FP+. great for us newbies

[Laketravis]

your thinly disguised insults are as transparent as your shtick.

That wasn't intended as an insult at all. It was a reference to my post from last night in which I made a reference to not being able to sleep.

For someone who claims to not be a part of "that crowd", you are certainly quick to throw accusations and "insults" around to those you think don't agree with you.

You opened this thread on the premise of "FP+, great for us newbies" and then contradict yourself many times in your own thread.

You seem a bit, well....paranoid.

 

[Laketravis]

I think some people are still confused about what I am suggesting.

We have two distinct groups, or camps in this thread (ignoring the fence sitters waiting for more evidence before coming to an opinion)

One group prefers legacy fast pass

Another group prefers fp+

When one group comes along and says fp+ amounts to herding, they are using a common debate tactic which when the proper light is shined, amounts to nothing but a logical fallacy.

There is nothing about one system or the other that would lead an honest person to say one method is herding and a other isn’t.

No. What they are doing is attempting to poison the well. “Hey, you can like the new fp+, but just know, you are supporting herding, or a herd like mentality.”

That is nonsensical. I see right through it too. Humans don’t like to be implicated in such a manner. People like to think they are unique, even when they aren’t.

It is also why one particular poster with an obvious agenda quickly introduced the term sheeple. The implication is beyond obvious. Those advocating for the fp+ system are sheep. Again, a herd like mentality meant to poison the well for those advocating the new method.

Case in point, I don't see any purpose to your above missive other than to agitate.

 

[DividedSky]

It was a reference to my post from last night in which I made a reference to not being able to sleep.

yes, a reference to last nights insult about how all the sheeple are going to make you count sheep

utterly transparent.

I think David St Hubbins and Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap said it best: ... 'It's Such a Thin Line Between Clever and Stupid'

 

[Laketravis]

yes, a reference to last nights insult about how all the sheeple are going to make you count sheep

utterly transparent.

I think David St Hubbins and Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap said it best: ... 'It's Such a Thin Line Between Clever and Stupid'

You're wrong. I made the comment about "sheeple" immediately after you made this (possibly insulting to some) comment:

So all the people in a rope drop. you know what they kind of look like to me? a herd, all butted up against a rope designed to control them.

Because that is exactly what your comment made me think of. It truly was as innocent as that. My ensuing comment about counting sheep was directly related to my earlier comment. No sinister motive there, either.

You're picking fights with windmills.

 

[mummabear]

I'm sure you did have it better, but it was at the expense of someone else. That is how a zero sum game plays out.

It was not at the expense of others if they were not willing to use the system. Everyone had as fair of a chance with the old system as they do with the new.
If people chose not to read the information handed to them in park to understand the system then that was their choice and I don't actually think these people will do much better from the new system.
If peoples touring style meant they would rather stand in a 90 minute line than pull a FP and have to walk back to the ride in a couple of hours than that was again their choice but they can't cry foul that others were using the system Disney put in place to shorten your wait times to well shorten their wait times!

 

[mummabear]

It's not really abusing it- but Disney decided that they wanted to change the way it worked - likely because a small group of people got a disproportionate amount of fast passes- is this our fault? No- but it makes sense for Disney to try to accommodate non- FP runners.

You didn't have to use a runner or rope drop to get more than 3 FPs a day....

 

[DividedSky]

It was not at the expense of others if they were not willing to use the system.

Yes, it was at the expense of others.

That the ride quotient amounts to a zero sum game is axiomatic.

 

[btk2333]

You didn't have to use a runner or rope drop to get more than 3 FPs a day....

No you didn't- I've done it many times before, there were days when we got 10+ legacy FPs. That doesn't change anything- Disney has chosen to make changes to the system- they're not going back now- maybe they up it to 6 FP+ if you're staying deluxe, maybe not- we don't know. But the new system is not any more or less "fair" than the old system was- they've simply changed the rules. It requires different planning but its not the apocalypse like so many people are making it out to be.

 

[mummabear]

Yes, it was at the expense of others.

That the ride quotient amounts to a zero sum game is axiomatic.

No their own choices lead them to stand in line longer and ride fewer rides, not my pulling a FP I was entitled to pull.
There are many aspects of FP+ I like but the ride rationing is simply Disney attempting to accommodate the lowest common dominator, however if they cannot work out the legacy system I don't like their chances making sense of the new one (let alone in a way that is most beneficial to them)

 

[DividedSky]

No their own choices lead them to stand in line longer and ride fewer rides, not my pulling a FP I was entitled to pull.
There are many aspects of FP+ I like but the ride rationing is simply Disney attempting to accommodate the lowest common dominator, however if they cannot work out the legacy system I don't like their chances making sense of the new one (let alone in a way that is most beneficial to them)

their choices effect you and your choices effect them.

this isn't about blame, it is about the fact that a zero sum relationship exists.

