FP+ Details Are Out!

I just spent about two hours reading through this thread, and am almost as cornfused as I was when I started! ...correction...MORE cornfused! :crazy2:

...Suffice though, WDW has certainly made me rethink some things about 2014-and maybe beyond.

Who wouldn't be confused reading this thread! I feel for you.

Are you sure, though, that DISNEY has made you rethink future trips and not DISBOARDS making you rethink?

Is it really the official info released, combined with the fact that nothing is set in stone (ie aspects remain unknown/undefined) and they are actively and thoroughly collecting guest feedback during testing -- is THAT really what has you worried? Because that's all Disney has done.

The rest is conjecture on here -- lots of "fear of change" response, IMO.

I don't like the possibility that the existing FP system might be phased out completely. My little bit of conjecture is that after guest feedback, that'll be adjusted (some form of same day FP added to the band as an eg). Fingers crossed, and I'm waiting for ACTUAL INFO before predicting WDW's demise -- or at least that of my vacation. :)

I take the hyperbole here with a MASSIVE grain of salt, and sift for real info and occasional productive conversations on this topic.

The DIS has been AWESOME for us in planning trips over 9 years -- but some of this negativity is off the charts -- especially when based on something that DOES NOT YET EXIST. As always, JMO. :)

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Dooom and Glooom! Giggle. Dooom and Gloooom!

Wow! everyone just thinks the most horrible things - when the last testing phase seemed pretty positive. I think the new system will be a hybrid of the old with the new, and the tests show they allowed regular fast pass to work with new fast pass plus...but for some reason everyone thinks that old system will be going away with no ability to get same day FP or reserve ANY DAY you want ahead of time. all the tests have shown they will work together but not under the old system name, Fast Pass....

I know there have been rumors going around...but till it is actually live, we do not know if anything in the 'terms and conditions' is exactly what is going to happen because it's not live yet. There won't be paper FP tickets, but you will still be able to book same day reserved ride times - how do i know this? bcause we have seen this in the tests!

People were able to make adjustments on the fly, same day. How do you know you won't be able to book same day FP+?

HOW do you know this is fact 100% when all the tests show people have been able to make same day adjustments? Please deal in FACTS people!

I don't know. You don't know. We don't know, but of course everyone is yelling 'the sky is falling!' because we hate change.

Yea it might stink, it might be great, it might mean we change how we tour. But I sincerely doubt it will be like any one of us imagine.

Please stop coming up with doom and gloom imaginary stories of horror - it is confusing and makes people think these are actual facts.

Oh No! We don't know what is going to happen so instead of just waiting to hear the facts I am going to run in circles and yell 'The Sky is Falling!"

The positive things I'm hearing about during the test give me hope. Please please please work with facts rather then imagined moments of horror.
 
The positive things I'm hearing about during the test give me hope. Please please please work with facts rather then imagined moments of horror.

I feel the same way about the testing and accounts of testers -- sounds positive to me! Sounds like we're simpatico on a lot of this... :)

However, if we restrict ourselves to working with facts on DISboards, threads will only be an average of 5 pages long (yes - a statistic I just totally made up!). ;)

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Your post just made me think of another issue...

at 180 days out I plan my dining. I am there 4 days and can only get BoG reservations on Day 2. So of course I take it. Then it is time for rides at 60 days out...and I can only get TSM on Day 2.

So now I am either in 200 bucks for park hoppers for my family of 4, take my chance at RD on our day we have planned at the Studios except I booked my kids on a pirate cruise that morning so we will have to cancel that because there aren't any other ones they can go on...or tell my daughter that she can't go to BoG so her brother can ride TSM or tell my son he can't ride so his sister can eat at BoG!

Seriously, its like Universal sent in a group of employees to run Disney's development on this....

Maybe that is part of their plan. More and more people buying PHs so they can get to their selected FP rides just means more $ for them.

I'm not really a fan of the FP+ system but that is because I'm not a big planner. I don't like the idea of having to pick what rides at what time we will go on 2 months before we get there so I probably wont even bother and just go with the flow. Besides, maybe the more uber-planners that use them will make the stand-by lines shorter for the rest of us :)
 

but for some reason everyone thinks that old system will be going away with no ability to get same day FP or reserve ANY DAY you want ahead of time. all the tests have shown they will work together but not under the old system name, Fast Pass....

The reason is that the numbers just don't add up. The assumption that each FP+ is just going to be the same as one person with an old FP, and it will be the same sized group of people getting the FP+s as before is flawed. This is going to change things far more than just moving the paper FPs to a wristband and letting some guests book them in advance.

