FROG PRINCESS Under Protest Already

[Charade]

Not too sure what your "wow" and sad simile means, but Disney has NOT had a starring human role (animation or non-animation) of a black man since "Song of the South" in the 1940's. This does NOT include the recent Tween "The Proud Family" (where a Dad actually lives with his family) or Disney's latest "Jump In". I forgot about the Let's So Raven friend Cory. It just doesn't happen often at all. Black men are donkey's dragons or some other creature. They give jokes and laughs, etc. This is not just Disney, its all those that make Family Movies. For whatever reason, it just can't be a normal black man just being a person or a phenomenal prince – all tall dark and handsome (like my husband).

.

Not true. Eddie Murphy starred in "The Haunted Mansion". Michael Jackson in "Captain EO". Cuba Gooding Jr. in "Snow Dogs".

 

[djm99]

Not true. Eddie Murphy starred in "The Haunted Mansion". Michael Jackson in "Captain EO". Cuba Gooding Jr. in "Snow Dogs".

Not really keeping score and as I stated in my comment, it does NOT happen often at all. There are people making honest positive efforts. AGAIN, as a person of color I appreciate that. The Haunted Mansion really is a GREAT example of Disney really putting a decent script and a big name to make a great movie. I stand corrected. I am humble enough to admit that. Captain EO, if memory serves was a 3D show in Epcot not at the movies – although Disney did put a lot of ‘stock’ in it. Which I loved as a kid - I forgot about that! Last, Snow Dogs was a bad movie all together. Couldn't 'get' into it. Even with your examples - we are talking 3 out of what 50+ movies since 1943 (when SOTS was made). The earliest of the mentioned was done in the early 1980's. Again, we can go backward and foreword all day long about diversity in this country OR we (includes me) could focus on hopes of making a GREAT new Princess who can be loved by all. NOT just little black girls - but all girls. Again, I am a Disney fan, if Disney decided to create a Latina Princess, an Italian Princess, or a Jewish Princess – DJM99 – would learn to love her. It really shows the content in a persons character when they blatantly state that they WILL NOT see this movie – and as of today, don’t have a reason. In truth, we don’t even know WHAT the movie is about. The only thing that we absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt is that a Black Princess will be made. So, to say this early that you will NOT see it, only leaves one conclusion – YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO SEE A BLACK PRINCESS. Someone wrote on this thread that the concept was ridiculous.

ETA: Save the explanation of the above statement, we are talking fairy tales here. Last time I looked there was no glass slippers, mermaids, flying carpets, or talking dragons. They are all make-believe so kill the historically correct thing.

For the record, I not suggesting that Disney or anyone else create an AA movie, but it would be nice to be included in great productions.

The thing that I don't get about it, if this really is the strategy, is why do all this just to justify song of the south re-release? Is the possible revenue from song of the south that big? Because it seems like a lot of trouble to go to (doing a whole new movie just to have ammo to defend a re-release).

I can't imagine that is really the driving force, because who besides disney fanatics is going to buy song of the south anyway? I would think there would be a lot more possible revenue is making a black princess and expanding the appeal of the wildly popular princess line to a new demographic, and making this new movie as good as it can be, with no link to an old controversy that could possible reduce the income.

The fact that the creation of the film is only to justify song of the south just does not ring true to me.

I'm not saying that disney really cares about minorities... I think this is just a business desicion to expand the princess line. And it would not make sense, business-wise, to link this new princess to a controversy that could turn off a large number of the parents of black children.

I am in total agreement here. I was just wondering why the OP open this thread as an AA princess issue - when the entire article alleges that the release of this movie has NOTHING to do with Disney really being PC - but a way to release SOTS. - BTW, I just saw SOTS about a month ago, and I really don't get what the big issue is. I have seen far worse images in old movies (and NEW ones) – and a few are currently on Primetime TV. I will admit that I didn't like it, BECAUSE of all the broken language. I watched it first and showed my daughter. She kept saying, "Mommy, what are they saying". My response, “I don't know - I'd have to rewind it and process it". It just was not my thing. But I wouldn't care if Disney released it. I wouldn't consider it a racist movie, but stereotypical and VERY common of that time. I think those that protest should find a much more important cause, and this movie - just isn't it!!