 

[btk2333]

No their own choices lead them to stand in line longer and ride fewer rides, not my pulling a FP I was entitled to pull.
There are many aspects of FP+ I like but the ride rationing is simply Disney attempting to accommodate the lowest common dominator, however if they cannot work out the legacy system I don't like their chances making sense of the new one (let alone in a way that is most beneficial to them)

It was the other guest's choice not to show up- however whenever you do something at WDW, whether it is making a dining ADR, grabbing a FP or riding a ride there is someone else who cannot do that experience. That doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong or that the existing system was unfair. However, Disney likely does want to "spread the wealth" in order to please the greatest number of people (they're kind of utilitarian since they're a company that wants to please large numbers of people)

I maintain that the savvy traveler will still be able to take advantage of the positive parts of MDE and FP+ and still end up having a more productive trip than the average guest. It just means learning a new set of rules

 

[kmarie99]

I used to be able to pull more than 3 per day but can someone please tell me how you could get 10+ per day without rope drop? (or running) I am not saying it cannot be done but I cannot get the math to work.

 

[mummabear]

It was the other guest's choice not to show up- however whenever you do something at WDW, whether it is making a dining ADR, grabbing a FP or riding a ride there is someone else who cannot do that experience. That doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong or that the existing system was unfair. However, Disney likely does want to "spread the wealth" in order to please the greatest number of people (they're kind of utilitarian since they're a company that wants to please large numbers of people)

I maintain that the savvy traveler will still be able to take advantage of the positive parts of MDE and FP+ and still end up having a more productive trip than the average guest. It just means learning a new set of rules

That is the way of the entire world, every seat you take on a bus is a seat someone else cannot use, every loaf of bread is one another cannot purchase.
Will I make better use of FP+ than a newbie-likely but will my experience be a lesser one than previous-likely

 

[btk2333]

I used to be able to pull more than 3 per day but can someone please tell me how you could get 10+ per day without rope drop? I am not saying it cannot be done but I cannot get the math to work.

MK was the easiest to do so.

Dumbo, Barnstormer, and Mickey Mouse meet and greet were not linked to the rest of the system

that makes 3 that you can get whenever

You could then cherry pick the rides you wanted to use legacy FP- it required some planning and being willing to criss cross the park but it was certainly possible.

We generally stopped FP hording once they started enforcing return times. We used to get there at RD run around and get FPs for everything while riding with short lines. Then return around 2:00-4:00 and use our FP when the lines were longest- I've been told many times that this made me a horrible person so don't bother pointing that out now.

All that being said, I've actually enjoyed my trips with FP+ moreso than my trips when we would pull dozens of FP.

 

[btk2333]

That is the way of the entire world, every seat you take on a bus is a seat someone else cannot use, every loaf of bread is one another cannot purchase.
Will I make better use of FP+ than a newbie-likely but will my experience be a lesser one than previous-likely

Absolutely- I'm not blaming you- I did the same thing. But I certainly understand why Disney wants you to get 10 seats a day and the first time newbie get 5 seats per day. You will have to decide if your new experience is lesser enough that you speak with your wallet and go somewhere else. Personally it is not for me- I have actually enjoyed my FP+ trips moreso than my legacy trips.

 

[wisblue]

I used to be able to pull more than 3 per day but can someone please tell me how you could get 10+ per day without rope drop? (or running) I am not saying it cannot be done but I cannot get the math to work.

I can see how it could be done if you start right at opening, get another one as soon as possible after the window from the previous one opens up, and keep repeating the process. If you throw in the "disconnected" FPs at MK you could really pile on the total. But, it would be a lot easier to do it at a less busy time and/or if you pull FPs for less popular attractions for which the return times aren't out that far.

At Epcot or DHS on a busy day you weren't getting more than 2-3 FPs for the top two attractions because it doesn't take long for the FP return times to get to two hours out and then run out completely.

 

[kmarie99]

Thanks guys, I forgot about the 'disconnected' ones Like I said before I was not saying it could not be done just that I could not figure it out.

 

[DividedSky]

That is the way of the entire world, every seat you take on a bus is a seat someone else cannot use, every loaf of bread is one another cannot purchase.
Will I make better use of FP+ than a newbie-likely but will my experience be a lesser one than previous-likely

a loaf of bread is not as good example of a zero sum game.

I mean, sure a loaf of bread and a multi million dollar ride are both commodities, but the economic barrier to entry is so drastically different, I find the analogy lacking.

 

[PrettyFlower2]

Reading this thread gave me a headache.

 

[mummabear]

a loaf of bread is not as good example of a zero sum game.

I mean, sure a loaf of bread and a multi million dollar ride are both commodities, but the economic barrier to entry is so drastically different, I find the analogy lacking.

They are exactly the same in the way that when one person has it another cannot, the store only has x number of loafs of bread a day. One persons choice effects the other.
However I don't see the store saying well you can only buy 1 loaf of bread because it is not fair to the person who is visiting my store for the first time to find that I am out of bread.