5 star resorts.

That's the pojnt of this whole discussion. Disney Resorts should all be on the level of the poly and be fairly priced.

We do have a caste system there which is unfortunate. They still could have made the values a themed property instead of a decorated motel.

 

[YoHo]

OK, just to directly answer this question,

Staying at the values gives you access to perks only available to on-site visitors:
- Extended park hours
- The free airport bus service/luggage check
- Ability to use Disney Dining Plan
- Package delivery service

Always nice to have a dispassionate logical view of things, thanks.
I'll just go through and make some comments.

On Extended hours. As was mentioned, 10+ years ago WDW started to drastically cut their operating hours and then offset it by charging for extra magic nights and such. They stopped charging, but hours never went back to the pre-97 levels. I'm glad onsite people get the extended hours, but it doesn't replace providing Service at a Disney level for all.
So I guess it's a valid reason to stay on site, but it's still kinda offensive.

As for the free airport services, I guess, but that's a recent add, and I've heard mixed revues.

The Disney Dining plan.... Back in the old days of food n' fun I thought it was awesome. I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think it's in many cases a false economy and it's lead to a reduction in the quality of the restaurants. Still, It is a perk.

Package delivery. Is that really worth the cost? Can't you get packages delivered to the front of the park anyway?

Bus service is much more convenient than the shuttles I've seen for offsite places. Or, if you have your own car, you avoid the parking fees at the parks.

I haven't used an offsite shuttle in decades, but I have used the busses. Apparently since the busses are all you get at the values, they make them work marginally better there then elsewhere. Still, the only difference is coming in in the morning and leaving at night. Offsite guests have full use of Disney transportation, so if they want to park hop, they can. The only other situation is the mid-day break, but let's be honest here. You're still at a significant disadvantage here at the Values. You're far away from everything which means getting back and forth is still a pain. Sure it's better, but is it worth the cost?

Plus there are small things, such as the ability to adjust your tickets at the hotel desk (I used this more than once), charge things to your room (not a big deal, but did simplify things), have Disney frills (specific TV channels, Mickey wake-up call, Mickey soaps, Disney-specific hotel store), etc. And yes, some people do like the "theming" (my daughter loved the Dalmatians). Most of those things it's difficult to assign a $ value to.

And these are all valid reasons and some are difficult to assign a value to. I agree they should be mentioned, but when looking globally at the values, versus offsite, in a generic sense, you can't assign them much value.

And finally, in my limited experience (offsite at 3 hotels, values twice), the offsite hotels I've stayed in have been significantly worse in terms of upkeep/maintenance, room quality/cleanliness, services (except internet access, which was usually free offsite), landscaping, and general facilities. There was no "security gate" at any of them (probably more cosmetic than anything, but it did feel much safer at the values). The offsite rooms did tend to be bigger, but didn't offer particularly more "usable" space (I think Disney did a pretty good job at optimizing space use in those rooms). The offsite ones I tried have been cheaper than the values (one of them almost 1/2 price, and the other two close to the values but about $20/night lower). I didn't just pick offsite ones at random either - I used tripadvisor. To me it's honestly surprising to hear the upkeep of the Disney values compared to that of those offsite places - there's been a major difference. But, I'm willing to grant that I probably just had some bad luck with these choices - I expect there are much better offsite ones out there. Keep in mind, though, there's something to be said for consistency (it's part of why chain restaurants are popular). If I were to stay at a Disney Value, I have a pretty good idea of what I'd be getting. If I stayed offsite (not at one of my previous ones, which I probably wouldn't return to), I know I'm taking a gamble.

Now, if I'd gone for offsite places at the same price as the Disney value resorts, maybe I would have had a better experience. But, in that case, I'd turn the question around - for the same price, why wouldn't you stay onsite (if your focus is on Disney World)?

I think offsite takes a little more work to find the best quality/price, but I've heard as many complaints about upkeep at the values and mods to think that Disney is as consistent here as they have been historically.

That's all in answer to your question of why would one choose to stay at the Values. My point here is not to say that Disney should have built the Values, or that they were designed appropriately, that Disney did a good job with them, or anything. But, there are perfectly good reasons to choose to stay at one--given the range of choices available, a budget, and taking into account the goals you're wanting in your vacation, the Values can be a good choice. It's not just that people are deluded, simply settling for mediocrity, or willing to swallow anything branded Disney(c) as incredibly magical(tm).

I don't think the issue is whether or not there are good reasons to stay onsite at the values. There are. The question is the writer wrong to hate them.

I would wish that the author would spell out the difference between what she expects (based on the DIsney of the past) vs. what she got and why that leads her to dislike the Values, but that's a level of distinction that is hard to see without a decent amount of study of Disney itself a level of study that non-disney nerds are simply unlikely to do. But they know the difference when they see it.