For veteran DiSsers with autistic children...

[MBW]

Jen, while the GAC may be "unofficially" handled one way, Disney's official policy is that it does not provide for faster access, only separate waiting. I do not believe that is an appropriate accommodation for my children, and probably most other children with Kanner's Autism and other debilitating neurological conditions. If using the FastPass line (without first obtaining a FP) provides express access, then for those rides which have FastPass, that should be the "official" policy. For those rides which don't, an alternate entrance should be provided. It should not be the policy to ask these individuals to return, unless the ride breaks down.

If we know our children's needs, why shouldn't we advocate for them? Because we're afraid other people will be offended if we say express access is an appropriate accommodation? I'm sure there are some people who don't think ramps or handicapped parking spaces are necessary, and a few will even argue that it impinges on their rights. But not so long ago, the pioneers in the accessibility movement fought hard, shrugging off the nay-sayers, and changed the lives of millions of people with physical disabilities with victories such as the ADA.

Autism is a fairly new condition (first diagnosed in the 1930s), but the upsurge in incidence (now 1:166) has only manifested itself in the past two decades. So the policies to provide appropriate accommodation are themselves in their infancy. As MB (yes, there are two of us ) stated above, we stand on the shoulders of those who come before us, and their actions have laid the foundation for the rights and accommodations our children now have. I think we have a responsibility to continue that work, for our children as well as future generations.

So its not enough for me to take my kids to WDW and hope that the CMs are willing to bend the rules so that my kids get the accommodations they need. And to be honest, this is a realization I came to as this thread developed. When I first posted the initial questions, my concerns were that MY kids have a good time and thus I wanted to know if I could depend upon those "unofficial" breadcrumbs from kind CMs. But as we went along, it dawned upon me that accessibility shouldn't be arbitrary; can you imagine not knowing if any given attraction had wheelchair access if you were mobility challenged? Individuals with neuro and developmental disabilities deserve no less. Disney should fix its policies and put them in writing.

 

[JenJen]

I can understand your concerns and I applaud anyone who stands up for the rights of a child with special needs. I think what you are having a problem with is the inconsistency of the guidelines. When I go to the park I normally Bring a Adult with schizophrenia / Bipolar disorder with delusional thoughts who can not be around guest because he may be a danger to himself or others in a Que. Also I have my DS who has Aspergers and DD with ADHD with sensory issues (She is doing much better recently) Then there is me who has Fibromylagia, Chronic fatigue syndrome, seizures and other things that I would rather not list it Will take too much time.
When we go to the park My Friend has his name in the computer (at city hall) and there is notes in the computer so they know what to put on the pass. They put the alternate entrance stamp and a note Highlighted to keep guest away from other guest. Because of this note we normally get on very quickly even bypass the fastpass line. We inform the cast member we are more then happy to wait the length of the line if there is a place we can wait away from the guest and they normally just get us right on.
Now when I bring my kids without my friend There is just the basic alternate entrance stamp. I have never waited more then 10 Mins with this stamp. On the attractions that have Long Lines at the exit because that is there disabled entrance....Cast members normally tell us to go wait in the alternate entrance line and I explain to them that the kids can not wait in that and ask for a time to come back. They ether do that or just let us right in.
I know that each child with autism has differant needs not all are the same that is why they call it a spectrum disorder and maybe your kids can not even wait that 10 mins. If they can not maybe they can put a special note on your pass like they do for my adult friend explaining your Children's needs and that they can not wait. I just don't think that every child in the spectrum is the same and they should automatically go to the front of the line. Some have to but others (Like my kids) are able to go through fast pass they just cannot be surrounded by people or have too much change.
So when you go maybe explain to the cast member your needs and tell them that there is no way they can wait in any sort of line? I will be honest it was not easy getting the special pass for my friend in fact it took a incident at the park for them to make it a priority not to be in any sort of Que.
Maybe you can call the park ahead of time and explain the situation and they can have the pass ready for you when you get there? I have done this on really busy days because I know my friend would freak if he was surrounded by people in city hall.
My point of this post is that the cast members have bent over backwards for me and my family and have always been extremely helpful. There was even one time when my daughter (about 2 years ago) threw herself on the ground in the fast pass entrance of autopia and it took a good 40 minutes to get her up and they had management there and walked us to Health service and let her rest and brought us a new pass that had a intersection type light thing on it and got us right to the front for the rest of the day. This pass is normally given to make a wish kids with no exception but they knew she was having a bad day and accommodated us.