 

[Kim&Chris]

It really shows the content in a person character when they blatantly state that they WILL NOT see this movie – and we don’t have a reason. In truth we don’t even know WHAT the movie is about. The only thing that we absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt is that a Black Princess will be made. So, to say this early that you will NOT see it, only leaves one conclusion – YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO SEE A BLACK PRINCESS. Someone wrote on this thread that the concept was ridiculous.

You certainly do enjoy putting words in peoples mouths, which in itself speaks volumes, but I'm guessing you realize that already. I would love to see any princess; black, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Phillipine - the list could go on and on. I just doubt that this movie will ever be made. It seems Disney will not be able to do it right, no matter how they try. Please do not imply that my decision has anything to do with race. You don't know me, so you have no right to imply anything. Your "conclusions" are merely an extension of your belief that no one wants to see a black princess.

 

[djm99]

You certainly do enjoy putting words in peoples mouths, which in itself speaks volumes, Your "conclusions" are merely an extension of your belief that no one wants to see a black princess.

NO ONE or you. I have a desire to see this black princess - excited about it. Remember YOUR Comment:

Originally Posted by Kim&Chris
Enjoy the movie, I won't be seeing it.

You said that. And I don't have to put words in YOUR mouth - you do a good enough job all by yourself.

Originally Posted by Kim&Chris
Enjoy the movie, I won't be seeing it.

Originally Posted by Kim&Chris
Enjoy the movie, I won't be seeing it.

Originally Posted by Kim&Chris
Enjoy the movie, I won't be seeing it.

Originally Posted by Kim&Chris
Enjoy the movie, I won't be seeing it.

Please leave your "explanation" of this statement to yourself. YOU are entitled it.

 

[Kim&Chris]

I'm not really sure why you hit the 'quote' button so many times

I don't have to explain anything to you because you know everything

 

[MasterShake]

I think it's great that Disney is making a movie with an African American princess and it's a shame that they will probably have so much difficulty making it. Every decision they make will be looked at under a microscope by groups that want to find something to be offended about.

Maddy (IMO) has nothing to do with the name Mammy.

I can't see what the big deal is with her being a maid. Aladdin was a thief, but I don't remember an outcry from the Arab community. It's a pretty common theme to have a character rise from humble beginings to a position of greater importance. Several characters did not start off as princesses; Cinderella (maid) and Belle come to mind. What's being overlooked is the fact that I'm sure this character would have been brave, intelligent, and personable.

As far as the prince being African American, what difference does it make? It seems to me that it would be less racist to have Disney promoting an interracial union. Wouldn't that show how far we've come to have Disney make a movie with an interracial couple?

Disney has been criticized for not having an African American princess and now they will be criticized for making one. In the end they will probably have to play it so safe, that the movie will be ruined. Every creative aspect will be dissected and in the end we'll get a movie with a watered down plot that will get Disney the fewest pieces of hate mail.

The funniest part about this whole thing is the description of the “Rich White Spoiled Debutant”. As far as I can see the only group being portrayed negatively in this movie is Caucasians and I haven’t seen a single complaint about that.

 

[Charade]

The funniest part about this whole thing is the description of the “Rich White Spoiled Debutant”. As far as I can see the only group being portrayed negatively in this movie is Caucasians and I haven’t seen a single complaint about that.

That's because they deserve it...

 

[EUROPACL]

Disney has been criticized for not having an African American princess and now they will be criticized for making one. In the end they will probably have to play it so safe, that the movie will be ruined. Every creative aspect will be dissected and in the end we'll get a movie with a watered down plot that will get Disney the fewest pieces of hate mail.

The funniest part about this whole thing is the description of the “Rich White Spoiled Debutant”. As far as I can see the only group being portrayed negatively in this movie is Caucasians and I haven’t seen a single complaint about that.

To be fair, I'm not so sure that hate mail bothers Disney. They've been through a boycott from the Southern Baptist, they take constant flak over their "Gay Days" and their open door policy for "Gays" to work at Disney.

One thing is for sure the only people that are allowed to be hated upon these days are Caucasians and Christians....anybody else and its a national emergency.

