FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Robo]

I believe it was an attempt at invoking Shakepeare's phrase "The truth will out", meaning the truth of it will come out - and the truth of FP+ will come out with near-future trips.

At least I think that is what he's getting at.

Yup.

But, when I reread the post, I figured it was just too thin a line to be understood.
I changed it immediately.
(Too late, of course.)

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Yup.

But, when I reread the post, I figured it was just too thin a line to be understood.
I changed it immediately.
(Too late, of course.)

I got it

(love the new signature Robo!)

 

[Robo]

Yeah they have better ones and adding more all the time.



Disney has already admitted they are conceding the ride wars.

They failed to CC me on that memo.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But I have a lot of people making plans right now. We don't have any more time left to wait. We have to make our decisions based on what we know right now.

I'm curious: what do you NEED to know, personally, to make a GO/NO-GO decision at this point? Not to PLAN your trip, but to decide to pull the trigger -- or not -- on your upcoming $10K in Disney vacations (I think that's what you mentioned at some point)? When are they? What is your drop-dead date to make your decisions? Maybe you'll have more official info before that drop-dead date? And if not -- if no new ACTUAL info -- do you cancel?

I'm wondering all of this because you're not actually getting NEW INFO on here to help make a go/no-go decision -- not until Disney releases REAL info -- you're getting guesses. Besides the official info that you've done an awesome job of summarizing on the first page, you're now left to think things through based on things that Disney MIGHT do... no... that DISers think Disney MIGHT do based upon reading and re-reading the T&C tea leaves. Is that really helpful to making a go/no-go decision? It wouldn't be for me, personally.

I'm going in Feb and in Oct either way. I made that decision based upon Disney's past track record, blah, blah, blah - I've said it all before. I 100% understand the wish to have more info for PLANNING -- who wouldn't love that, even if it's an unreasonable request at this stage in the rollout of a major initiative. But what details/info would you need for the GO/NO-GO decision you seem to keep referring to having to make "soon"? And can you get it from the conjecture here?

 

[Coyotesweat]

Hmm.

Since I was last at Disney World in 1988, and Fastpass was introduced in 1999, I don't have any particular attachment to either the old or the new system. I'm going first week of Feb, because I like lower crowds and cooler weather, so hopefully wait times for all but the most popular rideslike Soarin, Test track, TsM, RnR, mountains, will be reasonable.

As I am resort guest, POP, I could get FP or possibly test FP plus.

Advantages I see for each system:

Regular FP
Pro:
Can use more than one FP for popular attractions (Say get FP for rnR and ride toy story, then after riding RnR get one for TOT for later)
Cons: still have to get there early, as only way to avoid horrendous line on headliners is to get there rope drop or get FP, and if fast pass is not gotten very early, ride time may be too late in day to get other FPs for popular rides, or may be unavailable. I work late nights (my schedule is 2:30 pm to 11:30 pm), so will be struggle to be there at 7-8 am my time zone.
Another con: since headliners are usually located in different areas of park, lots of time spent hurrying across park to get fast pass, then to another area to ride standby, then back across park to use FP, then back to get next FP.

Fastpass+
can schedule FP for a convenient time, so for example could schedule Space Mountain for later evening so it's dark, and maybe a popular ride like jungle cruise in busy afternoon hours, and nice spot for Wishes so we don't have to wait as long. Then if planned correctly, on arrival could work our way around park from one land to the next, starting with one longer line ride like BTM, and not so much extra travel time.
No absolute necessity to get there rope drop to ride a headliner that day with minimal wait, though it is still desirable.

 

[gwmort]

Our family is also a RD till closing time family. Because of this we were able to do so much. And yes, I am unhappy that I will no longer be rewarded for spending my whole day in the park and spending lots of money there. The fact that a family can spend only 4 or 5 hours and we both receive that same amount of FPs doesn't make me want to spend more time in the park. It makes me want to spend less time there. So in that sense I do feel entitled. I liked that I was rewarded for the extra time I spent in the park and we were only limited by the amount of time we were willing to spend in the park. It seems the people that showed up at noon and were upset about the FPs could be called entitled just as much as us "super-users" seem to be.

But there are lots of ways you are rewarded for being there early other than the number of fastpasses you can get.

Suppose you and the hypothetical family got the same 3 fp+ for key things you want to do in the afternoon. Your family still gets to RD and they sleep in and saunter in around noon.

Your family gets a much less crowded Main Street, you can probably ride 2 or 3 headliners right away with little to no waits, and spend more time together as a family in the parks. You will see more and do more and (IMO) have more fun.

 

[bcrook]

Folks it is take a deep breath time

We are trying really hard to keep the thread open and not delete posts/issue infractions.

Please keep your personal direct or thinly disguised attacks for other outlets. On the DIS we expect better.

This is the final public service announcement on this topic

Thank you! I indeed want this thread to remain active but we don't need all the personal attacks!

I agree ... Thanks for the patience Reid, Danny and Brian.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

(love the new signature Robo!)

