FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Cinderumbrella]

I know alot of us are upset about the potential e-ticket limiting (I know I am).

But I actually got to thinking about something else.

Mousermerf mentioned that Disney was SHOCKED at the number of people that picked parades and fireworks (OK, he probably didn't use that exact word, but you catch my drift). And I know we have speculated repeatedly that people only picked those because they could also use regular FP system. (More to come on this in the next paragraph). I am almost wondering now if this option will even be included in FP+. How big of sections would they need to reserve? Seems to me that if they DID include them, that THESE would be the prime FP+ reservations, probably rivaling CRT, BoG & 'Ohana in the speed in which they would sell out...(since the actual # available would theoretically be much, much less than say the # of FPs available for TSMM)


Now, on to our speculation that people only used them for parades and/or fireworks in testing because said testers were not excluded from using regular FP in addition to FP+. A large part of me wants to believe that this is true, and will continue to do so, until someone gives me more details about the survey testers took after participating. I really, really, REALLY want to know if they were asked "Would you use FP+ instead of the current FP?" Because if they were not asked that, and were still allowed to use FP in testing, how are they getting an honest answer about the system?

Is this what the rumored BWI roll out will be? If those folks are automatically opted in (or at least those MYW folks, I guess) I am presuming that they are shut out of FP simply because they won't have paper tickets to put in the machine. So are they the "real testers" of FP+ as it is meant to be? And if there is a huge amount of complaints about the restrictions (not that I am saying there will be), will there be a change before rolling it out to the rest of the resorts...?


Just my thoughts from a grey, somewhat chilly Midwest

 

[WillAustin]

So instead of just figuring out how to get what I want, I get to be grateful when one is bestowed upon me?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for the new Disney.

I'm just trying to see a silver lining. I'm hoping there will be positives that more than outweigh the negatives.

Mousermerf mentioned that Disney was SHOCKED at the number of people that picked parades and fireworks (OK, he probably didn't use that exact word, but you catch my drift). And I know we have speculated repeatedly that people only picked those because they could also use regular FP system. (More to come on this in the next paragraph). I am almost wondering now if this option will even be included in FP+. How big of sections would they need to reserve? Seems to me that if they DID include them, that THESE would be the prime FP+ reservations, probably rivaling CRT, BoG & 'Ohana in the speed in which they would sell out...(since the actual # available would theoretically be much, much less than say the # of FPs available for TSMM)

I agree with you. We'd probably consider using one for a parade, especially if it's in a different tier than the top rides, just so we don't have to stake out a spot for it over an hour ahead of time.

 

[dadddio]

I know alot of us are upset about the potential e-ticket limiting (I know I am).

But I actually got to thinking about something else.

Mousermerf mentioned that Disney was SHOCKED at the number of people that picked parades and fireworks (OK, he probably didn't use that exact word, but you catch my drift). And I know we have speculated repeatedly that people only picked those because they could also use regular FP system. (More to come on this in the next paragraph). I am almost wondering now if this option will even be included in FP+. How big of sections would they need to reserve? Seems to me that if they DID include them, that THESE would be the prime FP+ reservations, probably rivaling CRT, BoG & 'Ohana in the speed in which they would sell out...(since the actual # available would theoretically be much, much less than say the # of FPs available for TSMM)

Now, on to our speculation that people only used them for parades and/or fireworks in testing because said testers were not excluded from using regular FP in addition to FP+. A large part of me wants to believe that this is true, and will continue to do so, until someone gives me more details about the survey testers took after participating. I really, really, REALLY want to know if they were asked "Would you use FP+ instead of the current FP?" Because if they were not asked that, and were still allowed to use FP in testing, how are they getting an honest answer about the system?

Is this what the rumored BWI roll out will be? If those folks are automatically opted in (or at least those MYW folks, I guess) I am presuming that they are shut out of FP simply because they won't have paper tickets to put in the machine. So are they the "real testers" of FP+ as it is meant to be? And if there is a huge amount of complaints about the restrictions (not that I am saying there will be), will there be a change before rolling it out to the rest of the resorts...?

Just my thoughts from a grey, somewhat chilly Midwest

Since they knew who the testers were, they could simply check to see if they did utilize FP during the test period. Then they could cull a group out that ONLY used FP+ and use those people to validate the entire test population or just use the FP+ only group if it was large enough to be statistically relevant.

