FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Sydnerella]

First - FP enforcement "doom and gloom" did occur UNCFanatik - touring in Spring Break 2012 was far less easy/enjoyable than previously. We rode fewer rides, missed some FP times and generally criss crossed more. And I knew and planned for the change well in advance. That is just a fact - it was not better for us, it was worse.

Second - I think all would agree that attending a party and eating all the cupcakes before the other guests arrive is rude Mousemerf. And it is not remotely the same as attending a paid for venue and soaking up as much as you can early to avoid the lines and maximize your dollars/time/fun. As many guide books and websites have promoted. Heck we do this everywhere - State Fair, we book the first b-day parties of the day at venues, get to the waterpark before it is crowded, etc... This is not rude - it is what works for our family.

Third - It is indeed "OK" or dare I say natural to be pretty disappointed by the thought of riding your favorite rides fewer times, waiting more in longer lines and spending just as much money to enter the parks if not more than you did before FP+. I don't get why there is any disagreement around this fairly obvious point.

If there are no same day FP available, the mid-day and beyond touring for our family will be changed significantly. And, yes, believe it or not, I am actually disappointed by that. Shocking and almost presumptuous of me to be disappointed in such a touring downgrade at a place we love so much.

It's particularly vexing when the premise is to get me to spend even more money than I already do under the guise of trying to "deliver the best possible experience for our guests" When it is crystal clear that they are indeed not going to deliver to me nor the thousands of other "smart park goers" a better experience. Fair to be bummed about that IMO.

I can feel a paranoid comment coming but in a strange way, it's like enforcing socialism to promote increased capitalism.... Mandate fair distribution so Disney can make even more money. Bizzare, probably genious, and likely will be a money-maker for them...

Sydnerella's Mama

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Attractions CMs are already tasked with evacuating the park and caring for guests in the event of terrorist attack. Trust me, this isn't any harder than anything else they have to deal with. They already deal with guests forcing their kids on rides "Oh he's upset about something else..." and drunk guests, guests having sex on rides, people training their kids to stand on their tiptoes, kids running around the park underage and told to lie about their age..

All of that is stuff that attractions hosts deal with and are trained for.

I hear ya' -- and I do know that. And it may not be an issue at all in the end. But I would guess that they will more frequently encounter guests "sharing" MagicBands than most of these other behaviors / events. And people are far less likely to feel that they are really doing something wrong by band-sharing than with getting drunk in the parks or coaching their kids to lie about their age!

Harder to say no to people -- without engendering negative feelings -- when they think what they are doing is minor... "I paid for this trip/MagicBand and I should be able to use it this way... we have 9FP+ for the family today -- why do you care how we distribute them"... not unlike what you see on here wrt FP sharing, etc. now.

I guess just a greater volume of softer-touch stuff to deal with. Might leave a more negative impression than ejecting drunks.

 

[houseful of boys]

I am mostly a lurker, but I have to add to this conversation.

To think that Disney has spent $1 billion dollars and it has taken them 14 years (since fp first started) to figure out how to stop people from "abusing and gaming the system" is ridiculous. If that's the case, that's the poorest business model ever. I can see the execs sitting around the table saying, "What are we going to do about these super users?? They come at the break of dawn, pull fast passes, and then hand them to their children to use later. It's out of control!" And their answer? "Let's spend a billion dollars and change every lock on every resort door. Let's change every turnstile. Let's change every check out counter at every store. That will show them. At least, those rule breakers will be stopped!"

This is about the future. This is about being ahead of the curve with technology. Disney just released the news of an upcoming gaming experience this summer called "Disney Infinity." I have 4 boys under the age of 16 and they have watched the trailers of this game this week several times. Guess what technology this game will use? RFID. And it's possible there will be a theme park compatibility aspect to it. Can you say, "return on investment?" This is gonna cost me a pretty penny, I can already tell.

Disney is following the trend and going "paperless" And they are trying to be ahead of the trend in the "theme park experience."

