FOTL is a "Universal" and "World" Problem

phamton

The Other Orlando Themepark
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
10,472
With all this complaining about Universal limiting the FOTL for hotel guests, I thought you might be interested to see that Disneyland is slowly eliminating Fast Pass. How long before Disneyworld does the same? Maybe fastpass and express pass will soon be gone from all the parks.

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al071304a.htm
 
Yeah, maybe the lines will return to a normal state after that horrible system is removed. I've never been a fan of the FP system that disney started and other parks followed suit. I'm glad that Busch parks never followed suit.
 
I'm not a fan of it either, but I am a fan of early entry for resort guests. Cedar Point (CP) has it perfect. Open the park 1 hour early for hotel guests with 2 big rides running. Then let the GP in half an hour later, then open the park after that with all rides up.

Disney tries to do this with their surprise park of the day opening at 8am, but the people at the gate don't really check to make sure you are from a hotel, and then you get stuck at the ropes with everyone else. They need to have a seperate line for hotel guests and only let them in early.

IOA also tries. We hear about early entry for the major rides if you stay in the hotel 3 or more days, yet I've never heard of them actually doing it.

In the case of Bush, they offer rerides on their coasters for Plantinum members.

Disney and IOA need to be like CP with the early entry. And I also like the CP hand stamps. They are given out at 11am, you get 1 stamp on the back of each hand which lets you skip the large portion of the queue, and that's it. No one complains at CP when the hand stamp people merge into the line.
 
Maybe it's just me, but they check my room key (card) every single time that I do early entry mornings at WDW. Linda
 

Originally posted by Robert Walker
Yeah, maybe the lines will return to a normal state after that horrible system is removed. I've never been a fan of the FP system that disney started and other parks followed suit. I'm glad that Busch parks never followed suit.


I have to disagree. I for one will stop going to WDW if they do away with FP. I can think of alot better ways to spend my hard earned money than standing in lines. I guess that is why I love Universal's FOTL for their onsite guests so much. I can tolerate the heat and occasional thunderstorms but I cannot stand long lines. Maybe Fastpass has spoiled me, but I just can't go back to the way it was before. I sure hope that WDW doesn't follow DL on this move. I seriously think it would be a huge mistake.
 
Originally posted by RescueRanger
I have to disagree. I for one will stop going to WDW if they do away with FP. I can think of alot better ways to spend my hard earned money than standing in lines. I guess that is why I love Universal's FOTL for their onsite guests so much. I can tolerate the heat and occasional thunderstorms but I cannot stand long lines. Maybe Fastpass has spoiled me, but I just can't go back to the way it was before. I sure hope that WDW doesn't follow DL on this move. I seriously think it would be a huge mistake.

WE LOVE LOVE LOVE fast pass. I think it is a HUGE mistake to get rid of it. Part of being able to enjoy the park is what fast pass gives us. We actually do shop and buy stuff rather than wait on long lines getting miserable. OMG this would be horrible IMO.
 
I have read all the posts about FOTL and Universal's new after 3pm deal and I have used FOTL while staying onsite on 4 separate trips. What I don't understand is why people think the whole system is so unfair. I choose to stay onsite for the privilege, just as anyone else can choose to do. I have to budget my funds and cut costs in other areas to do this just as many others might have to do. If I didn't stay onsite, I could choose to arrive at the parks early and get Express passes or I could purchase the Express pass books. So could everyone else. If I didn't have an express pass, then I would wait in the regular line. If people got on the ride before me because they were using Express, good for them. I could have made the same choices. It's not like I am being given something because I am more wealthy or more beautiful (which wouldn't be the case anyhow...LOL!)

Having said all that, I don't have a problem with the new FOTL rule. As an onsite guest, you are still able to enjoy Express. And after 3pm on most days during peak season means that you will have unlimited rides for 5-6 hours. I hope that they don't do away with Express. Our Universal trips have been the best vacations. And although I love the hotels, I doubt we would stay there without the express privileges.
 
Themepark-

I agree. I could have not said it any better!
 
Does anyone know why they figure it isn't "working" and need to mess with it on both ends(WDW and US)? I know in our situation we have time to shop/eat etc rather than wait on those long lines. We do spend more because I have time to shop rather then be confined to the line. Especially with a smaller child who cannot wait that long the fast pass system works great. I don't understand why the parks need to "fix" or change it? What is broke about it?
 
Some attractions at the parks would work better WITHOUT express. Why? Capacity. Even on some of the higher capacity rides, eliminating Express/Fastpass could be beneficial.

Look at MIB, ET, Jurassic Park, Spider-Man, and Mummy. There are all high capacity rides. They also all have a dual loading dock. As you know, these attractions have one side devoted to Express, one to regular. Due to this, the regular line moves at half the speed it normally could. Without Express to use a side, those attractions could fill both their sides quickly and be able to cycle regular day guests quicker. Many of you that went on Mummy during its TR mode remember that the wait averaged 30 mins because there was no express. If anything, I'd vote for a gradual elimination of Express, keeping onsite FOTL, of course.

