FP+. great for us newbies

[Joe Dirt 1972]

The problem for me will come about when we go at Christmas time with a 75 year old mother, we will be waiting in longer lines regardless of what anyone thinks.
Reason I say this is not every one took advantage of the old fastpass system before Either the return times didn't work for them or didn't know what fastpass was. I believe maybe 50% of the people used the old system.

Where now more people will use the online fastpass+ system to book just as they do for dinner reservations as they will believe they wont get on the rides without it no different then we all know if you book your dinner reservations there is non chance of getting one last minute

I believe more people will use the fast pass+ and will force more people in the stand bye lines. Especially if non resort quests can only book their fast pass+ in the parks and not online.

So two problems arise: If I book fast pass+ and don't make it to the park or to the ride then that fastpass is gone forever. Where before I could just give the fastpass off to someone else to use.

The other thing it is a cash grab because more people that are staying offsite will now feel they need to stay at a Disney resort so the can book their fastpass+ online. I know I would for the extra money ( change from staying at the holiday Inn to a Disney resort)to ensure my kids get on the good rides by booking my fastpass+ 60 days ahead.

Its really smart on Disney's part I guarantee you will see a drop in the offsite hotels booking over the next couple years as more people feel they need to stay at Disney resorts.

Next thing I see in the future will be you can only book dinner reservations online ahead of time if you are staying at a Disney resort. Non resort quest will only be able to book day of if available.

 

[Lucky4me]

I'm sure you did have it better, but it was at the expense of someone else. That is how a zero sum game plays out.

Yep and the shell game Disney is playing is why you feel you are getting a good experience. lol At some point if they keep cramming bodies into parks already at capacity and if you become a repeat visitor, you'll feel the same as I do.

 

[DividedSky]

Yep and the shell game Disney is playing is why you feel you are getting a good experience. lol At some point if they keep cramming bodies into parks already at capacity and if you become a repeat visitor, you'll feel the same as I do.

It is why I say a new person will get a better experience then they would on the old system.

If the system amounts to a fraudulent shell game, why do you return?

 

[btk2333]

How is it abusing the system to use it as it was intended and within the rules?

It's not really abusing it- but Disney decided that they wanted to change the way it worked - likely because a small group of people got a disproportionate amount of fast passes- is this our fault? No- but it makes sense for Disney to try to accommodate non- FP runners.

 

[btk2333]

I'm hoping the fast pass plus will change into a pay for fotl, something more like Universal has. I don't know why Disney has to be so sneaky about moving it to that point, which you can see they definitely are. If it was available right now, we sure would go to Disney in March.

I would say it kind of is a paid perk- currently you can only use it to book in advance if you are staying on site. The people staying on site are paying a premium and are given an extra benefit. (Universal's FOTL pass is 'free' for people staying in their resorts as well)

 

[Lucky4me]

It is why I say a new person will get a better experience then they would on the old system.

If the system amounts to a fraudulent shell game, why do you return?

If you had read my whole reply on this thread, you would know I am not. At least not until they add some new parks/lands or even headliner attractions.

 

[btk2333]

the simple math disagrees.

the rides are moving the same number of visitors through as it always did.

What will happen, is the newer visitors will see a slight increase in the total rides they can fit into the park hours and the savy people will see a sizable decrease in the number of rides.

my only correction is that savvy people will not necessarily see a sizable decrease - the savvy people know how to do research and make sure the system is working for them the best. They may see a slight decrease but the hyperbole that people use saying that they used to ride 20 rides and now will only be able to ride 5 is completely ridiculous. Smart touring will still allow the savvy people to ride a similar number of attractions- at least based on my experiences with FP+

 

[lugnut33]

I'm well within my 60 day window and have not made any FP+ appointments because I don't feel like planning. I spent so much time for our Thanksgiving week trip I'm just dreading all the planning again. A lot of people will faint when they hear this, but I've also made NO dining reservations.

 

[btk2333]

Yep and the shell game Disney is playing is why you feel you are getting a good experience. lol At some point if they keep cramming bodies into parks already at capacity and if you become a repeat visitor, you'll feel the same as I do.

FYI not all repeat visitors feel the same as you do- I've been to WDW over 20 times and have made three trips with FP+ and have another one scheduled. I acknowledge that the system is different- but it has its pros and cons just like legacy FP. My wife and I do not hate FP+ and still love the parks as much as we did 10 years ago. Our friends who are DVC members feel the same way about FP+. We love the parks regardless of FP+, legacy, etc.

This is one of the reasons I keep posting in these threads- so many people like to think they speak for everyone when they're really just posting opinions.