Do I love it? No. Because, I'm used to the way I have learned to "do Disney" in the past. (I also prefer to read actual books and do not own a kindle). Do I think that 3 fp+ a day and the possibility that that will only include 1 e-ticket ride is ridiculous and will downgrade my experience? yes. But I'm hoping that Disney will address those concerns. My personal feeling is they have designed this new, breaking edge, technology and used "averages" as their model. So if the execs have looked and said, "The average guest is happy if they experience 9 attractions a day. The average guest uses 3 fp a day. The average guest says that their experience would be enhanced if they had reserved seating for the parade" Then they designed their new system with those features. Am I an average guest? no. I am hoping that this will be tweaked as it rolls out, and will make it more friendly to my personal touring style. But time will tell.

This is the future. And we will have growing pains. And I will adapt. But to say this whole thing came about to "fix fp abuses" is ridiculous.

 

[mousermerf]

I hear ya' -- and I do know that. And it may not be an issue at all in the end. But I would guess that they will more frequently encounter guests "sharing" MagicBands than most of these other behaviors / events. And people are far less likely to feel that they are really doing something wrong by band-sharing than with getting drunk in the parks or coaching their kids to lie about their age!

Harder to say no to people -- without engendering negative feelings -- when they think what they are doing is minor... "I paid for this trip/MagicBand and I should be able to use it this way... we have 9FP+ for the family today -- why do you care how we distribute them"... not unlike what you see on here wrt FP sharing, etc. now.

I guess just a greater volume of softer-touch stuff to deal with. Might leave a more negative impression than ejecting drunks.

You underestimate the average Ops CM's propensity to dislike guests and enjoying "punishing" them for misbehavior when possible.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

To clarify, you feel selling FPs to be a "very gray area"? Does that mean you think others should be doing it or were right to do so in the past?

Do the words "non transferable" that are on the FP have no meaning to you? Do you think the rules do not apply to you?

Again, it is abuse whether you agree with it or not, you are using something improperly. Disney does not want or need a secondary distribution of FPs and this secondary distribution of FPs has caused guest dissatisfaction among those who were not able to get FPs.

I think the reason I think it is gray is because 1 person coming into the park to get FP's to sell can't be getting THAT many FPs. I don't think it as right as much as I can't see that it is a huge problem. They are only 1 person and if they can't get another FP until the first one can be used, where are they selling this FP? Inside the park? If this person is selling their one FP how is that causing such a huge problem with the FP line. Again, I'm not saying I think it is right. I just don't see how someone could do this with ease for the person selling or buying.

Not right...just can't be happing that often. I think there is much more sharing within families and maybe passing along some pixie dust when you can't use your pass.

 

[freediverdude]

To clarify, you feel selling FPs to be a "very gray area"? Does that mean you think others should be doing it or were right to do so in the past?

Do the words "non transferable" that are on the FP have no meaning to you? Do you think the rules do not apply to you?

Again, it is abuse whether you agree with it or not, you are using something improperly. Disney does not want or need a secondary distribution of FPs and this secondary distribution of FPs has caused guest dissatisfaction among those who were not able to get FPs.

Do people really sell fastpasses?? Other than just to a family member or friend, I would think that would be difficult. They're only good the same day, so really no eBay or Craigslist market, so the only way would be to go around asking strangers at the parks like a ticket scalper. I don't see how very many of them could end up sold for money like that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You underestimate the average Ops CM's propensity to dislike guests and enjoying "punishing" them for misbehavior when possible.

Nope. I am talking about their ability to do this in a MAGICAL way that doesn't ultimately chip away in small ways at Disney's brand.

 

[mcd2745]

About the same as Coke spent on New Coke. Researched much the same way. Used a small sample, didn't use much control, then rolled out and said everyone would love it. I don't think the bands or name will really disappear, but the notion of people preplanning their touring style 60, or even 10 days out(not done in any of the testing) will die a quick death, and even doing it just before entering a park won't be popular. I would bet that by June 2014, fastpass will look more like it does today without the paper tickets than what most are talking about right now.

I have a hard time believing that. Just look at dining, where you have dining reservations 180 days in advance and there are a lot of people who would like to see it extended even further to 1 year. In fact, if you suggest that they should go the other way and reduce that to say 45 or 60 days....many react like you are trying to take away their first-born. There are a lot of "uber-planners" when it comes to WDW who can't pre-plan enough of their trips.

 

[bigAWL]

I haven't read the last 5 pages yet.. Wow you guys post quickly..


However a few questions kept me up last night...

So as a parent I have to manage my DD account..
I'll picking her FP+ choice, if we do FP+ right?

