FP + What we know and what we want to know

[DougEMG]

Crossover (aka: park hopping) is a major reason Epcot doesn't have a parade. The daily strain on the monorail system and entry when people flocked to Epcot from their first park-of-choice for the afternoon and evening performance of Tapestry was an expense Disney simply didn't want. It short, a major spike, and couldn't be worked into the daily operations without vast over-staffing for the rest of the day.

Disney's solution? Eliminate the spike. They got rid of the parade despite it still being relatively popular at the time it closed. Yes it needed to be "redone" again to refresh it, but the MK parade has done that dozens of times without major changes at this point. Note that the same fireworks show that features the parade puppets still plays nightly.

So park-hopping can sometimes be a liability to Disney. Similarly, it was seen as a problem at the Disneyland Resort with World of Color - guests would start at Disneyland, run over to DCA for the World of Color, then run back to Disneyland for the rest of their night. Disney didn't want that type of touring pattern and the Electronica and such sprung up to try and keep guests in DCA after and before World of Color in the evenings. Dashing to Disneyland to see Fantasmic or the Fireworks was to be stopped.

Interesting, I always wondered why they got rid of the parade in Epcot.

Thanks.

 

[bcrook]

I don't think entitlement has anything to do with it.

Disney offers a product for sale. As the customer we decide if we want to purchase that product. It's that simple.

The current problem is that Disney is changing the product that some of us have already booked and paid for, but they haven't said exactly what all the changes are.

They could be releasing more information if this was based on customer service. But this is a delicate marketing move, it has to be planned carefully. There will be some casualties. I am trying to avoid being one of those statistics.

 

[bcrook]

You might want to check on that...I'm sure you meant "2013" in the above...but the deadline was Dec 31st, 2012.

Unless they extended it, and I didn't get anything saying they did.

Yup! I meant December 31st.

 

[SaraJayne]

That is correct.

What seems to be missing here is that WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES. Your choice is not my choice. It's the beauty of the economy.

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

It is impossible for anyone to fully manage the economy -- either the government or in this case Disney. The choice of the consumer can be anticipated, but not guaranteed. I think that as Disney tries to greater manage the economy within their theme parks, they will find what the Soviet Union discovered, it really isn't possible to anticipate every possible choice.

When I considered the potential Fastpass limitations on the AP, I made the following choices:

• No AP
• My 12 days in the parks will be reduced to 10

The impact on Disney could be:

• I stay at the resort and still purchase my meals at the resort.
• I go to Downtown Disney and spend more money.
• I go to Sea World for the day.
• I cancel my extra days at a Disney resort and go visit my grandparents in South Florida.

Disney will eventually reveal the full rules and I will finalize my decisions. Some options may benefits Disney and some may be a loss for Disney, but I have the CHOICE as a consumer to make those decisions.

One of the frustrations of a forum such as this is that people criticize people's consumer choice without considering that we will each make choices that appear to us to be the best for our situation. My choice to not buy an AP as a buffer against the possibility of Disney dividing my family up on FastPass and Standby is my choice to make.

Your post neatly sums everything up.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

But there are lots of ways you are rewarded for being there early other than the number of fastpasses you can get.

Suppose you and the hypothetical family got the same 3 fp+ for key things you want to do in the afternoon. Your family still gets to RD and they sleep in and saunter in around noon.

Your family gets a much less crowded Main Street, you can probably ride 2 or 3 headliners right away with little to no waits, and spend more time together as a family in the parks. You will see more and do more and (IMO) have more fun.

What if the FP+ especially since it MAY be for only 1 headliner, will bring more crowds into the park in the morning and making SB lines longer? There can only be so many FP+s for a certain ride a day. They can't all be for everyone to get a late afternoon one. They will be filling those FPs lines starting at the beginning of the day. Right now, at RD, both FP and SB lines are empty. With the new system, at RD, the FP line may already be pretty much filled. This means even if I get there at RD, the SB lines will get long much faster. I hope that makes sense. It does in my mind but my mind sometimes works different than everyone else's.

 

[linzbear]

The way people are behaving in this thread is deplorable. The good news is that in a few weeks the system will start being rolled out and some folks are going to have to scurry back under their rocks.

Hey mousermerf, I know some here don't really want to hear your info, but I love it, even if it isn't straight from the Mouse's mouth. Do you have any idea about when, say, all resorts will be rolled out? DVC resorts? I'm guessing Easter considering all/most of the turnstiles should be changed over by then, and RFID stickers will be a pain for Easter crowds.

 

[doggydoc]

My choice is that I don't like the POTENTIAL restrictions Disney MAY impose and based on the limited information I choose not to purchase an AP so that my family could stay together and use FastPass+. Your choice may be to wait in the standby line, and that's fine because in this country we are still allowed to make those types of choices.