 

[bcrook]

You appear to be missing the point I've made repeatedly -- unlike so many on here, I don't think that I have enough info to say exactly how it will work out! I have no "inside info" nor any obligation to provide anyone with a "new line of thinking" on this.

I am criticizing those who are CERTAIN this will be horrible, and posit nothing but doomsday scenarios -- and yet keep coming back to Disney for more after their past doomsday predictions fell flat. Does it not get a tad old to you occasionally?

What I do know is that Disney is a well-run company. Not magic, not perfect, but well-run. If they've put $1B into this, I think they'll probably make the thing work -- and the technology provides many possibilities for current and future use, and for tweaks of many sorts over time.

I wrote a business school thesis on Disney Parks. I was astonished at how LITTLE customized marketing (to the individual) that they were actually equipped to do! Disconnected databases, siloed SBUs, double-marketing, etc. Part of our thesis had to include recommendations to Disney. One of mine was to further individualize their marketing -- much like Harrah's had done for years... they track your every action (not every move, exactly -- it's not GPS -- calm down people ) while you're on their property and tailor offers to you while you're still onsite... and after you leave, of course.

So I guess what I expect is for Disney to do at least as well as Harrah's in individualized marketing (now that they finally appear to be going after it full-force), and I expect some pretty cool experiences along the way. TA-DA! There's my big scenario! And because it's Disney, they'll continue personalizing and customizing the experience for guests -- and they can stretch this across their SBUs. They're likely expecting to affect guest flow throughout the parks and other things that will aim to ultimately make the parks more "efficient". What I expect, is probably a bunch of things that I'm not currently expecting! I just don't expect them all to be BAD!

The rest is details -- they'll adjust all sorts of things in implementation -- that's how ANY big rollout of ANYTHING goes. That's why I think it's sIlly to quibble over little details -- that we don't even know will stick, or that we've COMPLETELY MADE UP OVER HERE ON DIS -- at this point.

Disney does more surveys than just about any company out there. ANd might they have determined that there was a "FP problem" to solve? Maybe. But they didn't spend $1B to solve a FP problem. I totally agree with estherhead -- they are looking at a much bigger picture -- they've proven to be that sort of company at inception and over the years.



I can understand that you don't like some of the prelim info they released. Fair enough. The way they fill in the details over time may (or may not!) assuage some of that for you.

As for rolling it out in one park first: that just makes sense. Roll it out in one, iron out the kinks, then roll it out in the others. I don't think that it would make any business sense to roll this thing out worldwide at the outset. I think that it makes sense to start relatively small and then go wide with any major technological initiative.

The tone and thoughtfulness of these posts are much more helpful. I can appreciate this type of discussion. I do think you are providing a great deal of insight in mymagic+. Thank you.

Preliminary models about FP+ usage are important to me because I am planning trips that will cost over $10,000. I still have time to change my plans, so I need as much information as possible as soon as possible. Since this thread has started, I have learned a lot about mymagic+, magicbands, next gen, and FP+. Right now, what I know based on this excellent conversation is that I am not comfortable investing this money. I liked the old restaurant and menu too.

Now do I try new restaurant? One that includes Penquins and icy worlds? I don't know yet, but I don't have time to wait for all the little details. As others have said, and consensus is building. Our previous experience is going to change a bit. And us experienced people are more likely than not going to spend more time in standby lines. I think Dadddio is agreeing there. His hope now is that those standby lines are shorter than before because of the changes. That may happen.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

I'm just trying to see a silver lining. I'm hoping there will be positives that more than outweigh the negatives.

But Disney is "secretive" in their nature. They don't want us to figure out how to "get more." Remember a couple of years ago, when pin codes were being handed out like candy?? It was pretty easily figured out that the magic "trick" back then was to create a new profile, say you have never been, save a vacation offer and VOILA! Pin code for you!!!!!!!!!!! There were threads upon threads just on the codes board here alone (not including other Disney fan sites).

That doesn't really work anymore. Is it because we "figured it out?" or because they just don't want to give out as many pin codes as they did? Who knows...

My point is, even if we figure it out, they are going to snap close that and move it to something else instead to eliminate "gaming the system" (BTW, can we please add that phrase to our list of icky phrases, like "super-user"?)

 

[mom2rtk]

Since they knew who the testers were, they could simply check to see if they did utilize FP during the test period. Then they could cull a group out that ONLY used FP+ and use those people to validate the entire test population or just use the FP+ only group if it was large enough to be statistically relevant.