*deposits his 2¢ in the jar*
 
From other articles at MiceAge, it seems that the FastPass system at Disneyland has long been flawed and corrupted. The way it’s structured, there seemed to have been numerous loop holes where as people with the right knowledge could rack up multiple FastPasses at a time. The argument there was that it made FastPass a beneficiary tool only for locals and AP holders, who’ve figured out how to trick the system. On top of that, there’s always the fact that newbie tourists are usually ignorant to how the FastPass/Express deal works (on one occasion, while using a regular Express pass, I heard somebody in the standby line comment “That’s one of those front of the line passes you can buy”).

This is significant because, lets be honest, it’s more important to cater to and please the tourists then the regulars. They make up the larger portion of the park goers, and it’s their spending that determines if a park is successful or not (and that, in the end, is what decides whether us regulars get new rides and parks or not).

One of the reasons mentioned in the article for removing FastPass on some Disneyland attractions is similar to what DM said. Rides like Pirates of the Caribbean already have such a high hourly capacity rate that it’s absurd to think that FastPass actually makes the wait shorter, and in many cases it just makes the standby wait longer. And that’s the main problem with FastPass/Express systems: they’re just superficial solutions to long lines.

When the main complaint was the long waits at rides, instead of building more rides, creating new shows or reopening older rides and diversions, Eisner and Paul Pressler cooked up FastPass, which tricked people into thinking they’re waiting shorter for rides. What it causes is more crowded walkways and longer standby lines (while somebody has a FastPass for one ride, they go and stand in line for another ride). Granted, when planned correctly, FastPass/Express can help people do a lot or all of the big rides in one trip, which wasn’t always possible, but, again, most innocent tourists don’t know how to master it.

One of the things that make the Express system better then FastPass (and one of the reasons why it’s being curtailed in Disneyland) is that the amount of pass given out is actually regulated. In Disneyland (I’m not sure about WDW) return times are based on the time in which you got the FastPass, with an unlimited amount of passes given out. That means that, during busy times, the FastPass lines weren’t all that fast, with waits almost as long as standby. At Universal, the number of Express Passes given out for a given time depends on how many were already given out, how many express Plus have been sold, and how often the resort FOTL is being used.

In fact, that’s why for a while I didn’t like the resort FOTL. The way I saw it, the more hotel guests there were, and the more they used FOTL, the less regular Express Passes were made available to the regular park goers. Which is why some attractions run out of Express Passes even before noon. But then I read an article by Kevin Yee, the other writer at MiceAge, who has been one of the biggest critics of Disneyland’s FastPass system. He recently moved down to Orlando, and did a quick review of Universal. I was sure he was going to hate the resort FOTL, he was actually very positive about it. He liked the fact that Universal actually rewards the coveted tourists, who are the most likely to stay onsite. While at Disneyland, locals and AP holders had the upper hand with FastPass, in this case it is the tourists who are benefiting. He also liked the regulated Express system, saying that having them run out at mid day ensured that most Express lines were actually short and the standby lines not affected much, while still giving people (at least those who get there early enough) the opportunity to use Express. I still don’t like the Express Plus, since it simply works against the system and it’s just Universal trying to squeeze some more money out of the idea (say what you want about the Disney company being greedy, but at least they don’t sell FastPasses).

In all, I think the FastPass/Express scheme is close to running its course. Besides Disneyland starting to phase it out, notice that Shrek no longer offers it, and what DM said about the two train station at Mummy not serving it’s purpose. Soon they’ll just have to think up something that actually reduces wait time on rides.

As far as the new restrictions on the resort FOTL, I don’t think it’s such a big deal. I do agree that they shouldn’t have changed it without notifying people who had already booked under the previous policy. But in the end, FOTL is really just a privilege enhancing the regular park experience, and people should be grateful that they still have FOTL access for most of the day, which other places don’t offer. I don’t like the people who imply that they would rather stay at a Disney resort or not go to Universal at all if it wasn’t for the FOTL privileges. That’s completely downplaying and ignoring the great things that the Universal resorts and parks have to offer. Some people have said that the new policy reduces the value of what they paid for, but they don’t realize that Universal is just trying to somewhat increase the value of what the regular ticket people paid for. By holding back the FOTL until after 3pm, the standby lines will be shorter during that time and the rides will run out of Express passes much later in the day, meaning that there will be more available for the regular guests.

By the way, Bev, I saw your letter to Kevin Yee about a month ago about the Mummy storyline. He said pretty much what I was thinking: while it’s an interesting story and enhances the ride, they failed to fully communicate it to the guests. I also don’t like that the ride ops outside are called “Casting Directors”. A movie’s casting director would usually not be plural, and they would definitely not be out looking for extras. That seems more like a job for a Production Assistant (coincidentally, those ride ops are dressed just like Reggie, the P.A., from the queue video). Anyway, it was cool to see somebody I knew on a website I read.