Good post. Another MAY that the defenders want to ignore is that under the restrictions assumed here my experience will definitely be diminished while Disney is hoping that it MAY improve for others. It MAY not. We could end up with a large number of new visitors that don't utilize the system for whatever reason, there sure seems to be a lot that don't use FP-, or an overwhelming majority may use FP+ for meet and greets and parades/fireworks etc. If either of these scenarios occur the FP lines will be empty, the SB lines grow exponentially and NO ONE is happy

 

[bigAWL]

What if the FP+ especially since it MAY be for only 1 headliner, will bring more crowds into the park in the morning and making SB lines longer? There can only be so many FP+s for a certain ride a day. They can't all be for everyone to get a late afternoon one. They will be filling those FPs lines starting at the beginning of the day. Right now, at RD, both FP and SB lines are empty. With the new system, at RD, the FP line may already be pretty much filled. This means even if I get there at RD, the SB lines will get long much faster. I hope that makes sense. It does in my mind but my mind sometimes works different than everyone else's.

Do we have any evidence that the FP+ return windows will be any different than the current FP windows? If they are the same, I don't see why the early lines would be significantly different from what they are now. Why would FP+ lines fill any faster than current FP lines? If your assumption is that the new system will encourage more people to show up for RD, ok. But I don't think it will.

 

[DougEMG]

I just find it interesting that people seem to be looking for any and all reasons to dislike the new FP+ before even giving it a chance.

As an uberuser that uses many FP per day to ride my favorite rides multiple times in one day, the terms and conditions around the current FP+ implementation will reduce my ability to do that. I don't actually need to wait and try out the system to be able to see that. Hence I can confidentility say that I don't like the new FP+ system since it doesn't work for me.

 

[mesaboy2]

Do we have any evidence that the FP+ return windows will be any different than the current FP windows? If they are the same, I don't see why the early lines would be significantly different from what they are now. Why would FP+ lines fill any faster than current FP lines? If your assumption is that the new system will encourage more people to show up for RD, ok. But I don't think it will.

No evidence. There is an apparent assumption that FP windows may be offered at park open, rather than the current 40-45 minutes after.

 

[doconeill]

No evidence. There is an apparent assumption that FP windows may be offered at park open, rather than the current 40-45 minutes after.

The only reason I can think of that they might do this is just as a way to offer more than currently available, which would make the system a little more valuable (at least in the eyes of some). But also part of what made Fastpass work was that people were deferring their ride times to a later time in exchange for not having to wait in line. This generally would be a plus for the standby line through the day until the end.

I'm not sure what effect this might have. Brain doesn't want to think about it right now.

 

[katdralion]

Originally Posted by UNCFanatik View Post
I just find it interesting that people seem to be looking for any and all reasons to dislike the new FP+ before even giving it a chance.

I don't need to look very hard for reasons, they're all there in black and white in the terms and conditions.

As an uberuser that uses many FP per day to ride my favorite rides multiple times in one day, the terms and conditions around the current FP+ implementation will reduce my ability to do that. I don't actually need to wait and try out the system to be able to see that. Hence I can confidentility say that I don't like the new FP+ system since it doesn't work for me.

Although in my case it is more the booking in advance that bothers me. They could give me 50FP+ per day and I still wouldn't like it! I know now that I absolutely do not want to make reservations in advance, waiting until this is rolled out will not change my mind.

 

[Majik9]

No evidence. There is an apparent assumption that FP windows may be offered at park open, rather than the current 40-45 minutes after.

To add on to this... Let's say MK Park opens at 9AM and they indeed do have preregistered 9AM - 10AM fastpass windows for SM. If I happen to be the holder of said FP, I am WAY more likely to use the fastpass between 9:45AM or later even to 10AM then I am from 9AM to 9:30AM.

SO even if they do have preregistered Fastpass times at Rope Drop, assuming the return window is still an hour, most of those will be used in the very back half of that window.

Thus Rope Drop which use to give an hour or two (depending on day, season, etc...) of smaller S.B. lines will be mostly the same but instead for 45mins.

Additionally, there will be people who use to not be in the park in the first hour post R.D. that will be. However, you can also assume there will be a lot more who use to be at R.D. to Collect Fastpasses that will no longer be.

 

[jade1]

To add on to this... Let's say MK Park opens at 9AM and they indeed do have preregistered 9AM - 10AM fastpass windows for SM. If I happen to be the holder of said FP, I am WAY more likely to use the fastpass between 9:45AM or later even to 10AM then I am from 9AM to 9:30AM.

SO even if they do have preregistered Fastpass times at Rope Drop, assuming the return window is still an hour, most of those will be used in the very back half of that window.

Thus Rope Drop which use to give an hour or two (depending on day, season, etc...) of smaller S.B. lines will be mostly the same but instead for 45mins.

Additionally, there will be people who use to not be in the park in the first hour post R.D. that will be. However, you can also assume there will be a lot more who use to be at R.D. to Collect Fastpasses that will no longer be.

agree

 

[JaimeA]

To add on to this... Let's say MK Park opens at 9AM and they indeed do have preregistered 9AM - 10AM fastpass windows for SM. If I happen to be the holder of said FP, I am WAY more likely to use the fastpass between 9:45AM or later even to 10AM then I am from 9AM to 9:30AM.

