FP--- Disney has become too regimented

[Jennasis]

The FD offer also requires a 6 night/7 day stay.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Maybe this makes me a jerk, but I love hearing people say they will never vacation at Disney again. I hope thats true. It just means fewer people to compete with the rides I want to ride and the places I want to eat.

If I had a dollar for every time I've read that.

 

[cjparker0110]

I can't remember where I read it on here so I couldn't quote it, but I read someone was saying they believe Disney is prioritizing first timers and once in a lifetime guests over repeat guests. I disagree. It may seem like that to many who have seen changes that they don't like. But let's stop and think about this in a logical manner:

1. How many first timers understand the need for 180+ ADRs?

2. How many first timers understand the value of actually staying on property?

3. How many first timers really think FP+ HAS to be booked at midnight 60 days out?

4. How many first timers will be able to select their FP+ and ADRs and efficiently navigate the parks within those time constraints without being so stressed that they won't want to quit?

I honestly believe that right now a first timer (or once in a lifetime) visitor is more likely to be scared off than at any time before. I think most first timers are clueless with how all of this works. Even if they have an idea, they don't understand the needs or strategies involved. And unless they are OCD about things and frantically study their park maps while planning, their reservations and FP will make them run all over the place at preselected times...making them miss out on the relaxation and enjoyment that should come from a WDW vacation.

 

[goodgodmrsmolly]

Using the old FP system we never waited in a line over 20 minutes in several years of WDW trips while easily riding everything we wanted, even during the busiest weeks. We can't do that in one day anymore. It's not increased crowds that have caused that change, it's being limited to 3 tiered FPs.

I am sure it is a variety of reasons. I don't think it is all crowds but they do factor in. I can't remember how many people I told about FP in the past. Most people thought you had to pay, or didn't understand the system and so didn't use it. Now, everyone knows about them and uses them. that is a big difference. Plus many attractions have half the boarding for exclusively FP+ users, where in the past it wasn't like that as not as many people were using them. It is not going back, so I am not arguing that, just saying for me, the experience has been lessened. Maybe for enough others it is better so Disney is happy. IDK all that detail. I just know what I experience and when I can't ride POTC without a FP most days, when in the past I could almost always get on at some point in the day with minimal wait, there is something wrong.

 

[Doug M]

I am sure it is a variety of reasons. I don't think it is all crowds but they do factor in. I can't remember how many people I told about FP in the past. Most people thought you had to pay, or didn't understand the system and so didn't use it. Now, everyone knows about them and uses them. that is a big difference. Plus many attractions have half the boarding for exclusively FP+ users, where in the past it wasn't like that as not as many people were using them. It is not going back, so I am not arguing that, just saying for me, the experience has been lessened. Maybe for enough others it is better so Disney is happy. IDK all that detail. I just know what I experience and when I can't ride POTC without a FP most days, when in the past I could almost always get on at some point in the day with minimal wait, there is something wrong.

Spot on, not only are lines longer because of more people in the parks, more are using the fastpasses, this isnt just because it is FP+, if more used legacy FP the same would likely be happening. I think for most FP+ is easier to do and of course Disney has marketed it way more than legacy.

 

[mom2rtk]

The FD offer also requires a 6 night/7 day stay.

They quote a 6 day 7 night example but I think it's just a 3 night minimum.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Again, it's not a required hopper purchase- it's hopper or water parks n more.

I'm guessing the idea is to get guests off the main attractions. the new system works better if guests don't focus on headliners.

Hopping helps WDW because guests happily spend a considerable amount of time outside the park, especially if the hop includes a bus. (as opposed to the short HS to Epcot walk)

Putting more guests in the water parks also keeps them off Space Mtn. Especially if they go via bus go to their resort, and THEN go to a park.

That's another good reason to do away with no expire tickets. I have a non-expire ticket that has all the park days used, but still has water park days. I could not see us going to a water park/disneyquest/mini-golf more than one day in a week. Certainly not every day as tickets permit.(though guests are not required to do both a theme park+ waterpark on any given day).

Disney also benefits if guests opt to have their TS meal in a location that is far from their home resort. We noticed when we stay at the values and do free dining, we spend much of our vacation just transporting ourselves to meals (Esp if w attempt an afternoon trip to our hotel).

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm guessing the idea is to get guests off the main attractions. the new system works better if guests don't focus on headliners.

Hopping helps WDW because guests happily spend a considerable amount of time outside the park, especially if the hop includes a bus. (as opposed to the short HS to Epcot walk)

Putting more guests in the water parks also keeps them off Space Mtn. Especially if they go via bus go to their resort, and THEN go to a park.

That's another good reason to do away with no expire tickets. I have a non-expire ticket that has all the park days used, but still has water park days. I could not see us going to a water park/disneyquest/mini-golf more than one day in a week. Certainly not every day as tickets permit.(though guests are not required to do both a theme park+ waterpark on any given day).

Disney also benefits if guests opt to have their TS meal in a location that is far from their home resort. We noticed when we stay at the values and do free dining, we spend much of our vacation just transporting ourselves to meals (Esp if w attempt an afternoon trip to our hotel).

I follow what you're saying and had the same thought...... which is precisely why we never hop at WDW or buy the water park option.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm guessing the idea is to get guests off the main attractions. the new system works better if guests don't focus on headliners.