 

[DividedSky]

my only correction is that savvy people will not necessarily see a sizable decrease - the savvy people know how to do research and make sure the system is working for them the best. They may see a slight decrease but the hyperbole that people use saying that they used to ride 20 rides and now will only be able to ride 5 is completely ridiculous. Smart touring will still allow the savvy people to ride a similar number of attractions- at least based on my experiences with FP+

by sizeable, I mean some measurable figure above whatever "slight" amounts to.

new people are still going to make decisions that impact their overall rides in a negative way, and savy people will still benefit from that.

 

[Lucky4me]

I would say it kind of is a paid perk- currently you can only use it to book in advance if you are staying on site. The people staying on site are paying a premium and are given an extra benefit. (Universal's FOTL pass is 'free' for people staying in their resorts as well)

Exactly and I would have no problem paying a premium at Disney for front of the line if I wasn't staying onsite. I've used the express pass staying offsite at Universal a few times, it was great.

The problem is at this point, Disney has many more guests-on and off site, than they can comfortably fit into their parks.
I'm saying peak seasons here. I do believe you can still manage if you hit rope drop or near closing in off season.
Since off season isn't a possibility for us this year, we'll skip Disney. Probably even Universal, haven't decided that yet.

 

[wisblue]

by sizeable, I mean some measurable figure above whatever "slight" amounts to.

new people are still going to make decisions that impact their overall rides in a negative way, and savy people will still benefit from that.

You may also have to distinguish between savvy people who used FP a lot, and savvy people who didn't rely much on FPs, generally by arriving at the parks early and doing a lot of things before standby lines got too long.

This group may actually find their overall ride experience increase as a result of FP+ as they tour in the morning as usual and then take advantage of their FP+ reservations to do things later in the day that they couldn't have done otherwise.

That was our experience during our recent trip from 12/27-1/1.

And, yes, I have heard all of the arguments about how this strategy won't work as well as time goes on because morning crowds and early standby lines will get much larger. That may or may not happen, but until it actually does I am not going to change my approach.

 

[gwmort]

We are frequent visitors (20+ trips over last 40 years) but never used more than 3 fastpasses a day that I can recall, we basically only used them for the big headliner or two we wanted to hit (like TSMM in HS, or Space in MK).

Last trip I did some running for them to kill time while the kids were in M&G lines with wife. I enjoyed being useful and having them when we got there, but spending chunks of my time running to and fro without being with my family is no better than standing in line together with my family imo.

For us, the vacation is more about being together and doing things we enjoy than riding a certain number of rides (virtually all of which we have ridden many times before).

I haven't had a chance to use the fp+ system yet but I like everything I have read about it and look forward to using it in the future.

Just as an example on Thanksgiving Day 2012 we rode TSMM, had a kid in JTA, spent time in one man's dream, saw muppets 3d, rode star tours, switched parks to MK, rode the people mover, buzz lightyear, space mountain, pirates of the caribbean, plated SotMK, had dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern, rode Thunder Mountain, did Story time with Belle, Dumbo, Met Goofy and Donald in the Big Top, saw some of the electric parade, and walked on Splash Mountain with no line (about 11:30 pm). Only fps were for TSMM and Space (I recognize this wouldn't be possible with fp+). My point is though that it has never required a lot of fps to do a lot at Disney, even on the most crowded days.

It was a long day, from pre-rope drop at HS to closing at MK, but it was awesome.

 

[Laketravis]

So all the people in a rope drop. you know what they kind of look like to me? a herd, all butted up against a rope designed to control them.

See post #43.

 

[Laketravis]

Sorry that I'm just now catching up, it was a long night. Couldn't stop counting sheep for some reason......

[herding] is a great term for one group to belittle another group, but as far as definitions go, I find it pretty far off

Actually, the word "Herding" is used quite often as an adjective to discuss behavioral models as they pertain to operational management.

Here's a quote from one such reference, "Models of Herding Behavior in Operations Management":

When new innovative products and services are introduced into the market, the consumers often do not have complete information about the quality of such products or services. Even though they collect information from several sources, their private information about the product is generally noisy and inaccurate. Under such cases, the consumers complement their private information with some available public information based on what /other/ consumers chose. For example, customers might look at the queue length information in choosing a restaurant/sports bar, or examine available sales information while choosing a recently released book, or observe stock-out information in buying a new electronic product. In these cases, the consumers might ignore their own private information and could decide to wait in the longer queue, or to purchase a more popular book, or to wait for a stocked-out electronic product. Modeling consumer behavior with such positive externalities causes the overall demand to be significantly different from traditionally modeled consumer demand. Not surprisingly, such consumer decision processes also significantly impact firms’ capacity decisions: Long queues or stock-outs might signal better quality and thus generate more demand.