I think the best thing for you to do is call and have everything ready before you get there because you have several people that need accommodations and having it ready when you get there and not having to stand there and explain everything to them may be a benefit.

I really hope you have a great time and hope that you are accommodated for all your needs.
Jen

 

[Cheshire Figment]

One of the problems Disneyland used to have was they treated almost all disabilities the same, and their old "Special Assistance Pass" (SAP) gave Front Of The Line (FOTL) access. They switched to Disney World's "Guest Assistance Card" (GAC) concept because, it was discovered, they were issuing more SAPs a day at DL than GACs at all WDW parks combined.

One thing specifially included in the GAC (and Disney policy) is that it is not intended to provide FOTL access, but to allow those with disabilities the same access as everyone else.

The only ones provided FOTL access at WDW are those from MAW/GKTW and that is becuse the children involved usually have life-threatening and/or terminal illnesses and many of them, even in a chair, do not have the ability to have a full day in the parks. The problem with providing FOTL access is that it is very easily subject to abuse, which is why this is a very special exception.

However, as several people have stated Disney does provide procedures to allow people who have a problem with waiting in line to wait away from the line. This allows the people to do other things and come back at a designated time. The key to this is that it does not provide better access than the general public (who, incidentally, are paying the same price).

I personally do not have any autistic children but do have several relatives who do, so I am not unfamiliar with the problems. One thing, I feel, must be considered. Eventually these children who must have everything right now will grow up. At some point parental responsibility must come into play to realize that as young (or older) adults these children will have to wait in lines, and they need assistance now to help them in the future.

 

[3kidsmommy]

I personally do not have any autistic children but do have several relatives who do, so I am not unfamiliar with the problems. One thing, I feel, must be considered. Eventually these children who must have everything right now will grow up. At some point parental responsibility must come into play to realize that as young (or older) adults these children will have to wait in lines, and they need assistance now to help them in the future.

Umm..have you EVER spent 24/7 with the relatives that have actual autistic children? I am not counting PDD-NOS, Asperger's, or any other on the spectrum. Yes, eventually these children will get BIGGER but they will NEVER, EVER, EVER grow up--not EVER. They will be forever dependant on us, the parents, or siblings who HAVE grown up. They will always require special accomodation. My 7yo son functions at a 3 year old level for most things. This is only after countless hours of therapy. He still does not play with children (so that is a lower functioning area--even a 3yo will play next to a peer), read, do math, understand the CONCEPT of time (hence why waiting is so difficult!!!) and will forever be with us. My son is not a spoiled brat as you imply with the above comment--he doesn't need to have everything right now. He does, however, need ot have things RIGHT NOW when he knows we are at WDW or Universal or wherever and he sees something that catches his eye and wants to ride and feel it NOW NOW NOW..I am sorry if that irritates you--I would trade any day to have my son be neurotypical.
NOW, that said...I have never had a problem with any park accomodating my son. I am very specific with what he needs to allow all of us to have a good time. My other children usually wait the line. (And they do this willingly.) Still, don't attack something you have no idea of what you really are talking about. I take offense because I LIVE this nightmare every day.
For everyone...please...be nice and realize most people who have special needs children aren't looking for a free ride--we just want to enjoy our children the best we can.

