FP+ Capacity per Park Summary of Work so far 2/9/2013

[brucerob62]

so glad i wont have to worry about fp+ for my trip in 3 weeks,,next year well a different story most likely. 21 days and counting!!

 

[WDW1979]

Its about Earth conservation.

In my view, Avatar is about "humans bad, everything else good". They better have some cutting edge ride technology to get past that.

IMHO, Disney doesn't need the Avatar theme or story to develop great new attractions.

Disney: if you pay me several million dollars for my advice to avoid "Avatar Land", you will still be ahead of the game by a factor of about a hundred over the next couple of decades by going another way. Go the Disney way instead.

Avatar Land? Meh.

 

[andeesings]

In my view, Avatar is about "humans bad, everything else good". They better have some cutting edge ride technology to get past that.

IMHO, Disney doesn't need the Avatar theme or story to develop great new attractions.

Disney: if you pay me several million dollars for my advice to avoid "Avatar Land", you will still be ahead of the game by a factor of about a hundred over the next couple of decades by going another way. Go the Disney way instead.

Avatar Land? Meh.

The only reason I think Avatar land is a bad idea (I loved the movie) is that the movie is already passé. Disney is timeless, and trendy films like Avatar aren't. What would be the point of spending billions on a new land for AK that will need re-theming?

 

[Rileygirl]

I knew I shouldnt have mentioned the 'A" word. :>)

Whether it will happen, whether it will be great for disney, whether it will be dated, whatever, is not the issue for me. I just thought that out of everything that is going on with the Magic plus, and everything that could be potentially positive improvement for Disney - Mr. Cameron would be THE MAN to know how to use that RFID chip to maximize the experience. Just how I feel. Does not mean its right, or its good, or whatever. Honestly, when I first heard about Magic Plus, within a day, I was thinking - I wonder if that is how Disney 'won' James Cameron in the marketing war. The two fit together perfectly. I think the idea would turn Mr. C's crank. That is why I used it as an example.

Now, on to more exciting news. I looked at the theme board threads, and apparently Josh from EasyWDW was forcasting the end of EMH. Hmmmm. Interesting... and my goodness, doesent that put a kink in the old best day charts, huh? What do y'all think? Is it going?

 

[andeesings]

Now, on to more exciting news. I looked at the theme board threads, and apparently Josh from EasyWDW was forcasting the end of EMH. Hmmmm. Interesting... and my goodness, doesent that put a kink in the old best day charts, huh? What do y'all think? Is it going?

The only reason I liked EMH were the super late closing times when I go with adults.... Will those be kept?

 

[mom2rtk]

The only reason I liked EMH were the super late closing times when I go with adults.... Will those be kept?

That's pretty much what EMH is.

 

[andeesings]

That's pretty much what EMH is.

Yes and no. Right now they're a perk of staying on property. But if FP+ is now the perk, will it just be early closing time for everyone? Or will they just keep some later occasional closing times for all? Losing EMH ( at least late ones) would really suck.

 

[Rileygirl]

I dont think Disney is going to get rid of EMH without replacing it with a 'perk' that is either real or paper imaginary.

I was reading that thread Mom2rtk, but I was not going to post on it. I think it will get intense fast.

The perk I see being offered is extra fp+. It COULD be done with additional time in the park allowed only to resort guests, kinda repackaged and renamed and revised EMH. That would be a decent perk

Or, under the imaginary perk, it could just be extra fp+s - and they will make it appear like a SUPER PERK, BETTER THEN EMH EVER WAS!! (that is the disney marketer shouting, not me, I dont think its going to be a good perk.)
How are they going to make this commodity super desirable, intensley coveted? By creating a NEED for more then 3 FP to have a great time at Disney. And that is simple to do: make standby lines really yukky at all fp rides (including b attractions), and whistle through those in the fp line. Carrot and Stick, but mostly, stick. And, through the same means, they can make less busy times of year more busy by offering resort guests more FP+s.

But:
I am not sure if this carrot/stick idea wouldnt backfire on Disney. Definetly some holes in this theory. Afterall, if your strategy to sell something is by pissing people off with long standby lines, isnt there a huge risk of just turning off the person from ever coming back again?
Yes, some definete weak points on this theory, and yet, I think they did a little trial test on that at wdw a week or so ago. Studying the human psychy by making people wait 2 hrs in a supposed 20 minute standby line. Perhaps it was all accidental. Its just strange.

Edited to ADD: Even if they do away with EMH altogether, parks during peak periods would still probably run some very late hours, but I am not sure if they would go to 3 in the morning like EMH would do over christmas (and I hear ya, the last hour or two on a very late night in the park can be the best time!)

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes and no. Right now they're a perk of staying on property. But if FP+ is now the perk, will it just be early closing time for everyone? Or will they just keep some later occasional closing times for all? Losing EMH ( at least late ones) would really suck.

Purely a guess on my part, but I don't think their goal is to keep the EMH hours but just let everyone attend. I think their entire goal would be to cut costs (i.e. those extra late night operating hours).

We don't use enough EMH to care that much, but it's certainly interesting to follow what their thought pattern is with this.

