Foreclosures hit Celebration

[Peter Pirate 2]

Celebration?

More like the state of florida, the sun belt, the pacific coast, and half of the eastern seaboard.

We all see know that the "ownership society" was an elaborate ruse to attempt to transfer wealth up the chain (i know...shocking)...and Florida was ground zero.

It's gonna take alot longer for a rebound in Florida...like perhaps 10 or more years. And that's assuming that everything else on the national and world economy holds...far from certain at this point - safe to say.

In august the average sale price in orlando fell to below 100K for the first time in 12 years...

that's bad.

The "housing boom" ballooned the perceived need for property in florida...and commercial developers went all in...

that's really bad.

now things have gotten back to normal and people have realized that nothing has changed in florida....it is generally low income, rental individuals and families, small pockets of the uber-rich, and huge developments of modest fixed income retirees...which basically don't exist now and as they die off (full swing) their descendents dump them as quickly as possible.

All these things contribute to a terrible market and will for years to come.

And it even has destroyed the rental market (complex...so i won't spell it out...but makes perfect sense from the perspective of those who have lost big in the ownership market)

Long story short: If you worked in travel or the service industry in 1995 and couldn't afford to own....why the hell would you think you could afford in 2005? When more than likely your wages didn't even rise enough to counteract inflation and cost of living?

The answer is simple, harsh, and direct:

you were dumb enough to believe a fantasy (not spectromagic) and those selling you the "product" see you only as a commission and really weren't disciplined enough to know when they passed the breaking point.

It is just the way it is. And Florida has nothing to cope with the underwater real estate on the whole...there just isn't enough "wealth" for those that went under to get above again.

Another completely depressing article i saw in the sentinel was that in september 28% of home sales were "traditional"

i.e. where the sale price covered the outstanding debt and a private seller was selling to a private buyer on a traditonal loan, cash or mortgage transaction.

almost 3/4 bank-owned, shortsales, or in serious delinquency.

that kinda harsh reality is cured by a "stimulus" or "5 quarters of positive growth"...it will take forever...may never get back to even as the vast majority of those affected would need it to to not suffer serious loss.

Just a bunch of stupid decisions and fundamental shift in what we all deep down know was right.

Greed...that's all

Who you calling dumb?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

We all know the blunders of the greedy during the housing fall (the bankers and the investors) and that it isn't just Celebration but Celebration is kind of what we were talking about.

My point was that some niche markets, even in Florida, are doing much, much better already. Key West homeowners, for example aren't really in troubled times any longer.

Celebration was a victim of the outrageous RE climb during that speculators market because of timing. However, the fact remains that the tenants that Celebration were built on remain (aside from Disney ownership). It is still a very eye appealing and peaceful place only moments from WDW.

Though Disney owns very little in Celebration today it is still very much a Disney community with a lot of CM's and just Disney lovers alike living there.

I think it is the next gen investors dream (if there are enough of them, as pointed out) but the HOA fees do make it prohibitive I think and I hope they'll find a way to fight that battle, so to speak.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

We all know the blunders of the greedy during the housing fall (the bankers and the investors)

OT
1) Yep, lots of greed.
2) People blame bankers, but everyone is at fault.
3) Everyone!
. . . agents got greedy with higher prices & commissions
. . . appraisers got greedy for inflating estimates for Realtors
. . . buyers got greedy to get homes they couldn't otherwise buy
. . . other buyers got 100% or 125% loans, so no money invested
. . . mortgage brokers made big bucks
. . . bankers got big fees for selling then serving the loans
. . . brokers got huge bucks for bundling and selling loans
. . . investors got greedy for high "guaranteed" returns
. . . politicians got greedy for re-election for refusing to reform the laws *


* On the floor of the Senate and House it was proclaimed by Dodd and Franks that EVERYONE should own a home, forgetting that many should not be afforded or accorded that option. (We had renters who left because their house mortgage was cheaper than our rents, which was tough to do, but they had 2%-3% ARM loans. Three of the four that left when into foreclosure.)