 

[Talking Hands]

Honestly? No, I would not think the vacations you describe would be the best. I would not pick a mounting climbing vacation if I could not walk. I would not pick a vacation to look at Art or Paintings if I was blind. I would not pick a Orchestra concert tour if I could not hear. I would not pick a beach vacation if I was allergic to the sun. I am not saying that there should not be accomodations for those who need them of course, but if I had a major problem with the whole basic premise of a venue (lines, climbing, etc), I would not necessarily spend a week or more at that venue.

If the fast pass is not acceptable to you, what would be?

I am as you call it hearing impaired. I prefer to be called Deaf or if you must hard of hearing. I enjoy shows like beauty and the Beast, Hoop Dee Doo Revue,
Phantom of the Opera. While I can hear the music I can't make out the words at theses shows so requests Sign Language interpreters. You mean I should give these things up because I need accommodations? Don't think so. Autistic kids enjoy DIsney just like any other kid. In fact, many of them have major breakthroughs after visiting WDW. To keep them away would be a real shame.

 

[JenJen]

Please keep in mind that Disney only has to provide access to all venues to those with disabilities. Anything beyond that is a courtesy. I am not trying to be mean but try going to Six flags for the day with your Autistic child and you will appreciate what Disney does! They are awesome!

 

[SueM in MN]

One of the problems in all of this is that WDW is a collection of parks with a collection of attractions that were built over a long time period. Whatever disability or special need you can think of, different attractions are not equally accessible for that disability. Some are very accessible for that disability, some are not.
If they were building 4 brand new parks right now, they would probably do things differently. It would make sense to make all the attractions consistent in what they offer and how the waiting process works. Doing that would make it easier for guests (because they would constantly know what to expect and what to do) and for CMs (less training).

But, as it is, every attraction is different. Some have alternate entrances, some don't. Some have a quiet place to wait, some don't. Some of the alternate waiting areas or alternate entrances are very small and if they are already full, the next special needs party to arrive will be given a slip of paper (a sort of CM issued Fastpass) and asked to come back. Some of the alternate entrances/waiting areas require a CM to access and a CM might not be immediately available, so a wait might be involved or a slip might be given.
So, sometimes a wait is not because the CM/attraction is insensitive to the special needs, but because the needs can't be met right then. There isn't a lot of consistency because there are too many variable involved. And, with so many variables, there really isn't a way to have a totally consistent policy.

That's why I have written before that if someone can use Fastpass, that is the most consistent option; it's set up to bring guests to the boarding area 10-15 minutes after reporting to the Fastpass line. For some people, Fastpass works well, is a good choice and enables them to go on attractions without using a GAC (any member of the party can get the Fastpasses if being in the area of the attraction without going on is a problem for the person with special needs). Fastpass might not be a good choice for other people.

Going during non-peak times is another possible choice. The queues during non-peak times are usually very short, so most people with special needs don't need a GAC then.
Going to the park at openings is a choice that works for some other people. I can't get my youngest DD ready to go that early, but DH and other members of our party have gone (even during the busiest part of Spring break) and were able to basically walk on everything as fast as they could go thru the line.
Sometimes, getting to the parks later in the day works well too. For example, we have found that AK clears out by about 3 pm and waits in line are very short (to non-existant) after that.

The GACs that are offered are an attempt to provided needed accomidations.
Are they perfect? No
Are all the CMs always handling them exactly how they should? No

But, for the most part, it seems to work fairly/quite well (or at least that's what I see from most of the people who post here.)

 

[Brightsy]