I think some of those comments are intriguing - such as long lines being a signal to others of better quality and actually contributing to increased demand.

Hmmmmm......... long lines can cause long lines. Imagine that. Much like shee......oh, nevermind

 

[Laketravis]

And, yes, I have heard all of the arguments about how this strategy won't work as well as time goes on because morning crowds and early standby lines will get much larger. That may or may not happen, but until it actually does I am not going to change my approach.

They aren't arguments as much as they are theories, I think there is a difference between the two. But I also found that to be a big advantage on our recent trip as well - getting to one park early (and usually the favored park of the day per external recommendations like EasyWDW) and taking advantage of any short Standby line conditions, then moving to another park that day (which was usually NOT a recommended park for that day) and utilizing the FP reservations we had made.

I have to admit that on some mornings we did use the ability to pull paper FP's with our KTTW cards when the SB lines started to get longer in the morning. For example, there were 3 of us and my DS8 had this innate urge to ride EE over and over again. So when we would get there first thing in the morning, he would keep riding as long as the Standby line was 10 minutes or less. Meanwhile, I pulled 3 FP's and let him use those when the line grew to 30 minutes or more. Net result is he was able to fulfill his 8 year old instinctual need to ride EE six or seven times. And we still had FP+ for TSM/RRnR/Tot that afternoon.

Now, conditions have obviously changed since even that short time ago, and some of what I described is no longer possible. Which is why we are all here, right? Because conditions change, and what worked last month may no longer work next month.

 

[Planogirl]

I really don't understand why people are bashing people for using the old fast pass system. I have been to WDW 4 times since the fast pass system was put in. Before going I did my homework understood how to get the most fast passes and maximise my families joy in the parks. But for all the people that did what myself and many others have done to get the most fast passes these methods and tricks of the trades were available to every guest so we lets be fair

Also one thing that I like about the old fast pass system was if you couldn't use the fast pass or someone else couldn't use theirs it was a matter of handing it off to someone else and they could enjoy the ride. There were times where something came up and we couldn't use our passes and we gave them to people with their kids standing in line and it brought a smile to their faces.

It is herding and more planning the only thing I ever planned or booked was my restaurants because we were on the dining plan , but this year we are not getting the dining plan because it cut in the day too much because your whole day revolved around your dinner reservation. Same as the new fast pass + will cause more headaches because you are tied to that time at least with the old fast pass system if you couldn't make it or were on another ride you could just had it off to someone else.

Why spend the money on a park hopper?

I'm with you. It seems like some people constantly argue that the old system was unfair because some people would get to the parks early and be the first to get fastpasses. As far as I know, anyone could get to the parks early. Also, some people claim that people often used too many fastpasses. As someone who probably only used 3 or 4 on a good day, I don't see how many is too many.

 

[DividedSky]

Sorry that I'm just now catching up, it was a long night. Couldn't stop counting sheep for some reason.

your thinly disguised insults are as transparent as your shtick.

 

[btk2333]

I'm with you. It seems like some people constantly argue that the old system was unfair because some people would get to the parks early and be the first to get fastpasses. As far as I know, anyone could get to the parks early. Also, some people claim that people often used too many fastpasses. As someone who probably only used 3 or 4 on a good day, I don't see how many is too many.

I don't think the old system was unfair. It was completely fair- however, Disney has decided that they want to change the system. I believe the reason is that they would prefer to have a larger number of visitors use 3 fast passes versus having a small number of people use 7-8 fast passes.

I loved the old system- there were days when my wife and our friends would literally just try to get as many FPs as possible (at MK you could get quite a bit!). I understand Disney trying to spread the FP wealth to people who don't get to the parks early. It is still a 'fair' system just in a different way.

 

[DividedSky]

I think some people are still confused about what I am suggesting.

We have two distinct groups, or camps in this thread (ignoring the fence sitters waiting for more evidence before coming to an opinion)

One group prefers legacy fast pass

Another group prefers fp+

When one group comes along and says fp+ amounts to herding, they are using a common debate tactic which when the proper light is shined, amounts to nothing but a logical fallacy.

There is nothing about one system or the other that would lead an honest person to say one method is herding and a other isn’t.

No. What they are doing is attempting to poison the well. “Hey, you can like the new fp+, but just know, you are supporting herding, or a herd like mentality.”

That is nonsensical. I see right through it too. Humans don’t like to be implicated in such a manner. People like to think they are unique, even when they aren’t.

It is also why one particular poster with an obvious agenda quickly introduced the term sheeple. The implication is beyond obvious. Those advocating for the fp+ system are sheep. Again, a herd like mentality meant to poison the well for those advocating the new method.