As for any negativity, I could put forward that the latest test didn't have attraction tiers because of the concerns many people have already raised over the previous tests that all had tiers? I'd say there is a possibility that's the case. Discussion, skepticism, and concerns are good. Any feedback they get may cause things to change further. I'd rather let them know what I don't like about the tests now than wait until my vacation. :)
 
Dooom and Glooom! Giggle. Dooom and Gloooom!

Wow! everyone just thinks the most horrible things - when the last testing phase seemed pretty positive. I think the new system will be a hybrid of the old with the new, and the tests show they allowed regular fast pass to work with new fast pass plus...but for some reason everyone thinks that old system will be going away with no ability to get same day FP or reserve ANY DAY you want ahead of time. all the tests have shown they will work together but not under the old system name, Fast Pass....

I know there have been rumors going around...but till it is actually live, we do not know if anything in the 'terms and conditions' is exactly what is going to happen because it's not live yet. There won't be paper FP tickets, but you will still be able to book same day reserved ride times - how do i know this? bcause we have seen this in the tests!

People were able to make adjustments on the fly, same day. How do you know you won't be able to book same day FP+?

HOW do you know this is fact 100% when all the tests show people have been able to make same day adjustments? Please deal in FACTS people!

I don't know. You don't know. We don't know, but of course everyone is yelling 'the sky is falling!' because we hate change.

Yea it might stink, it might be great, it might mean we change how we tour. But I sincerely doubt it will be like any one of us imagine.

Please stop coming up with doom and gloom imaginary stories of horror - it is confusing and makes people think these are actual facts.

Oh No! We don't know what is going to happen so instead of just waiting to hear the facts I am going to run in circles and yell 'The Sky is Falling!"

The positive things I'm hearing about during the test give me hope. Please please please work with facts rather then imagined moments of horror.
While the tone is very condescending, it is a good point that the system is NOT finalized as of yet. There are a few key points that are currently slated to be different with the latest proposed final system though:
1) Under current ToS and documentation, FP+ and old FP will not be compatible. It's either or, with the current FP system likely to be phased out.

2) Conjecture regarding saving FPRs for "same day" are abound, but based on the ADR system (the only other thing we have experience with to go on), they may not be holding back for "day of" reservations. (Just like they don't hold back tables for walk-ins). While booking some same day FP+s is very likely, the chances of them being for TSM, Splash, Space, Everest, Soarin', or Test Track is likely pretty low. The majority of these is likely (note how I'm using that word a lot ;)) to be gone by that day. Either there will be a very limited amount of "same day", or they'll be totally gone (if you thought walking into DHS to get a TSM FP before was rough, just wait until they cut the availability down by 95%!)

3) S/B lines for individual attractions are likely to grow. This is caused by 2 factors. One, with limited and preplanned FP+s, the amount of "missed" FPs is likely to drop. Two, they've altered the ratios and the amount of FPs given out for individual attractions (this is relatively accepted), thus pushing more people through FP and slowing down S/B. (This also grows the FP lines a bit, so the value of a FP is also decreasing). Under normal circumstances, the more FP riders may balance out, but they're also experiencing heavier crowds than they have in the past, which compounds the S/B issue a bit.

4) There are VERY limited people testing the system right now (and in past testing phases). This is a miniscule amount of load and demand compared to putting the entire thing online. While there may be same day FPs available now, since no one is booking 60 days out and only those participating and staying at 2 resorts are part of it, it serves as no indication of availability once the system goes live with 18 resorts, 60 days (+10) of prebooking, and the numerous offsite guests that show up.

Part of the issue is that there are no true, hard, confirmed facts. Even those testing the system right now don't have all the facts about how it's going to be implemented in the future. Given Disney's recent history with IT endeavors and the super high risk of the system in general, it's not surprising to see people aren't happy about it. It's not so much that it's changing, it's what it's changing to that most take issue with. Whether it's the 1 park per day limitations, the 3 FP+ only limitations, the potential for headliner FPs to be gone before you even travel, issues with WiFi/Data in the parks, or simply not wanting to be handcuffed to a crappy, barely functional app on their smartphones, there are many things to take issue with.

Fact is, I don't trust Disney to roll this out well. Sorry, but those days appear to be over. Their recent technology and even attractions rollouts have been pitiful. (ee the BOG bridge issue for one, MDE app in Canada/overseas, MDE site in general, ADR issues, RSR mechanical issues (which happen to be the same as the TT mechanical issues they've dealt with for years...you'd think they'd learn how to improve it...), limited time merchandise over the past 2 anniversaries, and the recent rash of attraction and monorail issues they've been having for examples.