Which would provide you with data only relevant to a low crowd week. Because that's what they tested.

Many folks did not pull other FPs that week because they didn't need to.

 

[bcrook]

So instead of just figuring out how to get what I want, I get to be grateful when one is bestowed upon me?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for the new Disney.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. And EVERYONE I talk to about this says it sounds like the greatest idea in the world. "You mean I could be eating and I would just get a random FP sent to me for haunted mansion or big thunder? That is coolest thing ever!"

It's coming.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Since they knew who the testers were, they could simply check to see if they did utilize FP during the test period. Then they could cull a group out that ONLY used FP+ and use those people to validate the entire test population or just use the FP+ only group if it was large enough to be statistically relevant.

Are the current FP machines capable of storing that type of data? Or were these people on the honor system to report back (not that I think anyone would lie about using FP).

Again, I am just really, really curious about those survey questions.

 

[mom2rtk]

Are the current FP machines capable of storing that type of data? Or were these people on the honor system to report back (not that I think anyone would lie about using FP).

Again, I am just really, really curious about those survey questions.

I'm sure they had their ticket numbers tied to their FP+ accounts, so pulling actual data was no problem. That ticket was required to pull same-day FP's.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. And EVERYONE I talk to about this it sounds like the greatest idea in the world. "You mean I could eating and I would just get a random FP sent to me for haunted mansion or big thunder? That is coolest thing ever!"

It's coming.

I do think that for this to work, they must have made a calculation that they are fine with losing a certain percentage of their die-hard fan base. We are the ones who will remember what it was like to just go get it on our own, without waiting for it to be "gifted" to us.

That makes me really wonder about any potential DLR conversion though. Their patron mix has far fewer first time visitors. How do you make this work in that sort of a setting?

 

[Disney_Princess83]

I doubt that Disney is really doing this simply because of guests dissatisfaction with the old FP system. It's much more likely that they want to achieve a few things:

1. More planned time in the parks. With specific planned rides and ADR's, people are more encouraged to go into the parks. This will stop many of those last minute decisions to "stay at the resort" or go off property, as there is a reason to go into the parks. By staying at the resort, you will more than likely spend less money they you would in the parks.

2. Get people to spend MORE time at each park. If there is a limit to how many rides and headliners I can FP in one day, than I would need to spend an extra day or more in each park to get the best possible use out of FP+. MK might go from a 2 day park, to a 3, EPCOT goes from a 2 days to 3, AK and HS become a 2 day park each. If 25% of families added 2 days to their holiday, could you imagine the extra revenue? Hotels, park tickets, meals, souvenirs ect

 

[mom2rtk]

I doubt that Disney is really doing this simply because of guests dissatisfaction with the old FP system. It's much more likely that they want to achieve a few things:

1. More planned time in the parks. With specific planned rides and ADR's, people are more encouraged to go into the parks. This will stop many of those last minute decisions to "stay at the resort" or go off property, as there is a reason to go into the parks. By staying at the resort, you will more than likely spend less money they you would in the parks.

2. Get people to spend MORE time at each park. If there is a limit to how many rides and headliners I can FP in one day, than I would need to spend an extra day or more in each park to get the best possible use out of FP+. MK might go from a 2 day park, to a 3, EPCOT goes from a 2 days to 3, AK and HS become a 2 day park each. If 25% of families added 2 days to their holiday, could you imagine the extra revenue? Hotels, park tickets, meals, souvenirs ect

I can totally see that. But how many people have that much more vacation time to add that many days to their vacation?

 

[SPHB ILU]

I usually get 5-6 FastPasses per day when I go. Having only 3 would be killer. I will probably stick with the old system as it sounds like that will still be available?

 

[mom2rtk]

I usually get 5-6 FastPasses per day when I go. Having only 3 would be killer. I will probably stick with the old system as it sounds like that will still be available?

There will be a period of time when the old system is still available, as the new one is phased in. But I think the old one will be gone.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

I can totally see that. But how many people have that much more vacation time to add that many days to their vacation?

Even one extra day would mean a substantial amount of extra revenue to Disney. It won't mean everyone would stay any extra days but even if an extra 15% stayed 1 extra day, that's huge to their bottom line.

