FP+, the wait times are in the design. I think.

[Rhiannona]

I suggested going to another park over Epcot on a rainy day because Epcot is the "go to" rainy day park! AK is a ghost town when it rains and a lot of the animals LOVE the rain. Except avoid Everest when it is raining really hard, that rain hurts on the drop!

 

[2Tiggies]

I suggested going to another park over Epcot on a rainy day because Epcot is the "go to" rainy day park! AK is a ghost town when it rains and a lot of the animals LOVE the rain. Except avoid Everest when it is raining really hard, that rain hurts on the drop!

In theory what you say makes perfect sense. Last trip it was raining at when we were at Epcot and I told DD that one park I would NOT want to be in when the sky opened was AK. Lo and behold, that same week we experienced a thunderstorm and torrential downpour at AK and there was nowhere to go for cover. I'm assuming it's part of the theming but every little piece of roof we could wedge ourselves under was leaking As far as quiet parks in the rain though, you are right on the money with this one. The people vanished, as if by magic. I''m on the fence as to whether I prefer the crowds to the rain for AK though.

 

[MrInfinity]

And since I've been browsing the US threads, I'm noticing a lot more people there who say they normally only stay at Disney but they're planning US for next year -- just like us. The lines at US weren't crazy horrible this year during Pres Week -- they were pretty much the same as wdw had the week before that. But with the early entry and EP I think we'll have a better time there than at Disney.

I wonder if the people who only go to wdw are angrier than others simply because they pretty much have all of their eggs in one basket -- they don't feel like they have alternatives. We're also looking in to going to DLP if we skip the competition some year, since Europe isn't much farther away for us.

If anyone wants to go to US, I always say go! It's not offensive to Disney. There's nothing wrong w it, and Iger isn't saying "darn we lost another one".

Go. Have fun. Disney World will still be there when you see it's not the same.

And... it's *not* the same. It just isn't. You know it isn't. For everything that US offers, you are on disboards for a reason. Not uniboards. If you were to go onto a Universal chat board right now, you'd probly be thinking "darn I'd rather be talking Disney!" US is a great park that everyone absolutely should try... but ppl LOVE Disney World.

BTW we're doing split LL/US/DW in 2015. Nuttin wrong w that!

 

[magicbob]

The more I think about it the more it seems to me that the problem is not just the technology being slow, and the problem is not just too few FP+ being allotted per person. The real problem, and the one that FP+ seems to be designed to create and not ameliorate, is of spreading people among the park more evenly.

If all that FP+ did was to smooth out the clumps of people, so that the park is more evenly distributed throughout the day, then lines for most tier 2 rides would get longer for more of the day, and it would become a harder system to exploit overall. You can’t “go to where they ain’t” if they’re everywhere. All the time.

We had strategies in the past that would maximize our fun while others would wait for attractions. In essence, our strategies were based on data that would predict where most people would be, and when. Where and when there would be lulls so we could ride shorter lines, and then use FP for rides that would rarely be short waits (PP, BTMRR, SM).

By spreading people out in the park, and it seems that this is one major effect of FP+, we can no longer accurately predict where people will be, and when.

Our past data are garbage, and our new data won’t be promising.

If we lump this together with longer FP+ lines because the readers are slow, we create a problem that can never be solved by adding more FP+.

More uniform crowds in the park seems to be a design attribute that Disney wants. This alone can create more uniformly long lines for attractions that used to be walk-ons.

Sadly, I think the era of riding PoTC 8 times in a row may be over. Just a thought.