 

[seashoreCM]

Some people may have bought in Celebration (or elsewhere) expecting that real estate prices would keep rising. But even if prices did rise, where would you buy after you sold and took your profit? Everywhere else would also have a higher price.

Who you calling dumb?

Reminds me of a version produced as a non-animated, but very Disney's-wonderful-world-of-colorful movie by Disney:
Stepsister 1: "What a lazy girl!"
Stepsister 2: "Who are you calling lazy?"
Stepsister 1: "Not you, stupid. Cinderella."
Stepsister 2: "Who are you calling stupid?"

The experimental prototype community of tomorrow (Celebration) is a failure if any Disney folk including sanitary imagineers and mousekeepers can't live there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Who you calling dumb?

perhaps not you...

anybody who took out a 200K mortgage with a variable payment that started at $600 a month was plain dumb.

Here's why: you should know simple arithmetic to be able to enter into a legal contract:

200,000 / 600 = 333.333 months or 28.75 years to pay off the principle amount

28.75 years to pay off the principle in what can only legally be a 30 year agreement....

...so that light should have kicked on and somebody should have asked themselves "Where's the interest?"

But few did....and those that did (and i know people that did this...completely without explanation) where told by their realtors and bankers that "the numbers work themselves out...trust me"

...and they did.

numbers don't lie...people do almost all the time.

 

[PatriciaH]

HOA is about $850 a YEAR not per month. That includes parks, pools, trash pickup, rec hall. Some condos have extra fees per month. Property taxes are high.

 

[Michael623]

HOA is about $850 a YEAR not per month. That includes parks, pools, trash pickup, rec hall. Some condos have extra fees per month. Property taxes are high.

Where in Celebration are you paying $70 a month? Some of dumpiest condos I've ever seen in the Kissimmee area charge a minimum of $150 a month.

 

[perdidochas]

Where in Celebration are you paying $70 a month? Some of dumpiest condos I've ever seen in the Kissimmee area charge a minimum of $150 a month.

According to this website:
http://www.celebrationhouses.com/faq.html

HOA fees are 1,134/yr for single family home owners and $861/yr for condominium owners for 2011.

 

[Michael623]

Well you certainly shut me up!

 

[Stuart01]

It is very important that you choose the right company to take the loan from when you are planning to buy a house. Choosing the right company will help you to avoid foreclosure as well as getting a low rate of interest.

 

[Traveliz]

According to this website:
http://www.celebrationhouses.com/faq.html

HOA fees are 1,134/yr for single family home owners and $861/yr for condominium owners for 2011.

The HOA fees for Celebration are that much but then the condo monthly maintenance fee is in addition to that and varies greatly...I have seen them from 250 to 500 a month more.

Liz

 

[ilovemickeymost]

I own in Celebration and realize I'll never recoup what I've lost (but that's the way it goes). Celebration is a beautiful place with a really great infrastructure. I disagree that Windemere rivals Celebration in feel (JMO). I think Celebration has that independent feel despite the fact that it's part of Kissimmee and only blocks from the real world (which sadly intruded on our little fairy tale).

I can't believe the market is so bad that these current prices for homes and condo's aren't being gobbled up by the next gen investor. We're still at WDW's back door. Downtown has some great restaurants, it's extremely family friendly and it's very pleasing to the eye. I cannot imagination it failing.

These are just my thoughts but I'd still love to live there full time and certainly would if I were just starting family life (rather than just finishing).

My family was fortunate to visit your little slice of heaven a few years back. Our cruise was delayed b/c of Hurricane Irene. No room at the WDW Inn. so the wonderful people at the Celebration Hotel took us in & gave us shelter. I had always wanted to visit, but never made it part of our vacation. It is such a beautiful place. The Asian resturaunt was fantastic & fell in love w/ the toy store & the British tea house run by real Brits. And the residents couldn't have been nicer. If I could convience hubby to move to FL, I'd only hope we'ld be buying in Celebration.