I can see some people who were maybe looking at spending a day over to Universal, could only get Space Mountain FP on one particular day and decide against UC in favour of whatever FP's they could get on any given day. I'm not saying we would personally but we've had the experience of being there many times ect.

Also it might help encourage people into the parks on those "lazy" days when they make a last minute decision to hang out at the reosrt. "But we have FP's for the parade/fireworks and Space Mountain today!" Disney wouldn't make much money from people hanging out at their resort (some but they'd make more with people in the parks on average)

 

[mom2rtk]

Even one extra day would mean a substantial amount of extra revenue to Disney. It won't mean everyone would stay any extra days but even if an extra 15% stayed 1 extra day, that's huge to their bottom line.

I can see some people who were maybe looking at spending a day over to Universal, could only get Space Mountain FP on one particular day and decide against UC in favour of whatever FP's they could get on any given day. I'm not saying we would personally but we've had the experience of being there many times ect.

Also it might help encourage people into the parks on those "lazy" days when they make a last minute decision to hang out at the reosrt. "But we have FP's for the parade/fireworks and Space Mountain today!" Disney wouldn't make much money from people hanging out at their resort (some but they'd make more with people in the parks on average)

So to make this work, they will need to open an orthotics shop on Main Street. I can see it now "Get gellin' with the Mickey!". They could do a whole corportat tie-in with Dr. Scholls.

We go go go when we're there and my goal is to take a day off from the parks when we get back. Sounds like Mickey and I are at cross purposes.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

I can totally see that. But how many people have that much more vacation time to add that many days to their vacation?

Remember Mousermerfs statement yesterday or the day before "It costs Disney less for a Day 5 guest then a Day 1 guest because Day 5's do less..." (paraphrased)

Will this still be the case under the speculated FP+ restrictions? It almost sounds like we will be "doing the same" each day of your trip, thus keeping our "cost" constant whether we are on Day 1 or Day 5... (and therefore easier for Disney to estimate their daily costs)

ETA: Sorry, didn't mean to quote this specifically. It was just the "days" part that triggered my thought

 

[dadddio]

Are the current FP machines capable of storing that type of data? Or were these people on the honor system to report back (not that I think anyone would lie about using FP).

Again, I am just really, really curious about those survey questions.

The current FP system definitely knows that you have a FP and when you can get a new one. It's not a stretch to believe that the company stores this data and uses it for a variety of purposes, sort of like an earlier version of FP+.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

So to make this work, they will need to open an orthotics shop on Main Street. I can see it now "Get gellin' with the Mickey!". They could do a whole corportat tie-in with Dr. Scholls.

We go go go when we're there and my goal is to take a day off from the parks when we get back. Sounds like Mickey and I are at cross purposes.

We don't do full days back at the resorts but we tend to sleep in and relax for a few hours in the morning, sometimes not hitting the parks until 1pm-2pm. As a general rule we don't get into the parks until 10am. However we will stay at the parks until they kick us out! If that's 2am (like on our last trip) then we are walking out to the bus/boat at 2:15am

I don't think Disney is entirely worried about their repeat customers under this new system (although we know that they "care" about their AP Holders). Because their repeat customers already know what they want, how they want to tour. They don't need to be "told" by Disney that they need 2-3 days at MK ect.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

The current FP system definitely knows that you have a FP and when you can get a new one. It's not a stretch to believe that the company stores this data and uses it for a variety of purposes, sort of like an earlier version of FP+.

Then they already know that I am a super-user!!



No wonder I don't get pin codes any more....

 

[SaraJayne]

I doubt that Disney is really doing this simply because of guests dissatisfaction with the old FP system. It's much more likely that they want to achieve a few things:

1. More planned time in the parks. With specific planned rides and ADR's, people are more encouraged to go into the parks. This will stop many of those last minute decisions to "stay at the resort" or go off property, as there is a reason to go into the parks. By staying at the resort, you will more than likely spend less money they you would in the parks.

2. Get people to spend MORE time at each park. If there is a limit to how many rides and headliners I can FP in one day, than I would need to spend an extra day or more in each park to get the best possible use out of FP+. MK might go from a 2 day park, to a 3, EPCOT goes from a 2 days to 3, AK and HS become a 2 day park each. If 25% of families added 2 days to their holiday, could you imagine the extra revenue? Hotels, park tickets, meals, souvenirs ect

If number 2 is true, then the target audience for that is foreign visitors. Most Americans can't take an extra 2 days for vacation.