I[m one of the relatives CheshireFigment was talking about. I have a 6 yr. old w/ ADHD and a 4 tr. old w/ ASD.
Uncle ChechireFigment has not spent 24/7 time w/ us but he has spent a lot of time with us, mostly at WDW.
He has a better than laymans understanding of ASD.
Are you talking about the "true" Autism, the kind often associated with Savant behavior and/or severe cognitive delays and such? I ask because you made a point of distancing those w/ PDD-NOS, Aperger's or the other spectrum disorders.
My 4 yr. old was diagnosed as a HF ASD kid shortly after he turned 2. We're lucky (and we inclused my DH, both DSs and me) that his delays aren't too bad. He's talking at around a 30-36month level and his social development is around the same. HE has minimal sensory issues, although he's unusual in that is both hypo-AND-hyper sensitive...it depends on the environment he's in which way he goes.
Anyways. I understand your situation with you kids is different than mine.
I understand in your case your child may never truly grow up/ But don't forget that some, many kids w/ ASD do have a future which may include leaving home, living on their own, maybe having their own families.
I sure as heck hope for that for my little guy. I pray that someday he'll be able to be a fully functional member of society paying his own way through life (with whatever help he needs for his special issues) happy in his independence. I also realize this may never happen. So be it...he's one of the brightest lights in my life and I'd do anything for him (and his older brother of course).
Uncle CheshireFigment wasn't trying to imply that these kids who need everything right now will nec. become spoiled Brats. He has a valid point. We use our GAC at WDW as sparingly as possible. We know what my DSs tolerances are, usually (as w/ all kids w/ this kind of disorder little things can set them off and cause difficulty). We've been trying to build my younger DSs tolerance for waiting in line. I don't thik he'll ever be ablet be able to handle an hour long line in a big crowd, but *shrug* maybe he will some day.
Anyways, part of raising ANY kid is to try to teach them to the level they can learn. In some cases, maybe like yours, this may mean a need for alternate access or less waiting time for always... so be it.
But if A child (not necc your or mine) has the ability to learn to wait, to delay gratification then they should be placed in situations that encourage and challenge those areas. Ultimately it's up to us parental units to ensure these situations are handled well.

Sara

Umm..have you EVER spent 24/7 with the relatives that have actual autistic children? I am not counting PDD-NOS, Asperger's, or any other on the spectrum. Yes, eventually these children will get BIGGER but they will NEVER, EVER, EVER grow up--not EVER. They will be forever dependant on us, the parents, or siblings who HAVE grown up. They will always require special accomodation. My 7yo son functions at a 3 year old level for most things. This is only after countless hours of therapy. He still does not play with children (so that is a lower functioning area--even a 3yo will play next to a peer), read, do math, understand the CONCEPT of time (hence why waiting is so difficult!!!) and will forever be with us. My son is not a spoiled brat as you imply with the above comment--he doesn't need to have everything right now. He does, however, need ot have things RIGHT NOW when he knows we are at WDW or Universal or wherever and he sees something that catches his eye and wants to ride and feel it NOW NOW NOW..I am sorry if that irritates you--I would trade any day to have my son be neurotypical.
NOW, that said...I have never had a problem with any park accomodating my son. I am very specific with what he needs to allow all of us to have a good time. My other children usually wait the line. (And they do this willingly.) Still, don't attack something you have no idea of what you really are talking about. I take offense because I LIVE this nightmare every day.
For everyone...please...be nice and realize most people who have special needs children aren't looking for a free ride--we just want to enjoy our children the best we can.

 

[Amii]

Not trying to start a fight...but if your child cannot handle waiting in lines at all (does not understand he cannot do the activity RIGHT NOW!), then is a vacation that involves all lines for all attractions the best vacation for him?

I have 2 children. One is autistic and one has as. My kids both do better after a trip to Disney. They have taken developmental leaps while visiting Disney. I have also heard other parents of autistic children say this from time to time. They can't handle waiting in lines, but that does not mean Disney is not the best vacation for them.

 

[cymomtx]

We went to DL in July and WDW for Thanksgiving with our 2 autistic children and had no issues with the GAC. We entered every ride at the Fast Pass entrance or the exit if there was no FP and waited no more than 5-10 minutes to get on the ride with no questions asked.

 

[leise]

MBW, good to see you posting, I can't believe it was last June you went on your trip, it seems like yesterday.

I wanted to add a couple of points. My son, 6, has classic autism, and is probably functioning as a 3 - 4 year old on average (but my, has he got a spiky profile!).