As a note, I have tried the new system. I was there 2/22-3/1. I was unpleasantly surprised with how much longer the SB lines were. It wasn't the end of the world, but I rode fewer rides than I’d expected from past trips.

yes, they know what they're doing. that doesn't mean that what they are doing is good for you or me.

creating more uniformity of crowds in the park is good for them. it's also probably good for people who came to the park and felt the couldn't get on anything.

it's bad for people who tried to strategize their park visit around being in places where others weren't to minimize ride waits.

this is harder with the new system. a lot of people keep saying: 'Have faith, Disney will fix this.' All I'm saying is that this is possibly the fix, but for a different problem.
(sent from my phone. sorry about the grammar)

They may know what they're doing from a mathematical standpoint with their computer modeling, but they may not fully appreciate the vagaries of human nature. If we assume that FP+ is designed to redistribute crowds and we also assume that crowd levels remain constant, then by lessening the line at headlined attractions, they necessarily have to increase them elsewhere. But this assumes that people would prefer 60 minute waits at headliners and 30-40 minute waits at secondary attractions instead of 80 minute waits at headliners and walk-on to 15 minute waits at secondary attractions. By the end of the day, the former might have you waiting in line for a shorter aggregate amount of time, but the average guest might perceive the latter to be better. When the guest goes home to tell their friends about the trip, they might say one of two things. Either:

-It was great. The lines for Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain were really long. But that was to be expected. The waits at the other rides were no problem at all; or
-It was disappointing. We waited in long lines for everything.

If a typical guest perceives 30 minute lines to be just beyond their tolerance level, yet all lines are 30+ minutes, then Disney will have failed the "human nature" test by flattening out all the lines to this level even if by doing so it shrunk the lines at headliners and shrunk the aggregate amount of time spent in line each day. Personally, I would prefer to see long lines at headliners (even insanely long ones) and short lines elsewhere as long as there is a coping strategy that allows me to avoid the insane line. FP- gave me that. But Disney thinks that I would prefer shorter lines at headliners with the trade-off being that I cannot escape certain of those lines due to tiering. First of all, Disney is wrong in that belief so it isn't fair to jump to the conclusion that they are always right. Secondly, I haven't seen any evidence that their changes have dramatically shortened anything. Shrinking a 90 minute line down to 80 minutes is gaining little if now, rides that used to be walk on are now hitting 30-40 minutes in length.

All excellent points, especially the bolded.

Except for the fact that Disney knows you're full of crap, and you'll come anyway. (and if not you, someone else) ONLY if people actually stop coming would they add value or lower prices, and I see no signs of people not coming...just complaining about it.

Another contender for Disney's new slogan:

Walt Disney World... we know you're coming anyway because you're FULL OF CRAP!

 

[mom2rtk]

Except for the fact that Disney knows you're full of crap, and you'll come anyway. (and if not you, someone else) ONLY if people actually stop coming would they add value or lower prices, and I see no signs of people not coming...just complaining about it.

Did you expect people to cancel trips they already have scheduled? Lose out on air fare and down payments? If there is fallout, it will happen over time., not 2 months after this thing goes live. That's just the nature of a Disney vacation....... it's planned far in advance. And honestly, the people not happy with this change don't WANT to stop going to Disney, so they are likely to give it one more try before bailing. But I do think some will stop.

And the argument about someone else just taking your place is only important if parks and resorts are at 100% capacity. Disney wants each of us PLUS those bodies you say would replace us.

That's not to say that the masses won't adjust and accept this lesser product. But I do think the jury is very much still out. I've decided to hold my own deliberations over in Anaheim. Yes, I know that Disney still gets my money, and that's fine. I have to do what is best for me and my family. But I'll be watching closely what happens on the other coast. I'd love to go back. I'm just not willing to be their guinea pig.

 

[EMode]

Except for the fact that Disney knows you're full of crap, and you'll come anyway. (and if not you, someone else) ONLY if people actually stop coming would they add value or lower prices, and I see no signs of people not coming...just complaining about it.

We're not going this year, we are trying US for the first time instead and it is solely due to FP+. I though about taking a day to go to MK but have decided against doing that all together. I won't say I'll never go back to WDW, but if this "test" turns out to be how it is from now on I most likely won't be back. Disney may think we're all full of crap, but some of us aren't.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

We're not going this year, we are trying US for the first time instead and it is solely due to FP+. I though about taking a day to go to MK but have decided against doing that all together. I won't say I'll never go back to WDW, but if this "test" turns out to be how it is from now on I most likely won't be back. Disney may think we're all full of crap, but some of us aren't.