I don't know... I think we should debate Robo's signature. Is "statistically speaking" really accurate? That's the whole universe/population of Dwarfs as far as Disney is concerned. So these Dwarfs are not a sample meant to represent a larger Dwarf population. It's really "literally speaking", not "statistically speaking"... ...

 

[ghtx]

I don't know... I think we should debate Robo's signature. Is "statistically speaking" really accurate? That's the whole universe/population of Dwarfs as far as Disney is concerned. So these Dwarfs are not a sample meant to represent a larger Dwarf population. It's really "literally speaking", not "statistically speaking"... ...

That's exactly what I was thinking when I first read the signature. Really, what we should say is that our point estimate of the fraction of dwarves who are happy is 1/7. But I would imagine that the standard error would be huge given that N=7.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That's exactly what I was thinking when I first read the signature. Really, what we should say is that our point estimate of the fraction of dwarves who are happy is 1/7. But I would imagine that the standard error would be huge given that N=7.

Bingo!

 

[Disney_Princess83]

I don't know... I think we should debate Robo's signature. Is "statistically speaking" really accurate? That's the whole universe/population of Dwarfs as far as Disney is concerned. So these Dwarfs are not a sample meant to represent a larger Dwarf population. It's really "literally speaking", not "statistically speaking"... ...

I think I pee'd a little at that. But don't worry, I didn't leave the line so I'm not cutting.. wait wrong thread.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think I pee'd a little at that. But don't worry, I didn't leave the line so I'm not cutting.. wait wrong thread.

 

[Coyotesweat]

Hmm.

Since I was last at Disney World in 1988, and Fastpass was introduced in 1999, I don't have any particular attachment to either the old or the new system. I'm going first week of Feb, because I like lower crowds and cooler weather, so hopefully wait times for all but the most popular rideslike Soarin, Test track, TsM, RnR, mountains, will be reasonable.

As I am resort guest, POP, I could get FP or possibly test FP plus.

Advantages I see for each system:

Regular FP
Pro:
Can use more than one FP for popular attractions (Say get FP for rnR and ride toy story, then after riding RnR get one for TOT for later)
Cons: still have to get there early, as only way to avoid horrendous line on headliners is to get there rope drop or get FP, and if fast pass is not gotten very early, ride time may be too late in day to get other FPs for popular rides, or may be unavailable. I work late nights (my schedule is 2:30 pm to 11:30 pm), so will be struggle to be there at 7-8 am my time zone.
Another con: since headliners are usually located in different areas of park, lots of time spent hurrying across park to get fast pass, then to another area to ride standby, then back across park to use FP, then back to get next FP.

Fastpass+
can schedule FP for a convenient time, so for example could schedule Space Mountain for later evening so it's dark, and maybe a popular ride like jungle cruise in busy afternoon hours, and nice spot for Wishes so we don't have to wait as long. Then if planned correctly, on arrival could work our way around park from one land to the next, starting with one longer line ride like BTM, and not so much extra travel time.
No absolute necessity to get there rope drop to ride a headliner that day with minimal wait, though it is still desirable.

Cons: only one headliner FP, so still need to come early if it is busy park day or I have to ride multiple headliners.

For me, since I can easily plan to do only one or two headliners a day (and once is enough) I will probably take FP+ if it is offered to me. Then if I'm just pooped, I don't feel the only way to get hubby to see TSM on our trip (and we are not in position to be frequent visitors) is to drag myself out of bed at crack of dawn. I could roll over, sleep a couple hours, and decide I can live without RnR, and keep my mud afternoon FP+ fit TSM. Would feel more like vacation.

Katie

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't know... I think we should debate Robo's signature. Is "statistically speaking" really accurate? That's the whole universe/population of Dwarfs as far as Disney is concerned. So these Dwarfs are not a sample meant to represent a larger Dwarf population. It's really "literally speaking", not "statistically speaking"... ...

Well, I'm good with the new signature.

As long as he doesn't want the dwarfs fixed.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well, I'm good with the new signature.

As long as he doesn't want the dwarfs fixed.

Fixed?!?!

 

[DougEMG]

I am sorry you dont like the word but it is the root of the problem here.

People got use to touring a certain way since the rollout of FP program years ago.

People were smart to maximize the FP system and take advantage of what Disney allowed with the use of FPs.

Now, that SEEMS to be drastically changing.

Some people think now they should not have to wait in SB lines and never have to wait beyond 15-20 minutes for an attraction no matter what time of the year.

They think that Disney should always make their previous touring style possible and thus this creates an entitlement mentality.

Just listen to people.."if i cant tour the way i always have then i will not be coming back"..."i NEVER wait in lines more than 20 minutes"...etc.

Again, it is a sense of entitlement and one that was frankly enabled by Disney.

I don't think entitlement has anything to do with it.

Disney offers a product for sale. As the customer we decide if we want to purchase that product. It's that simple.

The current problem is that Disney is changing the product that some of us have already booked and paid for, but they haven't said exactly what all the changes are.