If that's the case, can she get a FP+ to M&G mickey, and since I don't get in pics or even hug mickey.. Can I use my FP+ on a ride she can not go on?

What about rider swop? Does this mean now one parent and older child gets a FP+ in their name.. Asks for a RS pass then next parent goes through the FP line with the older child again? At least this way we can extend our FP to 4 headliners instead of 2...

An then what about travel agents?
I know when booking our cruise, we signed A piece a paper... Stating only they could change the ressie.. This included booking EVERYTHING!!
So the travel agent got my DD brith date wrong and When I call disney., they told me that they were not allowed to talk to me!!!

I don't know of its like this for WDW.. Do the travel agents make ADRs of guest? If they do then I think they will be making the FP+ too...

!!!Something different to talk about!!!

Rider swap is an interesting question I haven't seen discussed yet. I was assuming that there would be no problem and the simple rider switch card would work the same. My assumption is that both parents (and any older children) would be requried to use a FP+ ressie on the ride (if no one was going to be waiting in standby, that is).

But what if mom and dad reserved FP+ times for Everest and returned at the end of their return window. Mom goes in the FP+ line while Dad waits with Jr. What happens when mom comes out and Dad now is trying to get in after his FP+ window has expired? I suppose that Mom and Dad could both tap their MagicBands before Mom enters. Then Dad would be allowed to enter later as long as he had the rider switch card?

As for the first question... Yes, I believe it will be set up to allow you to reserve completely different FP+ experiences for each member of your family if that is what you want.

 

[doconeill]

Do people really sell fastpasses?? Other than just to a family member or friend, I would think that would be difficult. They're only good the same day, so really no eBay or Craigslist market, so the only way would be to go around asking strangers at the parks like a ticket scalper. I don't see how very many of them could end up sold for money like that.

Oh, it was pretty big business.

It used to be easy to print fake FPs...then Disney added features to the tickets themselves to put an end to that.

It used to be easy to pass a FP from a previous day - and then Disney make the date bigger and put it with the time to make it easier for the CMs to verify.

And there was a "company" that somehow managed to get FPs for given times for that day and deliver them to you at your resort - before the park opened. Must have been some inside job...I think they eventually disappeared as well.

FP+ eliminates all of that. Too bad about the collateral damage...

 

[mousermerf]

Nope. I am talking about their ability to do this in a MAGICAL way that doesn't ultimately chip away in small ways at Disney's brand.

You do realize in CM-speak "Have a Magical Day!" is code for "Go *bleep* yourself!" right..?

They've been doing it for.. well.. forever and it's considered by most here to be just as magical as ever.

 

[houseful of boys]

You do realize in CM-speak "Have a Magical Day!" is code for "Go *bleep* yourself!" right..?

They've been doing it for.. well.. forever and it's considered by most here to be just as magical as ever.

I find this post offensive and hope the moderators will deal with appropriately.

 

[mousermerf]

I find this post offensive and hope the moderators will deal with appropriately.

Because you find the truth offensive...?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You do realize in CM-speak "Have a Magical Day!" is code for "Go *bleep* yourself!" right..?

They've been doing it for.. well.. forever and it's considered by most here to be just as magical as ever.

Now you're sounding a tad too grumpy. Maybe this thread is getting to you...

Again -- there's saying the words, then there's leaving the guests "content" -- the former doesn't ensure the latter. It's just probably MORE annoying guests that CMs need to deal with on a daily basis... MORE confrontations... that wears away at most people and leaks out in their performance -- true with any customer service job.

Hey -- if I had to bet on any company to be able to make corrections if enforcement becomes a problem, it would be Disney. I'm one of the ones on here who actually LIKES Disney - for real - and wants it to be run like a REAL business because that is ultimately how the guest experience is maximized. I'm not against any of this -- just interested to see how this particular aspect plays out.

 

[mousermerf]

Now you're sounding a tad too grumpy. Maybe this thread is getting to you...

Again -- there's saying the words, then there's leaving the guests "content" -- the former doesn't ensure the latter. It's just probably MORE annoying guests that CMs need to deal with on a daily basis... MORE confrontations... that wears away at most people and leaks out in their performance -- true with any customer service job.

Hey -- if I had to bet on any company to be able to make corrections if enforcement becomes a problem, it would be Disney. I'm one of the ones on here who actually LIKES Disney - for real - and wants it to be run like a REAL business because that is ultimately how the guest experience is maximized. I'm not against any of this -- just interested to see how this particular aspect plays out.

