For what reasons could you be requested to go through the full body scanners?

[GraceLuvsWDW]

OK. I accept it. So?

Do you want a private firm taking over airport security? Or do you want no security at all? You've made it plain in your posts (at least to me) you are not happy with the TSA, regardless of the new scanners. So what do you want to do?

I want it to go back to the way it was, at the very least. One underwear bomber doesn't constitute this loss of dignity when flying. What will happen when someone plants a bomb in a bodily cavity? Will you consent to examination of those parts of your family? It is a slippery slope and being silently accepting opens the door to more loss of freedom, impairment of our way of life, not to mention creates a police state environment.

I WILL drive and so will many others. But that also affects YOU. Prices go up, schedules are decreased and financial repercussions are felt by the airline industry which will affect other industries as well. It is not as easy as just NOT FLYING.

 

[maxiesmom]

I want it to go back to the way it was, at the very least.

I WILL drive and so will many others. But that also affects YOU. Prices go up, schedules are decreased and financial repercussions are felt by the airline industry which will affect other industries as well. It is not as easy as just NOT FLYING.

Going back to the way it was is not going to happen. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes. Doing nothing to increase security would be beyond stupid, in the face of an enemy who has proven they would like nothing more than to take down more airplanes.

The only way your not flying will affect me is if a huge number of people feel the way you do. And that hasn't been proven, and I don't believe it will be.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

Think of this with regard to terrorism:

Walt Disney World is the #1 tourist destination in the US. You don't get a "strip search body scan" when entering. You are not told to empty your pockets or pass through a metal detector. Yet, there has never been a terrorist incident at WDW. Ask yourself why? How can Disney, a private sector company, keep the parks safe while the US government cannot do the same for air travel? What type of security do they employ? Why are their methods more effective and less invasive?

It can be done.

However, in the name of (a false sense of) security you are willing to consent to a full body scan which effectively strips and photographs you and your family naked or be touched in a way that you have no control over?

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

Going back to the way it was is not going to happen. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, as the saying goes. Doing nothing to increase security would be beyond stupid, in the face of an enemy who has proven they would like nothing more than to take down more airplanes.

The only way your not flying will affect me is if a huge number of people feel the way you do. And that hasn't been proven, and I don't believe it will be.

So far, 15% of the people flying are against the full body scans and/or the enhanced pat down. 15% decrease in travel to an industry that already has very few companies turning a profit. And that's just now, at the beginning of this debate, it will increase as more and more incidents of impropriety are reported.

 

[Vivianne]

So far, 15% of the people flying are against the full body scans and/or the enhanced pat down. 15% decrease in travel to an industry that already has very few companies turning a profit. And that's just now, at the beginning of this debate, it will increase as more and more incidents of impropriety are reported.

We flew 2x this year before all this. Complying with the security process as
it was with no incident.

However,

You really have to wonder where this all ends.

Although with the open borders..what about that? No action on this matter
despite the YEARS of discussion/haggling/debating.

They rather scan, probe the average citizen.

We may be with the minority of travelers on this one or maybe the majority
only time will tell. Enough flyers have to be fed up with this.

 

[sam_gordon]

I want it to go back to the way it was, at the very least. One underwear bomber doesn't constitute this loss of dignity when flying. What will happen when someone plants a bomb in a bodily cavity? Will you consent to examination of those parts of your family? It is a slippery slope and being silently accepting opens the door to more loss of freedom, impairment of our way of life, not to mention creates a police state environment.

Will you define "the way it was"? Are you referring to no screening whatsoever or simply keep the WTMD & baggage x-ray? I'll be honest, if it gets to the point of body cavity searches, I'll stop flying. Although honestly, I don't think body cavities are big enough to get a substantial amount of explosives.

I WILL drive and so will many others. But that also affects YOU. Prices go up, schedules are decreased and financial repercussions are felt by the airline industry which will affect other industries as well. It is not as easy as just NOT FLYING.

Actually, that will help me. A lack of people flying will force airlines to LOWER prices. Less people flying = more inventory of available seats = lower prices.