 

[djm99]

Maddy (IMO) has nothing to do with the name Mammy.

I can't see what the big deal is with her being a maid. Aladdin was a thief, but I don't remember an outcry from the Arab community. It's a pretty common theme to have a character rise from humble beginings to a position of greater importance. Several characters did not start off as princesses; Cinderella (maid) and Belle come to mind. What's being overlooked is the fact that I'm sure this character would have been brave, intelligent, and personable.

As far as the prince being African American, what difference does it make? It seems to me that it would be less racist to have Disney promoting an interracial union. Wouldn't that show how far we've come to have Disney make a movie with an interracial couple?

Disney has been criticized for not having an African American princess and now they will be criticized for making one. In the end they will probably have to play it so safe, that the movie will be ruined. Every creative aspect will be dissected and in the end we'll get a movie with a watered down plot that will get Disney the fewest pieces of hate mail.

The funniest part about this whole thing is the description of the “Rich White Spoiled Debutant”. As far as I can see the only group being portrayed negatively in this movie is Caucasians and I haven’t seen a single complaint about that.

You made some really good points, and its kind of hard to argue on its logic. But in addition to what you mentioned, it wasn't so much as the name Maddy sounds like Mammy for me as it just sound like an old name. But hey this is taking place in the 1940's. Although the name is NOT an issue for me and I didn't even think about it, until I read an article right after the annoucement release, when I mentioned that Disney introduced its soon to be Princess, an African American named Maddy (to a co-worker sitting next to me), her first response (before I could even tell her what the article said) she said "Maddy – that’s a ugly name". When I told her about the article she agreed. - I don't like this "new" name at all. But I couldn’t even tell you what Snow Whites or Sleeping Beauty's name is. Who knows, one or both of them have a name. I think in general this whole thing is being thought about too much. We are talking about a fairy tale here. It’s all ‘make believe’.

Also, the whole interracial thing, Disney made an interracial Cinderella story with an African American Cinderella and the Prince was a Philippine Actor in 1997. I remember because I made my then “newlywed” husband watch it with me. His response, “A black man can’t even exist in a fairy tale”. Hey, I’m not a black man, and black women are portrayed slightly more positively than the men. He noticed this immediately. Although many see this as crossing racial barriers many find this unsetting and in many circles taboo. So, this interracial decision could bring more controversy than the name Maddy could ever. At the very least I would have like to see these characters with interracial families themselves. We are taking about a New Orleans setting. The French mixed with a little of every body in New Orleans. This French Prince could be Creole or she could be Creole. There is many ways and directions Disney could take this and really make it relevant to the melting pot of today. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney is in trouble here because the entire affair looks like a cynical marketing ploy.

Instead of coming out and saying “we have a wonderful story to tell – one that we think everyone will love”, the press announcement focused on the ethnicity of the lead character and how profitable the “princess” line has been for the company.

The entire project reeks of marketing PowerPoint presentation slide titled “Missing Demographic Groups from Current Product Line”.


People whine that “Disney is a business” and use it as an excuse to paper over any decision the company makes. But that statement is wrong – Disney is an entertainment business. It holds a different role in our society than the makers of carpet shampoo and industrial plumbing fixtures. Entertainment is, for better or worse, the mirror that we hold up to see ourselves and our world. Entertainment is how most people experience life beyond their neighborhood; entertainment surrounds and shapes us from our earliest moments.

Because of that special position, entertainment companies have special responsibilities to uphold that are unlike other industries. Knee-jerk marketing decisions have consequences far beyond a failed movie or a toy lines profitability.

 

[Nom]

Well, IMO, the fact that the lead male is a european prince makes me think that the black heroine will be resuced from her circumstances by a white male, or will have to leave her people to be with this white male... I am totally ASSuming here at the plot line, but I can't imagine much different because that is how most of the princess stories typcially end up. And a black woman having to be resuced by a white male may not sit well with many black people. Nothing against interracial relationships, I just think that we need more positive portrayals of strong black men in the media, especially aimed at kids... black boys will go see this movie as well. Wouldn't have been awesome if they could have seen a strong black male role model up on the screen?