It's not grumpy, I was just stating the truth. Morale is not what it appears to be on the outside and that's a very carefully crafted facade.

 

[mom2rtk]

You underestimate the average Ops CM's propensity to dislike guests and enjoying "punishing" them for misbehavior when possible.

You do realize in CM-speak "Have a Magical Day!" is code for "Go *bleep* yourself!" right..?

They've been doing it for.. well.. forever and it's considered by most here to be just as magical as ever.

Fess up mousemerf.

When you worked at Disney, you were in charge of the Dream Squad, right?

You just seem to exude magic.

 

[Sydnerella]

Fess up mousemerf.

When you worked at Disney, you were in charge of the Dream Squad, right?

You just seem to exude magic.

rotfl:

Eureka!! You have figured her/him out...

Unreal!

 

[cheesemouse]

!!!Something different to talk about!!!

Rider swap is an interesting question I haven't seen discussed yet. I was assuming that there would be no problem and the simple rider switch card would work the same. My assumption is that both parents (and any older children) would be requried to use a FP+ ressie on the ride (if no one was going to be waiting in standby, that is).

But what if mom and dad reserved FP+ times for Everest and returned at the end of their return window. Mom goes in the FP+ line while Dad waits with Jr. What happens when mom comes out and Dad now is trying to get in after his FP+ window has expired? I suppose that Mom and Dad could both tap their MagicBands before Mom enters. Then Dad would be allowed to enter later as long as he had the rider switch card?

As for the first question... Yes, I believe it will be set up to allow you to reserve completely different FP+ experiences for each member of your family if that is what you want.

I too am wondering how rider swap is going to work. Presumably they'll still have some sort of card/ticket/etc to hand the person who is not riding the 1st time??? Currently, the rider swap FP that are given out aren't timed and are good for any part of the day, correct? Or maybe then can electronically add a FP to the magic bands that is good for all day?

Our last trip we only had 2 kids, both of which were over 40". YAY! But now we have a new little one and will once again be doing the rider swap thing in March and this whole FP+ thing and not knowing if/when/how it will work is starting to stress me out!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It's not grumpy, I was just stating the truth. Morale is not what it appears to be on the outside and that's a very carefully crafted facade.

Customer service - of ANY kind - is VERY difficult! No one in such a job feels like what they're dealing with all day is particularly MAGICAL. But to suggest morale is any lower at Disney than in other other customer service job, and to call it a "carefully crafted facade" (pejoratively, yes?) seems to take it a bit far, to me.

To a degree, customer service ANYWHERE is about crafting a facade! Do I think the CM finds it MAGICAL to eject a drunk guest - nope! But they project it as much as humanly possible. Disney still does this better than any customer service operation I'm aware of. And that's not because they have low morale.

I will now self-impose a gag order on this subject, since I think it's gotten way OT.

To recap: I'm still waiting for more details on FP+... and actually kinda' like the idea from what I know so far, and think it sounds like good business.

 

[doconeill]

I too am wondering how rider swap is going to work. Presumably they'll still have some sort of card/ticket/etc to hand the person who is not riding the 1st time??? Currently, the rider swap FP that are given out aren't timed and are good for any part of the day, correct? Or maybe then can electronically add a FP to the magic bands that is good for all day?

Our last trip we only had 2 kids, both of which were over 40". YAY! But now we have a new little one and will once again be doing the rider swap thing in March and this whole FP+ thing and not knowing if/when/how it will work is starting to stress me out!

For now, I expect "business as usual" for Rider Switch passes. They probably still have plenty of Fastpass stock they'll need to burn through - remember when they converted to the current Fastpass stock at the kiosks, the Rider Switch passes were still printed backstage on the old printers using the generic Fastpass stock. They'll probably do something similar, or at least keep one kiosk around for it.

Technologically, there is no reason they couldn't somehow do it with the MagicBands/RFID cards. The CM verifies the need, then the stay behind parent swipes their RFID, and it grants them an admission to the FP+ line any time later that day (and maybe after a certain minimum time - cut down on abuse?) How they'd handle the "+2" I'm not sure, but they could just allow two more with them - the FP+ kiosk would need to indicate it was a Rider Switch.