Think of this with regard to terrorism:

Walt Disney World is the #1 tourist destination in the US. You don't get a "strip search body scan" when entering. You are not told to empty your pockets or pass through a metal detector. Yet, there has never been a terrorist incident at WDW. Ask yourself why? How can Disney, a private sector company, keep the parks safe while the US government cannot do the same for air travel? What type of security do they employ? Why are their methods more effective and less invasive?

It can be done.

And how many terrorists have Disney security stopped? Since the answer is "none", they must be ineffective, and all security should be discontinued, right?

However, in the name of (a false sense of) security you are willing to consent to a full body scan which effectively strips and photographs you and your family naked or be touched in a way that you have no control over?

NO. I am not doing the body scans for a false sense of security. I'm doing the body scans because flying (for me) is more efficient. The body scans are part of the price of flying.

So far, 15% of the people flying are against the full body scans and/or the enhanced pat down. 15% decrease in travel to an industry that already has very few companies turning a profit. And that's just now, at the beginning of this debate, it will increase as more and more incidents of impropriety are reported.

First, do you have any sources that show the 15% of people against the body scans are CANCELING their trips? Do you have anything showing a 15% decrease in passengers? I think you're exaggerating. Just because someone is against it, doesn't mean they won't go through with it.

 

[CPT Tripss]

SNIP
I also wasn't aware it was legal to vidotape without letting the person taped know???

There is no expectation of privacy in an airport checkpoint. That cuts both ways.

 

[Nancy F]

We're flying to DW on the 3RD. Not looking forward to the stress.
Nancy

 

[pampam]

I'm not often on the Transportation Board, but when I saw the thread title, I had to read through as my husband and I were just discussing this last night. His stance is, "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” I'm torn on the subject, and can see both sides. I read this article today and thought it was quite interesting and food for thought.

That's a very good article. Thanks for the link.

 

[pampam]

Wow, the board's been busy...
I wouldn't call it a "grope". So what do you want to call it that not inflamatory to either side?

A frisk?

 

[goofy4tink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkQoiaf7Uc

Everyone should watch this.

More to the point, those parents did not properly prepare their child for the airport screenings. They needed to make it perfectly clear that the bear was going through security. And I have to say that I didn't see anything wrong with the way the TSA handled the pat down of that child. I truly think the parents could have alleviated the situation better. My child has had a teddy bear taken away from her, a few months after 9/11...she was upset. But she got over it. She didn't get to take it on the plane with her, as she had been allowed to do on the flight down to Orlando. That bear was made to go into her checked luggage, after being able to be carried on for every single flight before that. She survived. She also survived the wanding and pat down that followed.

Think of this with regard to terrorism:

Walt Disney World is the #1 tourist destination in the US. You don't get a "strip search body scan" when entering. You are not told to empty your pockets or pass through a metal detector. Yet, there has never been a terrorist incident at WDW. Ask yourself why? How can Disney, a private sector company, keep the parks safe while the US government cannot do the same for air travel? What type of security do they employ? Why are their methods more effective and less invasive?

It can be done.

However, in the name of (a false sense of) security you are willing to consent to a full body scan which effectively strips and photographs you and your family naked or be touched in a way that you have no control over?

Really? You are comparing security at WDW to airport security??? Hardly. If, and when, WDW is subject to any terrorist attack, it most likely won't be from a weapon that is brought in with a guest. It will be an airborne type attack, or in the water, or such.

This is just getting overblown. Yes, there are TSA employees who go over the line. There are TSA employees who do 'bad things'. But there are also school teachers, postal workers, and police that go over the line and/or do 'bad things'. You are, yet again, tarring an entire group of people with one brush and that's just not fair.
I can deal with the discussion about the type of screenings done at airports but I will no longer allow any aspersions cast upon an entire group of people. It ends here. Period.

 

[maxiesmom]

So far, 15% of the people flying are against the full body scans and/or the enhanced pat down. 15% decrease in travel to an industry that already has very few companies turning a profit. And that's just now, at the beginning of this debate, it will increase as more and more incidents of impropriety are reported.