It's interesting that you're going to US in order to... avoid waiting in line? Fat chance. Its way worse at US (even if you stay on their resort and get "front of the line" pass.)

 

[disneyAndi14]

We go to Disney every year and one of the days is for US. I can't imagine spending more than one day at US, you can see everything in one day for us, maybe two days for some but we live far from FL so we always stay 7-8 nights and I just couldn't see being at US or SW for all our nights. I do love US for sure but the true magic for my DD and me is DW fast pass+ and magic bands included I guess! I am not going to dwell on it. I am going to have fun and enjoy the magic with my DD. We leave on 4/5/14 this year so excited!

 

[2Tiggies]

Did you expect people to cancel trips they already have scheduled? Lose out on air fare and down payments? If there is fallout, it will happen over time., not 2 months after this thing goes live. That's just the nature of a Disney vacation....... it's planned far in advance. And honestly, the people not happy with this change don't WANT to stop going to Disney, so they are likely to give it one more try before bailing. But I do think some will stop.

This is exactly the situation I am in. For work reasons, I have to put my vacation days in well in advance. So my trip was booked nearly a year ago, and more than a full year from our check in date. I booked flights, an airport hotel because one of our connections leaves at stupid o clock, and various other things that are not refundable and cannot be amended. When I booked, the vast majority of these changes were very much speculation still and no testing had begun.

While there are aspects of the changes that I think have a lot of potential and will eventually be true enhancements, I feel trapped and cheated that I have this really expensive trip that I am locked into and it's completely different to the one I signed up for. I stand to lose thousands if I cancel and certainly enough that we would have to forgo our vacation entirely this year so that is not a viable option for me.

The effects of all these changes on the guests have not even begun to show. Not enough time has passed. I have no intention of making rash statements in the moment declaring I'm never going back or I hate Disney or anything along those lines - time will tell; but we are looking at alternatives for next year's vacation for the first time since 2007 and for us, that speaks volumes.

 

[EMode]

It's interesting that you're going to US in order to... avoid waiting in line? Fat chance. Its way worse at US (even if you stay on their resort and get "front of the line" pass.)

I don't expect to avoid lines entirely, where did I say that? The fact is I'm not willing to pay WDW $5K to be their guinea pig and spend a good portion of my day in longer lines than I have waited in the past. For a little more than half that price at US I'll get to enjoy FOTL access for more than 3 rides a day, and I can even enjoy the same ride FOTL over and over again if I want. Not something I can do at WDW now.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue about, you seem upset that I'm choosing US over WDW. You said Disney knows we are full of crap because we'll go there anyway, I just one who is proving that statement wrong.

 

[papertraveller]

We are just back after a one-week stay -- we were onsite for one night, got the MB, and then off-site. We have annual passes.

We got caught in a glitch after the first day, which cancelled all of our bookings. We noticed this early, and rebooked with ease.

We arrived at rope drop at MK on our first day, and hit four attractions before needing to use a FP. Once the crowds arrived, doing anything standby was a non-starter. In the past, we might have caught Pirates or Jungle Cruise -- not anymore.

At Studios, we arrived later than we normally would have. Used our FastPasses, ate lunch and left. The experience at Epcot and AK was similar: once we used our FastPasses, we departed. The standby lines at all attractions were simply too long for us.

The night before departure day, we decided to try and slip in a few hours at Epcot. At 5 p.m. I was able to get Test Track for 9:30 the next morning -- it certainly would have been far more stressful to ride it the old way (race to attraction, ride standby or grab FP). We did TT, then Sum of All Thrills (15 minute wait) and then rode Mission Space (10 minute wait). But again, by the time we were done the crowds were thick and the standby times were high.

We wondered a lot about the management of the lines. Are there more FastPasses? Are the crowds really being distributed around the park? Are people going on rides just because they have a FP, when before they might not have bothered?