SO even if they do have preregistered Fastpass times at Rope Drop, assuming the return window is still an hour, most of those will be used in the very back half of that window.

Thus Rope Drop which use to give an hour or two (depending on day, season, etc...) of smaller S.B. lines will be mostly the same but instead for 45mins.

Additionally, there will be people who use to not be in the park in the first hour post R.D. that will be. However, you can also assume there will be a lot more who use to be at R.D. to Collect Fastpasses that will no longer be.

And just think Disney might offer more fastpass slots in that time frame then at 2-3pm. If they can get more people to sign up for a 9am fastpass then that means more people in the park earlier. Rope drop might be losing its luster. i hope not might i add

 

[HelenParr]

On strategy, I am more likely to go at RD than I am now (which is never) with FP+ because I will want to ensure I am able to ride the E-attractions that I enjoy, particularly at MK, and from what we "know" now (yes, yes, subject to change) it appears that once I switch over to FP+ I would not be able to, for example: wander into MK around 11am, grab a FP for Splash, do other stuff until FP window begins, grab FP for BTMMR, ride Splash, wait for window, get another FP for Space. Rinse, repeat, based on conditions on the ground. And it also appears that I will not be able to pre-schedule all the mountains same day.

Seems like I would need to drag myself over there and get the riding in while the riding is good!! I vividly recall pre-FP days and I don't think I can go back to 90 minute waits. Not an entitlement feeling, just lack of stamina and a lack of patience.

 

[mom2rtk]

To add on to this... Let's say MK Park opens at 9AM and they indeed do have preregistered 9AM - 10AM fastpass windows for SM. If I happen to be the holder of said FP, I am WAY more likely to use the fastpass between 9:45AM or later even to 10AM then I am from 9AM to 9:30AM.

SO even if they do have preregistered Fastpass times at Rope Drop, assuming the return window is still an hour, most of those will be used in the very back half of that window.

You make a very good point. I hope Disney understands that is exactly how people are going to use those FPs and don't overload that first hour. Or 9:45 at the FP return line is going to be a mess.

 

[doconeill]

Interesting thought...if the attraction is underutilized in the hour after rope drop, drive more utilization via FP+...sure, you probably can't drive it too much to the earliest time, but they might be able to increase it somewhat if that's the only ones left available for the late planners...

Varying it during the day, like post-parade, is probably something that they could have already done...

 

[DVCJones]

As an uberuser that uses many FP per day to ride my favorite rides multiple times in one day, the terms and conditions around the current FP+ implementation will reduce my ability to do that. I don't actually need to wait and try out the system to be able to see that. Hence I can confidentility say that I don't like the new FP+ system since it doesn't work for me.

As a non-uberuser, I still don't like the sounds of FP+ because of the limitation. (Only 3/4 per day). We park hop, so I will be pretty much SOL in one of the parks I choose to visit in a day. The other thing I don't like, is we usually gage when and for what to get FPs for on any given day. Sometimes (for whatever reason) the wait time may be short. Sometimes we just hit it right. I would really hate to find out I used one of my coveted FB+ tickets and show up and find out the wait time was under 20 minutes.

I don't think we have ever abused the current FP system. We usually get a FP for ride #1, then wait in a queue for #2, then get another FP and ride #1. Repeat. We have never got more than one set of FPs for the same attraction.

I just resent the fact that there are limits. I think you should be able to plan ahead for all attraction or keep the current system. For the amount of $$$ that it costs to get in the parks, I will seriously be mad if I find that my experience in the park has suffered because of this new system.

Only time will tell...

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

You make a very good point. I hope Disney understands that is exactly how people are going to use those FPs and don't overload that first hour. Or 9:45 at the FP return line is going to be on overload.

So will the SB line have those FP+ times already figured into their wait time at RD? And wouldn't that make SB lines longer before we even have a chance to get to the ride?

And will Disney have those FP+ in a big block or would there be 20 that have 9:15 - 10:15 and 20 that have 9:20 - 10:20? But I would think that anyone with an early morning FP would be using it more at the end of their time to try and take advantage of what little benefit is left by being there at RD.

I would say that even starting FPs at 9:45 will more than likely prevent us normal RDers from getting as much done. And it is more than likely to have guest that are normally there so early into the parks during those morning hours. I say again that not everyone can have late afternoon or evening FP+s for when the park is super busy. There will come a point when all that will be left is early morning spots.

What I wonder is if those will be taken by those that would be there early anyway or those that don't like to be there early but didn't have a choice. And how happy will they be when they had to take a 10:00 FP when they didn't like to be there so early anyway. The one that complains about not being able to get a FP unless they are there at RD may find they have to be there almost just as early because the only time to ride Space Mountain without a huge wait is at 10 a.m.

But I still hold out hope it isn't going to be as bad as I imagine and I will find myself pleasantly surprised during my trip. Better that than to think everything will be just fine and leave my vacation very disappointed after spending so much on it.