So, it could be the best thing since sliced bread, but with the published (and leaked) details and Disney's recent track record... I'm not holding my breath.
 
While booking some same day FP+s is very likely, the chances of them being for TSM, Splash, Space, Everest, Soarin', or Test Track is likely pretty low. The majority of these is likely (note how I'm using that word a lot ;)) to be gone by that day. Either there will be a very limited amount of "same day", or they'll be totally gone (if you thought walking into DHS to get a TSM FP before was rough, just wait until they cut the availability down by 95%!)

I agree. I believe some are assuming if 95% of TSMM FP+s are pre-booked it would mean the in-park same-day demand is also cut by 95% or some other significantly high percentage. I don't think that will be the case even if they enforce a 1 FP+ per attraction rule.
 
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Any feedback they get may cause things to change further. I'd rather let them know what I don't like about the tests now than wait until my vacation. :)

While some Disney folks may troll these boards, they're getting their real - most relevant - feedback from the guests going through testing - those who are actually experiencing the offer in its current incarnation.

Not that you're engaged in this, but talking of being scared to death and terrified about POTENTIAL aspects of the yet-to-be-introduced system that some other DISers have come up with isn't feedback. And there's a ton of that here. ;)

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I sent a letter voicing my concerns. The "we don't know yet" or "I'm holding off judging until its fully rolled out" folks listen up...NO WAY am I waiting until its live to see if its the disaster I think it is. I want them to know my concerns now. If we all voice our concerns perhaps it will influence the final product.

The people live testing are not testing it with the 60 day out reservation model or with not being allowed more than three passes or not being able to park hop for passes. Their families feedback doesn't address those concerns.
 
I sent a letter voicing my concerns. The "we don't know yet" or "I'm holding off judging until its fully rolled out" folks listen up...NO WAY am I waiting until its live to see if its the disaster I think it is. I want them to know my concerns now. If we all voice our concerns perhaps it will influence the final product.

Great! I think more people should do that. That's sure to be more effective than making things up about FP+ and getting upset about the made-up stuff on an unofficial Disney board! Thumbs up!

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I know there is a lot of fear that FP+ is going to severely limit the number of FP a person can use in a day. Many of us are used to FP'ing 6 or more times a day under the current system. However, there have been several posts in the last few months about how bad stand-by lines have become - that FP'ers have basically "taken over". Would FP+, and it's limitations, not help ease this problem? Would stand-by lines now become quicker?

I know...no one knows the answer...but I'm trying to think positive here! Our trip is in January and I'm afraid it's still not all going to be sorted out by then
 
Great! I think more people should do that. That's sure to be more effective than making things up about FP+ and getting upset about the made-up stuff on an unofficial Disney board! Thumbs up!

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Agreed.

People shouldn't get upset about things that may or may not happen. They shouldn't make rash decisions in regards to them either. But they should ask questions and voice concerns about those things so Disney knows what is being said and how people feel about it.
 
Agreed.

People shouldn't get upset about things that may or may not happen. They shouldn't make rash decisions in regards to them either. But they should ask questions and voice concerns about those things so Disney knows what is being said and how people feel about it.

Agree 110%!!!

I'll write to them today -- just hadn't made time for it until now. Will share my 2 cents... maybe 4 cents... ;)

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I know there is a lot of fear that FP+ is going to severely limit the number of FP a person can use in a day. Many of us are used to FP'ing 6 or more times a day under the current system. However, there have been several posts in the last few months about how bad stand-by lines have become - that FP'ers have basically "taken over". Would FP+, and it's limitations, not help ease this problem? Would stand-by lines now become quicker?

I know...no one knows the answer...but I'm trying to think positive here! Our trip is in January and I'm afraid it's still not all going to be sorted out by then

That is what I was thinking would happen but some DISers have pointed out that because the FP lines will grow, the wait at SB may be longer. The amount of people may be less, but if they are letting the FP holders on first then SB people will just have to wait. The time in line may not be any different. Kind of makes sense.

Does sending a letter really make any difference? Do they only use the feedback of those who have tested as opposed to those who think they know what is going to happen? If the testers are happy with it, but non-testers are complaining does Disney care?
 
...Would stand-by lines now become quicker?

I know...no one knows the answer...but I'm trying to think positive here! Our trip is in January and I'm afraid it's still not all going to be sorted out by then

I'd be willing to bet that Disney has done some modeling to see how the numbers stack up and probably is the basis of them moving forward with the FP+ project.

Again, maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I really don't think Disney would jump into this blindly without some evidence that it will work as they intend. Your talking about an entertainment icon that has set the standard for theme parks and customer service (yes, i know we all have our complaints).