 

[PatriciaH]

The HOA fees for Celebration are that much but then the condo monthly maintenance fee is in addition to that and varies greatly...I have seen them from 250 to 500 a month more.

Liz

Yep. That is one of the many reasons condos and townhomes are not doing well in Florida right now. When others bail or lose a condo, the other owners have to make up the fees. Scary now owning.

 

[PatriciaH]

My family was fortunate to visit your little slice of heaven a few years back. Our cruise was delayed b/c of Hurricane Irene. No room at the WDW Inn. so the wonderful people at the Celebration Hotel took us in & gave us shelter. I had always wanted to visit, but never made it part of our vacation. It is such a beautiful place. The Asian resturaunt was fantastic & fell in love w/ the toy store & the British tea house run by real Brits. And the residents couldn't have been nicer. If I could convience hubby to move to FL, I'd only hope we'ld be buying in Celebration.

The tea place Sherlock's closed and now there is a Irish pub/restaurant in its place called Shannon's. They still have a location in Clermont. The toy/game store in Water Tower Place closed and there was a personal trainer/gym in there for while but I don't know if they lasted. The doll store Day Dreams is still downtown but I have seen it listed for sale. The kids clothing/toy shop Lollipop Cottage luckily found another owner before the old owners left. The theater just closed. Sad. Things come and go there a lot. Esp. in Water Tower Place. Restaurants do well because of all the Cast Members eating there!

 

[perdidochas]

The tea place Sherlock's closed and now there is a Irish pub/restaurant in its place called Shannon's. They still have a location in Clermont. The toy/game store in Water Tower Place closed and there was a personal trainer/gym in there for while but I don't know if they lasted. The doll store Day Dreams is still downtown but I have seen it listed for sale. The kids clothing/toy shop Lollipop Cottage luckily found another owner before the old owners left. The theater just closed. Sad. Things come and go there a lot. Esp. in Water Tower Place. Restaurants do well because of all the Cast Members eating there!

We were there just before Christmas. Had pizza and salad at the pizza place. Wonderful NY style pizza. My mouth is watering thinking about it.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Nice dining is NOT a problem. Shannon's is really good. The BEST fish'n'chips anywhere. Town Tavern is a beer drinkers heaven with great bar food. D'Antonio's is a nice, linen napkin Italian place with GREAT pizza and a GREAT bartender. Seito keeps sushi lovers very happy. Columbia is a treat for Spanish food. The Bohemian Hotel is great, upscale ambiance with very nice bar food. Thai Thani has great Thai food that will make your hair sweat and the Cafe has very good breakfast and Upper Crust has GREAT pizza to go.

 

[PatriciaH]

Lots more places too! Mona Lisa's restaurant, Seasons Cafe at the hospital/gym, Muligan's, Angelina's, Joe's Crab Shack, Jean Piere, Chinese food, Windmill Cafe (love their fries), Imp. Wine Room.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Lots more places too! Mona Lisa's restaurant, Seasons Cafe at the hospital/gym, Muligan's, Angelina's, Joe's Crab Shack, Jean Piere, Chinese food, Windmill Cafe (love their fries), Imp. Wine Room.

I forgot the Imp. Wine Room! Didn't even know Mona Lisa had a restaurant. But if we're expanding from DT then Charley's Steakhouse is right there too. Let's not forget Kilwin's (DT) and Coldstone for the sweet tooth!

 

[mic_KY_mouses]

We would love to retire in Celebration. Do any of you know what the market is like for renting there? Now is the time to buy, but we wouldn't be able to move for a few more years. We are considering the purchase but would have to rent the property out for a while. I understand that lease agreements have to be for a year....

 

[PatriciaH]

There is still a rental market due to Cast Members. The DCL, DVC, Ticketing, Marketing, Special Events and PR offices are all in Celebration. There are many property management companies that can handle that for a cut. I think garage apartments have to be rented at least 7 months and most other places (houses/condos) do a year. Jut be sure to run credit checks, etc. There were some horror stories about certain families destroying homes and then moving on to another home still in Celebration!