For us, our conclusion is that if you want to ride anything more than once, rope drop is imperative. And since we visit once or twice a year, we don't need to stick around all day in the park. Once our FastPasses are used up, we'll depart.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

This is exactly the situation I am in. For work reasons, I have to put my vacation days in well in advance. So my trip was booked nearly a year ago, and more than a full year from our check in date. I booked flights, an airport hotel because one of our connections leaves at stupid o clock, and various other things that are not refundable and cannot be amended. When I booked, the vast majority of these changes were very much speculation still and no testing had begun.

While there are aspects of the changes that I think have a lot of potential and will eventually be true enhancements, I feel trapped and cheated that I have this really expensive trip that I am locked into and it's completely different to the one I signed up for. I stand to lose thousands if I cancel and certainly enough that we would have to forgo our vacation entirely this year so that is not a viable option for me.

The effects of all these changes on the guests have not even begun to show. Not enough time has passed. I have no intention of making rash statements in the moment declaring I'm never going back or I hate Disney or anything along those lines - time will tell; but we are looking at alternatives for next year's vacation for the first time since 2007 and for us, that speaks volumes.

Same here! I booked WDW for Easter more than a year prior because the BC WV CL rooms sell out. I also booked Christmas 2014 but I can cancel that. I also am reconsidering our Memorial Weekend Trip. I can always move down to Miami. If I had know that FP+ would be limited I never would have bought the AP vouchers.

If they don't change the system somehow, that and I can't ride what I love what the heck is the point?

How about going to US for a couple of days of your trip?

I don't expect to avoid lines entirely, where did I say that? The fact is I'm not willing to pay WDW $5K to be their guinea pig and spend a good portion of my day in longer lines than I have waited in the past. For a little more than half that price at US I'll get to enjoy FOTL access for more than 3 rides a day, and I can even enjoy the same ride FOTL over and over again if I want. Not something I can do at WDW now.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue about, you seem upset that I'm choosing US over WDW. You said Disney knows we are full of crap because we'll go there anyway, I just one who is proving that statement wrong.

Yep. I too, am not full of crap. I split my August trip. from BC to BC-Portofino Bay which is a beautiful hotel.

I'm flying SW so I can move my flights somewhere else for Memorial Day. Yes, I have PAP's but if I can't do what I want and avoid huge crowds. They are worth zero anyway. I'd be so upset if we had bought DVC when BC Villa's first opened. I begged but my DH was worried that the kids would outgrow it and we'd be stuck.

 

[mom2rtk]

At Studios, we arrived later than we normally would have. Used our FastPasses, ate lunch and left. The experience at Epcot and AK was similar: once we used our FastPasses, we departed. The standby lines at all attractions were simply too long for us.

I keep hearing people say that's what they are doing. And maybe some like the fact that they can get in, do the few rides they have FPs for...... and get out.

But I really have to wonder how long people are going to think that this gives them enough value for the cost of tickets. For AP holders, I can see it being fine. But for someone who pays $300-$400 for their week's ticket and maybe only has that one day in that particular park?

 

[fitzperry]

I keep hearing people say that's what they are doing. And maybe some like the fact that they can get in, do the few rides they have FPs for...... and get out. But I really have to wonder how long people are going to think that this gives them enough value for the cost of tickets. For AP holders, I can see it being fine. But for someone who pays $300-$400 for their week's ticket and maybe only has that one day in that particular park?

Good points. I can imagine this working ok for AP holders and others who visit very frequently, but we go to Disney once every 2-4 years. We expect more bang for our buck and before FP+ we knew how to get it.