My opinion is that it's all a matter of mathematics. They have years & decades of data on crowd levels and crowd control. They know what max ride capacities are, max park capacities are and what the trends of guests are. I really don't think it's a complicated as everyone is making it out to be (maybe the programming is, but not the concept). Lots of people have their bees in a bonnet over the various tests being done but the fact is we don't know what the end product is intended to be and that the testing is likely a sum of some of the parts. Lots are upset that Disney hasn't spilled all the beans yet...well, think about it, who would? the probably release tidbits intentionally and for good reason. they are working towards a specific goal, why would you let out all your info ahead of actual deployment? most businesses don't. Looke at Sony & Microsoft with the recent "unveilings" for their new game consoles....not terribly different than Disney with regards to they haven't given it all up on the first date.

Now I must get back to my glass of Kool-Aid...
 
...but some DISers have posted ...

They don't know - they're "educated guessing".

I doubt they weight the letters the same way they do direct feedback from those who have tested the actual system in its current form, but I'd be really surprised if they didn't give them some consideration.

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I know there is a lot of fear that FP+ is going to severely limit the number of FP a person can use in a day. Many of us are used to FP'ing 6 or more times a day under the current system. However, there have been several posts in the last few months about how bad stand-by lines have become - that FP'ers have basically "taken over". Would FP+, and it's limitations, not help ease this problem? Would stand-by lines now become quicker?

I know...no one knows the answer...but I'm trying to think positive here! Our trip is in January and I'm afraid it's still not all going to be sorted out by then
This is more likely tied to Disney upping the allotment of FPs per attraction.

CMs on the ground have supported this by basically stating that there are more FPs available now than there were before. Since ride capacity doesn't change, this means that the SB lines are likely to lengthen. This is compounded by the busier than average year that they seem to be having so far.

(This FP ratio change has been noted by CMs on the ground, by other sources stating that it is in preparation for FP+, shown by the change in FP/SB ratios at merge, and supported by some FPs being available slightly later in the day than previous, even though ridership via the FP line is assumed to be up)

Unless they reduce the number of FPs available back down to where they were before FP+ started being news, the SB lines are not likely to get any shorter.
 
I'd be willing to bet that Disney has done some modeling to see how the numbers stack up and probably is the basis of them moving forward with the FP+ project.

Again, maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I really don't think Disney would jump into this blindly without some evidence that it will work as they intend. Your talking about an entertainment icon that has set the standard for theme parks and customer service (yes, i know we all have our complaints).

My opinion is that it's all a matter of mathematics. They have years & decades of data on crowd levels and crowd control. They know what max ride capacities are, max park capacities are and what the trends of guests are. I really don't think it's a complicated as everyone is making it out to be (maybe the programming is, but not the concept). Lots of people have their bees in a bonnet over the various tests being done but the fact is we don't know what the end product is intended to be and that the testing is likely a sum of some of the parts. Lots are upset that Disney hasn't spilled all the beans yet...well, think about it, who would? the probably release tidbits intentionally and for good reason. they are working towards a specific goal, why would you let out all your info ahead of actual deployment? most businesses don't. Looke at Sony & Microsoft with the recent "unveilings" for their new game consoles....not terribly different than Disney with regards to they haven't given it all up on the first date.

Now I must get back to my glass of Kool-Aid...

^ THIS :)

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Great! I think more people should do that. That's sure to be more effective than making things up about FP+ and getting upset about the made-up stuff on an unofficial Disney board! Thumbs up!

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I'm trying to keep up with all these threads. But occasionally I do have to stop and do some work.

I must have missed the "made up" stuff. It would probably be helpful to everyone if you could specify which info posted here was made up.

I know there is a lot of fear that FP+ is going to severely limit the number of FP a person can use in a day. Many of us are used to FP'ing 6 or more times a day under the current system. However, there have been several posts in the last few months about how bad stand-by lines have become - that FP'ers have basically "taken over". Would FP+, and it's limitations, not help ease this problem? Would stand-by lines now become quicker?

I know...no one knows the answer...but I'm trying to think positive here! Our trip is in January and I'm afraid it's still not all going to be sorted out by then

I agree that I have seen a trend in anecdotal evidence that standby lines have gotten slower. My own working theory (supported by reports here on the DIS from CMs) is that they added more FPs to the system over the past experimenting with what the workable FP capacity of each ride is. I would think that when FP+ goes live, they will use the same number they are using now, just issue them in some mix of pre-booked and same day FPs. But the end result would be the same: Slow standby lines, but not any slower than they are now..... unless they monkey more with the mix.
 














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