And where has your figure of 15% come from? Do you have an actual, realiable source, or is it a guesstimate?

And would you rather be giving the TSA your life story? Would you find it less intrusive and more acceptable to have to detail for them who you are, why you are at the airport, where you are going, and so on and so forth? To me that is a bigger intrusion on my privacy then a quick scan, or a pat down.

I also think that the more and more inciedents being reported are caused by people just wanting to join the fray. "Yeah, well you had someone brush your privates. I had a guy grope mine!" Someone always wants to be part of the "group", and someone always feels the need to one up others.

 

[Minnie Lor]

This is just getting overblown. Yes, there are TSA employees who go over the line. There are TSA employees who do 'bad things'. But there are also school teachers, postal workers, and police that go over the line and/or do 'bad things'. You are, yet again, tarring an entire group of people with one brush and that's just not fair.
I can deal with the discussion about the type of screenings done at airports but I will no longer allow any aspersions cast upon an entire group of people. It ends here. Period.

YOU say things are overblown but that's YOUR opinion. For some reason this discussion hits your hot buttons. Your posts are the only ones that I read as heated. Maybe step away and let another mod. handle this thread. It's not out of control - it's a discussion between people with various views on freedom.

 

[Minnie Lor]

First, do you have any sources that show the 15% of people against the body scans are CANCELING their trips? Do you have anything showing a 15% decrease in passengers? I think you're exaggerating. Just because someone is against it, doesn't mean they won't go through with it.

I have a trip next May with rented DVC points. I can't get my $ back. I'm hoping this is resolved by then. If it's not, we may take extra days and drive. Future trips to WDW, Canada, & Japan (that were in the planning stages) are on hold.

 

[goofy4tink]

YOU say things are overblown but that's YOUR opinion. For some reason this discussion hits your hot buttons. Your posts are the only ones that I read as heated. Maybe step away and let another mod. handle this thread. It's not out of control - it's a discussion between people with various views on freedom.

Seriously? Me? Heated?? Nope, doesn't happen. These threads don't hit my 'hot button' as you put it. But...I have gotten many, many requests to shut them down..from those who find them to be over the top and offensive.
When one group of people is critized for being 'perverts' it has gone too far. There are many, many decent TSA employees, who are only trying to do the job they have been given. They may find it just as offensive as the flying public. But some here insist on coloring every single TSA employee with the 'pervert brush' and I find that to be offensive and over the top.

As a moderator, I am fully cognizent of what it against board guidelines, and what isn't. No need for me to 'step away'. There are no other mods available for this..you're stuck with me. If you have an issue with my moderating, contact admin.
I will defend to the death your rights to say what you think...it is called freedom of speech. BUT...there is a limit. You may not insult others, you may not accuse them of things they have never done. That is just not fair.

I have no problem with this discussion. And I too am entitled to my opinion..just as the rest of you are. But no one, not one single person, should be saying that the TSA, as a whole, are a bunch of groping perverts, hell bent on abusing us and copping a feel. Really? Do any of you really think that those types of posts lend credence to your thoughts?? That's what I mean by overblown. There just are not that many people complaining about the security measures. So, when you get a small percentage of people complaining, and others jump on the bandwagon saying that it is a huge problem and the TSA is abusing their privilege, then yes, I say it's overblown here.

 

[Minnie Lor]

I also think that the more and more inciedents being reported are caused by people just wanting to join the fray. "Yeah, well you had someone brush your privates. I had a guy grope mine!" Someone always wants to be part of the "group", and someone always feels the need to one up others.

Could be. I have a friend (not a friend of a friend) that was asked to remove her sweater by a male TSA agent. She declined. He yelled at her and once again she declined. She didn't have a t-shirt or blouse on under the sweater. He let her go thru the regular metal detector and then had her "randomly" selected by another TSA agent so she could be searched more thoroughly. The female TSA had to check under her bra and between her cheeks (I'm not talking face) while the original TSA agent stood there and smirked at her.