 

[bcrook]

I'm curious: what do you NEED to know, personally, to make a GO/NO-GO decision at this point? Not to PLAN your trip, but to decide to pull the trigger -- or not -- on your upcoming $10K in Disney vacations (I think that's what you mentioned at some point)? When are they? What is your drop-dead date to make your decisions? Maybe you'll have more official info before that drop-dead date? And if not -- if no new ACTUAL info -- do you cancel?

I'm wondering all of this because you're not actually getting NEW INFO on here to help make a go/no-go decision -- not until Disney releases REAL info -- you're getting guesses. Besides the official info that you've done an awesome job of summarizing on the first page, you're now left to think things through based on things that Disney MIGHT do... no... that DISers think Disney MIGHT do based upon reading and re-reading the T&C tea leaves. Is that really helpful to making a go/no-go decision? It wouldn't be for me, personally.

I'm going in Feb and in Oct either way. I made that decision based upon Disney's past track record, blah, blah, blah - I've said it all before. I 100% understand the wish to have more info for PLANNING -- who wouldn't love that, even if it's an unreasonable request at this stage in the rollout of a major initiative. But what details/info would you need for the GO/NO-GO decision you seem to keep referring to having to make "soon"? And can you get it from the conjecture here?

These are very good questions. Everything we know right now is directly from Disney. The interviews with chairman, nick Franklin, press releases, the terms and conditions, and wdw FAQS, information found in the app. We have been told by Disney how this is going to work. Now there is a lot of hope that Disney will reconsider. I hope they do.

So I have my Disney plans based on Disney based literature.

My deadlines: do I buy a PAP from DVC - deadline december 31, 2012. Based on known information. I passed on it along with about 20 of my friends. I had full intentions to buy it. Without the PAP, part of my family changed their spring break trip from Disney to South Carolina. Our June trip, we have four in my party and 8 others joining us. Now we are deciding where to use DVC points or stay off site. Will we buy 10 day non expiration ( will they be available later?). DVC reservations need to be made right away! Those don't cancel easily. If we decide to go to US/IoA we might want to stay on site. We ought to look into that right away.

October...we have 11 in my group and another group of us planning together. One couple had to book a airline voucher yesterday! They wanted advice. They decided to split their trip between US and food Wine. Initially they were staying ten days. Plus they have the opportunity to buy discounted tickets through their employer, and we don't know if those will count for FP+. Too much unknown. They are buying US/IoA and they are booking rooms. My wife wants to extend the food and wine trip. We have three timeshares, so we need to decide as soon as we can about where we extend.

This is just a few examples. I did mention before that another group was agonizing over Yes tickets and planning that event. Based on new information, they don't want risk it - they are going to plan B.

I feel good with these decisions based on what we have from Disney so far. This thread has been extremely beneficial.

If Disney changes all of their terms and conditions (and they would have to change quite a bit!) I might have a little regret. But, I am excited about seeing Antarctica now, I didn't even know it existed before.

 

[doconeill]

I don't know... I think we should debate Robo's signature. Is "statistically speaking" really accurate? That's the whole universe/population of Dwarfs as far as Disney is concerned. So these Dwarfs are not a sample meant to represent a larger Dwarf population. It's really "literally speaking", not "statistically speaking"... ...

Well, I can tell you that the Middle-earth dwarfs, who hate to be left out every time someone counts dwarfs, were decidedly MOST UNHAPPY when that dragon was sighted over Fantasyland, and even though there was only that one appearance it was enough for them to burrow their way all the way to Universal...

 

[doconeill]

My deadlines: do I buy a PAP from DVC - deadline jan 31, 2012...

You might want to check on that...I'm sure you meant "2013" in the above...but the deadline was Dec 31st, 2012.

Unless they extended it, and I didn't get anything saying they did.

 

[Robbi]

The possible limitations on AP FastPass+ to 20 per quarter persuaded me not to get an AP (with the recent DVC awesome discount). We are planning a big family trip next November and the possibility that my family would be limited to 20 and our guests would not have that limitation during our 10 day visit was the tipping point. (Without the AP I wont be tempted to do an extra trip anyway.) Our family will be at WDW for 12 days with family joining us later. Now at least 2 of those days will not be at a Disney park since we "only" have 10 day hoppers. Or we could just truncate our trip and save a few dollars.

Seems a huge problem to me if AP holders and possibly DVC members traveling with family will have to skip rides due to FastPass+ limitations.

Our APs come up for renewal in February. I'm waiting for the notice then I will send guest relations an email telling them why I'm not renewing and also that I'm thinking of selling my DVC points. What's the good of having a DVC membership if WDW doesn't my guests and me in the parks?

I don't think entitlement has anything to do with it.

Disney offers a product for sale. As the customer we decide if we want to purchase that product. It's that simple.

The current problem is that Disney is changing the product that some of us have already booked and paid for, but they haven't said exactly what all the changes are.

Disney is and has been bad about letting the public know about how changes will be implemented. It's disconcerting and we're flailing about in the dark making suppositions. They're failing their guests. The accountants are in charge and the magic has been shelved.