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by DocBosch
I also don’t like that the ride ops outside are called “Casting Directors”. A movie’s casting director would usually not be plural, and they would definitely not be out looking for extras. That seems more like a job for a Production Assistant (coincidentally, those ride ops are dressed just like Reggie, the P.A., from the queue video).
That's what we are. They added "Casting Director" to make it easy for the guests to understand. Many don't know the different jobs on a movie set, but "Casting Director" makes sense to them, as we're casting for extras (even though it's an open casting call :p).

Also, when the guests return from the ride, many ops use the clapboard to go "and CUT" and make the clap noise. I didn't like this because I know the the clapboard is used to start a scene, not end it. However, many don't know this, so we play off that. I'd rather have a different prop at the Unload stations, but that's all they give us.
 
I think that Universal Express Plus is gumming up the works. The use of these tickets can't be regulated. In theory, all Universal Express Plus ticket holders can jump on MIB and cause one heck of a mess. On most rides I would say that for every room key there were at least five express plus passes. I wonder if the increased the number of these things they are selling. You can buy them anywhere in the park. Hotel Guest Key = $0, Express Plus = $ 37.
 
By the way, Bev, I saw your letter to Kevin Yee about a month ago about the Mummy storyline. Anyway, it was cool to see somebody I knew on a website I read.

OMG, I didn't even know my email was on the website. How cool! I sent the email a few weeks ago and wondered why he never answered my email. If I had known it was going to be posted on the site, I would have checked for typos. Thanks for the heads up. I feel so special. :tongue:
 
DM: Ok, that makes sense. I thought it was just a misnomer, but I guess it’s ok if it makes the story clearer to the guests. Unfortunately, sometimes they have to dumb things down when it comes to theme park attractions, but that’s the name of the game. Like the properly named "Captain Jake’s Amity Boat Tour" being listed as simply “JAWS” on the maps.

BTW, DM, I received the “package” a while back. Sorry I didn’t get back to you on that, but I’ve been waiting for s certain picture to come back that’ll show you just what I’ve been doing with your gift.

Patch'sD: I think Express Plus is regulated by them knowing how many books they’ve sold (do they still sell the books?) and entering that information into the system. The problem with Express Plus is that for every single Express Plus ticket used, one is deducted from the free Express tickets available to everybody else. That means Universal is literally taking regular free Express passes out of the hands of the guests and selling them to other guests.

Bev: Here’s the link to the article you’re your letter - http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky061004a.htm

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by DocBosch
BTW, DM, I received the “package” a while back. Sorry I didn’t get back to you on that, but I’ve been waiting for s certain picture to come back that’ll show you just what I’ve been doing with your gift.
Ah. Very cool. :smooth:
 
That means Universal is literally taking regular free Express passes out of the hands of the guests and selling them to other guests.

I agree and basically this is what happened on our visit last month. We are regular AP holders and this was the first time that I was disappointed in US/IOA. The lines were horrible. We are not commando's and we like to visit the parks and ride a few favorites and maybe try a couple of new things since we visit every year.

I felt like a cash cow. I hate to be nickel and dimed. Just tell me how much it is and I will pay whatever (why I like WDW) but dont get me in the park and then tell me if I dont want to wait 2 hours to see Shrek, I have to buy Express or stay onsite. Or that the kids meals dont come with drinks and the drinks are $2.50!

I've always saw US/IOA as a value compared to WDW, but to have the same experiences as WDW, US would cost us more and that's with only 2 parks!

I really saw no point in visiting US/IOA unless you buy Express or stay onsite. The experience for a "regular" guest is traumatic!
 
Originally posted by LIFERBABE
I agree and basically this is what happened on our visit last month. We are regular AP holders and this was the first time that I was disappointed in US/IOA. The lines were horrible. We are not commando's and we like to visit the parks and ride a few favorites and maybe try a couple of new things since we visit every year.

I felt like a cash cow. I hate to be nickel and dimed. Just tell me how much it is and I will pay whatever (why I like WDW) but dont get me in the park and then tell me if I dont want to wait 2 hours to see Shrek, I have to buy Express or stay onsite. Or that the kids meals dont come with drinks and the drinks are $2.50!

I've always saw US/IOA as a value compared to WDW, but to have the same experiences as WDW, US would cost us more and that's with only 2 parks!

I really saw no point in visiting US/IOA unless you buy Express or stay onsite. The experience for a "regular" guest is traumatic!

OMG you have me so scared!
 
Without the FOTL perk, you would never see me pay those prices of the on-site hotels when there are so may other options nearby. Like an earlier poster said, I make dramatic cut-backs in my vacation budget, like eating cold cereal for breakfast and sandwhiches in our rooms for lunch or dinner (okay - I don't do the sandwhiches the entire time, but more so than not). It's only worth the sacrifice for the FOTL perk. :D
 








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