It seems to me that MDX and FP+ are intended to create a more all-inclusive resort-type experience where the parks are maybe a less significant part of it than in the past, but that's not what I'm looking for at Disney. Maybe it will sell with newer guests and ultimately be a success but it's not for us. Despite the expense, I'd always considered Disney to be a good value for us. But, largely because of FP+ Our Dec. 2013 trip really wasn't. I enjoy the Disney resorts--especially the Poly--but when I'm looking for a resort vacation I don't go to Orlando. If they're going to design an experience that encourages me to spend more time at the resorts and less at the parks, they're going to have to upgrade that resort experience significantly without a big price increase. Not holding my breath for that!

I'm sometimes shocked by how many forum participants can be so critical of Disney's management, but so few forum participants spend time and money in non-Disney theme parks. I'm a fan of all theme parks and most amusement parks.

I'm a fan of Disney but not a fan of theme parks in general, and I suspect that's true of a large number of Disney guests. We've only ventured over to US once for HP and will probably go back there after Diagon Alley opens but, with that exception, Disney is the only reason we visit Orlando. Based on our 10 day experience last December I suspect we'll do a short trip sometime to see the new HP additions and maybe a couple of days at Disney rather than the long trips we've done in the past.

 

[Planogirl]

It's interesting that you're going to US in order to... avoid waiting in line? Fat chance. Its way worse at US (even if you stay on their resort and get "front of the line" pass.)

That's totally untrue.

 

[Planogirl]

What I keep seeing posted in threads like this makes me believe that it will be wise to book FP+ for favorite rides even if they had no lines in the past. I'm thinking of rides like the Haunted Mansion and Spaceship Earth. I'm watching the reported wait times but I'm thinking that in busy times at least that it would be wise to go for those rides. If enough people do that then that would logically cause standby lines to take longer in such rides.

It's interesting because it appears that our solution to this potential problem will make the problem worse.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

It's interesting that you're going to US in order to... avoid waiting in line? Fat chance. Its way worse at US (even if you stay on their resort and get "front of the line" pass.)

Well, in a few weeks, I will be at MK on a Friday and Islands of Adventure on the next Friday, both "Level 7" crowd weeks. In both cases, I'm staying onsite in the cheapest room for my family of five. At Disney, we're arriving just in time to be included in the 25% off deal; otherwise, the US hotel would have only cost $60 more for the night and we can walk to the park. I have a detailed plan for MK with my three FP+ and rides to hit at rope drop. We're skipping BTMRR and Space Mtn. At IoA, we're going to Ollivander's and Forbidden Journey during early entry (7 a.m.) and then winging it the rest of the day with our resort express passes. I plan to ride every coaster at least once. I will let you know at which park I spend the most time in line.

 

[papertraveller]

I keep hearing people say that's what they are doing. And maybe some like the fact that they can get in, do the few rides they have FPs for...... and get out.

But I really have to wonder how long people are going to think that this gives them enough value for the cost of tickets. For AP holders, I can see it being fine. But for someone who pays $300-$400 for their week's ticket and maybe only has that one day in that particular park?

I totally agree. If this was my one big trip to Disney, it wouldn't be satisfactory at all.

Last year we brought a large family group with us, many of them first timers. I kept saying that I would hate the thought of trying to do that again with the new system.

 

[magicbob]

Well, in a few weeks, I will be at MK on a Friday and Islands of Adventure on the next Friday, both "Level 7" crowd weeks. In both cases, I'm staying onsite in the cheapest room for my family of five. At Disney, we're arriving just in time to be included in the 25% off deal; otherwise, the US hotel would have only cost $60 more for the night and we can walk to the park. I have a detailed plan for MK with my three FP+ and rides to hit at rope drop. We're skipping BTMRR and Space Mtn. At IoA, we're going to Ollivander's and Forbidden Journey during early entry (7 a.m.) and then winging it the rest of the day with our resort express passes. I plan to ride every coaster at least once. I will let you know at which park I spend the most time in line.

Well, skipping BTMRR and SM will skew the results, but I'd still bet a Mickey Bar that you'll spend less time in line at IoA using early entry to WWoHP and FOTL express pass the rest of the day compared to three FP+ and standby for everything else at MK.

 

[mesaboy2]

That's totally untrue.