Any system works better if guests don't focus on the most popular rides.

Hopping helps WDW because guests happily spend a considerable amount of time outside the park, especially if the hop includes a bus. (as opposed to the short HS to Epcot walk)

But I'm not out to beat WDW at it's game. I'm out to have a wonderful vacation. The fact it helps Disney that I choose to do something that I want to do is a win for both of us. It's not us vs them. And park hopping doesn't mean just going from one park to another. We don't do that ever. We go back to our resort and enjoy what they have to offer. We don't go to WDW just to ride rides.

I'm pretty sure they're requiring additional purchases because guests are willing to pay more than they did before. It's really that simple to me.

Putting more guests in the water parks also keeps them off Space Mtn. Especially if they go via bus go to their resort, and THEN go to a park.

Of course it does. The more things Disney offers, the more dispersed the crowds are. Isn't that the mantra of the anti-fp+ crowd? Give us more stuff?

My bet is, once people try the hopper, a lot of them will realize what they've missed out on and want to purchase in the future. For those that claim it really is just a park hopper required offer- I'm seeing an awful lot of questions being posted about the water parks btw.

 

[JanaDee]

The FD offer also requires a 6 night/7 day stay.

It requires a 3 night minimum, 14 night maximum.

 

[Jennasis]

It requires a 3 night minimum, 14 night maximum.

Thanks! I thought it seemed odd when it said the 6 night thing on the Dreams link...but luckily looks like they'll still let you book short stays.

 

[ServerisBusy]

It requires a 3 night minimum, 14 night maximum.

And I've gotten it to preserve the offer with as little as 2-day tickets.

So if a family of 4 has AP's, books a 10 night stay and only has to buy 2-day tickets with hoppers to get free dining they save almost $800 over the 10 day ticket price. And if they don't use the 2-day tickets at all they could apply the full value of them towards their AP renewal.

Is that correct? If so, would it then be correct to consider the $1,030 spent on the four 2-day tickets with hoppers as simply a down-payment on next year's AP's?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I agree with you, but why offer a discount at all if they aren't having trouble getting bookings?

Or is it that they are having trouble getting bookings AT FULL RACK RATE, and covered even more of their food costs by requiring an additional $64 option?

Wow, when you think about it, they may actually be making more money with this "discount". A room at full price plus $64 more per person in return for what I'm thinking is probably less than $10 per person per day in raw food costs.

Smart move, Mickey.

I suppose one way to see it is to see a required additional cost of adding park hoppers...but guests aren't buying JUST DDP and hopping- they are ALSO buying a hotel and park ticket package.

To really appreciate the addition of hopping- one has to price the total whole package difference.

What was the cost last year of a room only booking the same week? (other weeks this year)
What is the added cost of park tickets this year?
Added cost of food?

Disney buffets are not a fixed price, they fluctuate. Add just $6.25 per day in food prices ( or + hotel) = the cost of hopping.

Looking at WDW hotel rates for August:
(current room only offer vs. approx. same offer we got last year)
Contemporary - same as last year on the same room.
Wilderness Lodge is up $28 per night from 2 years ago.
The Grand Floridian is up $92-$100 per day from last year (construction ? last year)
I'm pretty sure Pop is exactly the same as last year. The current rate w/discount is 85(pool)/92 (preferred).

If I look at the very end of August, when offers overlap: (6 nights) (2 adlts, 1 jr, 1 child age3-9)
Pop with end of summer discount +plus water park sand dining $3123
w/free dining $2418
Pop- base tickets, no dining - $1999
Quick Serve DDP, base tickets- $2850
So for those dates, it is possible to get non hoppers +discount at Pop, but Free Dining is still the better deal - by $700.


(The offsite hotel and car rental rates I am seeing for August are the same as last year! Go Figure! )

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Any system works better if guests don't focus on the most popular rides.

My bet is, once people try the hopper, a lot of them will realize what they've missed out on and want to purchase in the future. For those that claim it really is just a park hopper required offer- I'm seeing an awful lot of questions being posted about the water parks btw.

I was agreeing with the first sentence! My theory all along is that FP+ is about better crowd dispersal.

Sure, some folks only do WDW one way, one resort, year after year, but I think the majority of repeat visitors have tried hopping at some point. Personally, I've done WDW both ways multiple times. I've probably tried ever combo possible: hopping, non-hopping, onsite, offsite, DDP, no DDP, water parks, eating in the room, Swan, concierge level, almost all the rest of Florida (minus the panhandle), flying, driving, summer, winter, spring, fall, holidays, low seasons....

My post wasn't about you, though I was actually kind of agreeing with you. I'm thinking about the big picture. Sure some folks (like you) always hopped or went to water parks- that's beside the point. If you added it anyhow, then this year's deal = no difference to you.

It only = a difference for the folks who would not have added it. In which case, this thread has been asking WHY add it to this year's offer?
And (in my prior post) is the change really = reducing the 'deal' by $50? (or some kind of price increase) as some have said. (Does anyone pay rack rates at WDW during the free dining weeks?)

It is interesting to me, that though my comparisons are very incomplete- pricing hasn't changed much in the last year for the latter half of August.

One change that does make a considerable difference is doing away with no expire tickets, especially where the water park plus is concerned.