Something still needs to help fill all those onsite rooms.

Will it be extra FP+ slots? I think they said they weren't doing that. But who the heck knows. I just can't figure out where all that ride capacity is coming from. Seems a little like our government just printing more money when they want it. People don't like 3 FP+ slots? Just print more. Boom, now you get 4. People want some same day slots in addition to the prescheduled ones? Just print more. People want a perk to stay onsite? Just print more. (OK, I know they're not "printing" anything, but you get the idea......)

 

[Rileygirl]

Well, ride capacity is definetly a finite number. BUT, disney increased the number of fp by adding more FP+ enabled attractions. Then they made parades and fireworks part of the deal. Finally, counter service. So they are printing their own money so to speak.

You do have to consider the 'weakest link' though. AK has the shortest park hours, and really the least number of 'attractions'. When you combine that with potential maximum park attendance projections, there are some issues.

 

[MrRomance]

Disney is juggling multiple "goals" and they've invested a monster truck load of money in MyMagic+ so they're doing it to help their bottom line. How can this help their bottom line? There are lots of ways but some that spring to mind are...

1. Keeping people out of long lines and in to shops, restaurants etc.
2. Streamlining staffing, transportation, etc.
3. Filling more rooms
4. Encouraging people to come to WDW for longer (more days on their tickets)
5. New products Magic Bands and Magic Band personalisation/accessories
6. Improving guest experience to encourage return visits

Taking EMH away as a "perk" will do more harm than good. There are only 2 real perks to staying on-site these days, EMH and free parking. Take the EMH away and they risk driving people off site and filling less rooms.

As I mentioned previously, I think the idea with MyMagic+ is to better control how guests visit the parks while making the guest feel like their experience is incredible. By controlling the guest experience, they can streamline.

Getting less done in a day will encourage people to come for longer and encourage return visitors. However, there will need to be a fine balancing act with this because if they guest doesn't get the experience they want or guests are unable to get what they feel is a reasonable amount done, will deter them.

I kinda see this like a balancing act that Disney are going to play. Think about it in a different context. If you go to a great restaurant that has awesome food and plenty of it, you're prepared to wait a little longer for a table and you'll probably go back again. If you go to a restaurant and the food is mediocre and you leave hungry, waiting longer because an additional irritant and you're unlikely to go back. To make this work for them, Disney will have to get that balance right.

The beauty of Disney is that they create touches of magic and those little sparks of magic go a LONG way. The key to making this work is going to be the they sprinkle in controlling the guest and improving their experience.

Obviously, there will be the revenue from Magic Bands which will become the next big accessory like the ear hats that every kid wants and has their name embroidered on, which will make a dent in recovering the investment over time, but there is so much more to what this technology can do that will indirectly generate revenue.

Your average first time visitor doesn't know (and often doesn't care) what the wait times are like. A free Mickey Bar, the odd extra FP, a special pin, and a personal greeting from a character will put a smile on their faces. We'll have to see if Disney get it right (they usually do) but my guess is they have some tricks up their sleeves.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

A very well laid out explanation...though a little corporate.

"Touches of Magic?"...i mean, come on

But you're right in that there "crowd control" initiative is intended to do all those things.

I jus think that if they go hard at the cost saving features off the bat...to "recoup costs"...they may be pushing it even if they are Disney.

Their room rates and tickets prices have been increased at unsustainable rates over the last few years...they may reach a point where they outbudget the core of their audience. No matter what the stock market says...the money for travel is still not there and may not return fully- let alone the time needed to do it. The way our economy is duct taped together, for companies like Disney to just bank on the old models and assume a boom is coming is dangerous. The last couple were based on hoaxes and the magicians may be out of tricks.

So this new system of "pre-planned" fun could backlash.

Compress park days to limit staff or as you have laid out - warrant longer stays.

First, people will not be taking longer vacations...it's not happening. The more that it makes sense, the more the US digs in its heels and resists it. We are a very ignorant and arrogant people often times.

So while the foreign markets may increase travel time - the core audience is not going more than 7 days in the aggregate. That's the way it is and shall remain.

The other thing with reduced park days is more down time for the customers where they are either dumped back into Orlando or forced to hotels and downtown for the purpose of retail.
Also dangerous, as it could have the opposite effect on the casual traveler. More incessant exposure to merch could turn on them and force people to stay fewer days - as they are exposed to more cash grab while getting less amusement and value for high price rooms and ticket media.

We'll see...this RFID thing has many more chapters yet to be written in the story.

 

[mom2rtk]

Well, ride capacity is definetly a finite number. BUT, disney increased the number of fp by adding more FP+ enabled attractions. Then they made parades and fireworks part of the deal. Finally, counter service. So they are printing their own money so to speak.

You do have to consider the 'weakest link' though. AK has the shortest park hours, and really the least number of 'attractions'. When you combine that with potential maximum park attendance projections, there are some issues.

Yes, ride capacity is definitely finite. But until they offer as many FPs as maximum ride capacity, there will be the temptation to "print more".