ITA again with djm- it is great they are branching out with a black princess, but black boys need to see strong black men in the media even more!

I just wish that they had set the first black princess story in africa. Maybe reinact an old african folk tale.... with all the cast being african. That would probably have more support from african american groups, plus it would expose all our kids to an area of culture that we don't get enough of in school.

I don't know why they did not go that route--- seems safer than the story they decided to go with, and they could have done some amazing stuff with the african culture.

Oh well! But like I said... I think this is overall a good thing, just wish they had made a few different choices.

 

[Charade]

Why can't we just have people with strong "look up to" characteristics?

 

[Nom]

Why can't we just have people with strong "look up to" characteristics?

With all due respect, I think if you lived in a society where you rarely saw a strong character of your race portrayed in a positive light on the screen, you would better understand why it is important to see role models of your own race in the media. (I'm assuming that you're not a minority here- sorry if I am wrong! But I can't imagine someone who is a minority having that responce.)

 

[Charade]

With all due respect, I think if you lived in a society where you rarely saw a strong character of your race portrayed in a positive light on the screen, you would better understand why it is important to see role models of your own race in the media. (I'm assuming that you're not a minority here- sorry if I am wrong! But I can't imagine someone who is a minority having that responce.)

No, I'm not a minority. But I wasn't raised to look at peoples skin color before measuring their character.

 

[Nom]

No, I'm not a minority. But I wasn't raised to look at peoples skin color before measuring their character.

It has nothing to do with that... what I am trying to convey is that for many black boys, the only portrayal of themselves that they see in the media is 'gangsta pimpin'. It would have been very nice if disney had taken this opportunity to have a strong black prince- it would counter the many negative portrayals of black men that are so abundant in the media.

I'm not saying that it's their responsibility to do so, just that it would have been nice if they had gone that extra step.

There was actually just a great article on a similar topic in my sunday paper this morning... it was saying that black boys are behind all other races and sexes in school performance- and behind by a LOT. A new study says this might be because of a culture of de-valueing eduction in black men, partially due to the lack of positive black male role models in the media. (there are other reasons for this culture of de-vauled education, but lack of black male role models reminded me of this thread.)

Yes, all people should look up to any positive role model, irregardless of their color... but if you're a young black boy and you almost never see any positive portrayals of your race in the media, especially in animated features which are targetted to you- and all you see in the media is negative role models- well, it's not good. It can get to many young boys.

 

[Kim&Chris]

It has nothing to do with that... what I am trying to convey is that for many black boys, the only portrayal of themselves that they see in the media is 'gangsta pimpin'.

That's an interesting statement. I watch shows like Grey's Anatomy (a Disney Company show), where some of the most powerful characters are black and Hispanic. Those characters are about as far from "gangsta pimpin'" as possible. Maybe it's not media's fault entirely (if we beleived everything we saw on TV or in the theater, then we'd believe that all Asians knew karate, that all Italians were mobsters, that all blondes were dumb, etc - you get the picture!), but instead the choices people make for themselves.

 

[djm99]

That's an interesting statement. I watch shows like Grey's Anatomy (a Disney Company show), where some of the most powerful characters are black and Hispanic.

Kids do not watch Grey's Anatomy and you know that. We can keep on talking around the issues or we can talk like serious adults. As he/she stated we are talking about black young boys and the lack of positive role models. I agree that Disney is not responsible for do this themselves, but it would be nice.

 

[Kim&Chris]

Kids do not watch Grey's Anatomy and you know that. We can keep on talking around the issues or we can talk like serious adults. As he/she stated we are talking about black young boys and the like of positive role models. I agree that Disney is not responsible for do this themselves, but it would be nice.

I don't know what your problem with me is, but you certainly don't need to reply to everything I post.

 

[djm99]

I don't know what your problem with me is, but you certainly don't need to reply to everything I post.

I do NOT have a problem with you, I don't even 'know' you. And please read over this thread - YOU 'responded' to my comment. IMO, if you don't want people to respond - don't post. Makes sense to me!

 

[djm99]

Why can't we just have people with strong "look up to" characteristics?

Agreed - don't forget that WE don't all look alike - and WE should all be represented.