I'm not saying ALL TSA agents are like this but people are encountering this type of treatment. I wouldn't be worried about a pat down if it was a pat down. Seriously people, this isn't a pat down anymore than this is a love pat as the senator from my state would call it.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have a trip next May with rented DVC points. I can't get my $ back. I'm hoping this is resolved by then. If it's not, we may take extra days and drive. Future trips to WDW, Canada, & Japan (that were in the planning stages) are on hold.

First, even though you are apparently against the new screenings, you won't commit to not flying. Yes, your future trips on hold, got it. But you won't take a stand for your May trip. Why not?

I was simply questioning where Grace came up her 15%. It seems like she found a poll that said 15% of people are against the scans and she equated that to a 15% drop in travelers. That's not logical, AND she doesn't back it up with a source. I was simply pointing that out.

 

[goofy4tink]

I have a trip next May with rented DVC points. I can't get my $ back. I'm hoping this is resolved by then. If it's not, we may take extra days and drive. Future trips to WDW, Canada, & Japan (that were in the planning stages) are on hold.

And that is your right. But I truly think that the vast majority of fliers aren't going to change their plans. Of course, if they do, then you will see things change and change quickly.

I am flying into and out of MCO in a few weeks. I am flying out of Boston, which does have those scanners. Already been through them with no issue. So, I'll have to see what transpires then. I may try to opt out of the scan just to see what happens. See the things I do for you people??? First I had to take the Mears shuttle to my resort so I could let you know first hand how it was. Now, I'm opting for a personal pat down.

 

[goofy4tink]

Could be. I have a friend (not a friend of a friend) that was asked to remove her sweater by a male TSA agent. She declined. He yelled at her and once again she declined. She didn't have a t-shirt or blouse on under the sweater. He let her go thru the regular metal detector and then had her "randomly" selected by another TSA agent so she could be searched more thoroughly. The female TSA had to check under her bra and between her cheeks (I'm not talking face) while the original TSA agent stood there and smirked at her.

I'm not saying ALL TSA agents are like this but people are encountering this type of treatment. I wouldn't be worried about a pat down if it was a pat down. Seriously people, this isn't a pat down anymore than this is a love pat as the senator from my state would call it.

And I will agree that those types of things are just plain wrong. And letters need to be written, to just about anyone who will listen...the TSA, the airlines, the news media.
I realize that I am going to have to remove my bulky sweatshirt, but my sweater??? And I'm not wearing anything under it??? Seriously?? That would really get me going. Of course, I would be the one to stand there and remove the sweater. Not going to bother me. I would love to see the reaction then. I may have to start flying in a sports bra and a sweater....doing my Brandi Chastain imitation!!!! Bring it on guys!!!! So, when you see the news about the middle aged woman who was told to remove her sweater by the TSA and did so, only to stand there in her sports bra...well, you can all say.."Hey, I know her!!!"

 

[sam_gordon]

Could be. I have a friend (not a friend of a friend) that was asked to remove her sweater by a male TSA agent. She declined. He yelled at her and once again she declined. She didn't have a t-shirt or blouse on under the sweater. He let her go thru the regular metal detector and then had her "randomly" selected by another TSA agent so she could be searched more thoroughly. The female TSA had to check under her bra and between her cheeks (I'm not talking face) while the original TSA agent stood there and smirked at her.

I posted this earlier, but a similar experience *I* had. Going through security, went through the WTMD, no alarms, but the TSA agent says they need to pat me down (this was a year or so ago). So I submit to the patdown and ask why I was singled out (I asked politely, not confrontationally). It was because I was wearing a hoodie (ie: bulky) sweatshirt. I didn't have the option of taking it off.

I'm not saying ALL TSA agents are like this but people are encountering this type of treatment. I wouldn't be worried about a pat down if it was a pat down. Seriously people, this isn't a pat down anymore than this is a love pat as the senator from my state would call it.

Unfortunately, many I think DO believe all TSA agents abuse their power. All the hysteria surrounding the new scans isn't helping.