Taking EMH away as a "perk" will do more harm than good. There are only 2 real perks to staying on-site these days, EMH and free parking. Take the EMH away and they risk driving people off site and filling less rooms.

I do agree that getting rid of EMH would do more harm than good. But it's worth noting that there is still a pretty nice 3rd benefit to staying onsite, the Magical Express.

First, people will not be taking longer vacations...it's not happening. The more that it makes sense, the more the US digs in its heels and resists it. We are a very ignorant and arrogant people often times.

So while the foreign markets may increase travel time - the core audience is not going more than 7 days in the aggregate. That's the way it is and shall remain.

I agree. Here in the US people in general do not have the big blocks of vacation that our European counterparts have. Even those who have more time are highly discouraged from using it all at once. And even if I have the time, if I feel I must stay longer just to get the same done as I did last time, I'm not going to be a satisfied customer.

 

[Rileygirl]

Yes, ride capacity is definitely finite. But until they offer as many FPs as maximum ride capacity, there will be the temptation to "print more".

Verrrrryyyyyy Interesting Mom2rtk. The POTENTIAL is there to do just that. Perhaps sometime in the future (5 yrs, 10?) if they can make this techno wizzardry work, thats the exact plan. How lean and streamlined and business savvy on the Big D's part if they can do it. No standby line. huh. Little scary really.

Can they do it? Could they do it? Hmmmmmm. (yes, I think if they can get the technology to work right, and the customer response is positive,, I think they would.)

This is the billion dollar idea perhaps. But before we worry about that, we will have to see how this new system succeeds or fails, and what the consumer response is to it. Perhaps that is what they are thinking too - lets see how this baby rolls!

But nice point.

 

[Rileygirl]

I kinda see this like a balancing act that Disney are going to play. Think about it in a different context. If you go to a great restaurant that has awesome food and plenty of it, you're prepared to wait a little longer for a table and you'll probably go back again. If you go to a restaurant and the food is mediocre and you leave hungry, waiting longer because an additional irritant and you're unlikely to go back. To make this work for them, Disney will have to get that balance right

Nice analogy. Really makes sense to me.

 

[mom2rtk]

Verrrrryyyyyy Interesting Mom2rtk. The POTENTIAL is there to do just that. Perhaps sometime in the future (5 yrs, 10?) if they can make this techno wizzardry work, thats the exact plan. How lean and streamlined and business savvy on the Big D's part if they can do it. No standby line. huh. Little scary really.

Can they do it? Could they do it? Hmmmmmm. (yes, I think if they can get the technology to work right, and the customer response is positive,, I think they would.)

This is the billion dollar idea perhaps. But before we worry about that, we will have to see how this new system succeeds or fails, and what the consumer response is to it. Perhaps that is what they are thinking too - lets see how this baby rolls!

But nice point.

Thanks Rileygirl.

Welcome to appointment riding.

 

[bcrook]

Thanks Rileygirl.

Welcome to appointment riding.

Which might be ok if I wasn't paying more than $400.00 a ticket to get in the parks. $125 for a 14 day pass (sea world/Busch gardens), I might not complain too much.

 

[Rileygirl]

You know, although we can speculate and guess, and anticipate, we really just don't know how this is all going to play out. I AM a little pesimisstic that the educated user is going to end up with the short end of the stick, BUT really I am going to see this thing roll out before I get my nickers in a twist about it.

We have painted a fairly ugly picture, and yet, I cant help but think - Disney has to make it pallatable, otherwise, it aint going to fly. They just have too.

I am actually off to the big D in a couple of weeks, just for a day or two before a cruise (lucky me, trying out the fantasy!) so if there is any chance to participate in this beast, I will do my best to report back to y'all.

And, forgive my ignorance, what is appointment riding? I dont get that reference, but maybe because I am not American?

 

[EagleScout]

You know, although we can speculate and guess, and anticipate, we really just don't know how this is all going to play out. I AM a little pesimisstic that the educated user is going to end up with the short end of the stick, BUT really I am going to see this thing roll out before I get my nickers in a twist about it.

We have painted a fairly ugly picture, and yet, I cant help but think - Disney has to make it pallatable, otherwise, it aint going to fly. They just have too.

I am actually off to the big D in a couple of weeks, just for a day or two before a cruise (lucky me, trying out the fantasy!) so if there is any chance to participate in this beast, I will do my best to report back to y'all.

And, forgive my ignorance, what is appointment riding? I dont get that reference, but maybe because I am not American?

I believe "appointment riding" would be that all rides (or nearly all) would be by appointment - where essentially everything is done by fastpass, "appointment" with guests effectively standing in "virtual line" at nearest gift shop/restaurant (ie, spending money) waiting for their next ride appointment, with standby line becoming more like airline standby, where just a few riders to fill in any "gaps" in cars due to temporary unexpected drop in fastpass for one particular trip of the ride. And they could conceivably even eliminate that limited standby due to locator function of magic bands and spontaneously offer extra fastpass to any guests within vicinity of ride if there are spaces. As far as i know, appt riding is not a "real" word, just a clever phrase created by users on this board.

 

[Rileygirl]

I see, thank you. I thought it had something to do with politics. Duh