He is one who has learnt to queue for something he really wants with the aid of a GAC.
He will not queue under any circumstances for a ride he has never been on before, so we use the GAC to go on it that first time. Then if he wants to go again we encourage him to queue as normal, as long as the queue is a reasonable length (wouldn't try if it was over 30 minutes). That said he stunned me on our last trip when he insisted on queueing for an hour to go on Snow White, in the noisiest, most crowded queue you can imagine. "Snow White Ghost Train" he kept saying. But luckily he is able to understand that he can't go on things again and again without going round to the front of the queue again.

I just wanted to clarify, as I don't think anyone has mentioned that you can use a GAC with an alternative entrance stamp to join the Fastpass line without actually having Fast passes; for example if you have already ridden once with a fast pass, or if there are none left for that day. This means you can access a much shorter queue at any time, if that ride has Fast Pass. It is also good for those people who are worried about standing out and having others think they are getting preferential treatment, as no-one else in the Fast Pass line knows whether you have a fast pass or not. I have to say I am not one who gives a monkeys what other people think, and I feel very strongly I should never worry about asking for what my son needs. But I know lots of us are, and indeed, many of the children themselves, especially the higher functioning ones who really don't want to stand out more than they do. For these people being able to use Fast pass is great.

I suppose it comes down not only to the many various factors SueMN mentions, but also the many different shades along the autistic spectrum. Very hard for Disney to formulate a policy for "autistic kids" when they have so many different needs. But it needs to be brought to their attention that some of those needs include no queuing.

mmb, we are there feb 1 - feb 15. Will look out for you!

 

[MBW]

Please keep in mind that Disney only has to provide access to all venues to those with disabilities. Anything beyond that is a courtesy.

I spent the weekend going through much of the DoJ's ADA litigations and agreements over the past few years, and the question of access and accommodation for non-apparent disabilities is still being addressed in an ongoing fashion. However, it is pretty clear from a number of recent decisions that the issue of "time" is a valid one in accessibility for a number of disabilities. For example, under Title II, students with learning disabilities are eligible for special "extra time" accomodations when taking standardized tests, even "private" tests, such as the SATs.

Title III covers Disney and other public facilities, and it is more than just "access" - a lot of the suits filed were "line of site" for individuals in wheelchairs in cinemas and theaters. So just getting someone in the door isn't considerated appropriate accommodation.

I also spoke at length with a good friend who is a ligitation specialist (teaches such at a law school) who agrees that waiting in a separate area is not enough of an accommodation under the ADA for individuals with waiting issues (he also has a son with Kanner's autism.) In addition, the DoJ looks particularly kindly on accommodations which are not costly, yet accomplish the goals of the ADA. Express access is dirt cheap.

Someone made a point earlier that FOTL is only for children on MAW. This generally is because children with life-threatening illnesses are physically unable to wait long periods. But when a child's neurological condition prevents them from handling a long wait or a refusal for entry (which to many autistic kids is how thay perceive being handed a FastPass), it becomes a physical issue as well. (And for those who argue it's a courtesy for MAW children due to their increased chance of morbidity, I'll point out that the mortality rate for children with full-blown autism is more than 600% that of NT kids, 1100% for girls with autism. However, I think Disney is more concerned with following ADA than good will for very sick kids.)

I want to add to all this that I think Disney does do a better job than most places (though Sesame Place takes the cake as they walk all autistic children to the front of the line, plus do not charge entry for their caregivers.) But, that doesn't mean they can't do better, or at least be more consistent. I'm not looking to sue Disney; but I don't think it would hurt for them to sit down in DoJ mediation and try and get a better understanding of what real accessibility means for individuals with serious neuro-developmental disabilities.

 

[spider]

Haven't posted on here for over a year but felt compelled to after reading all of the posts on this thread

It still amazes me how people are so intolerant to disabilities, even intolerant to fellow parents who have children with autism. If there is one thing that I have learnt since my 10 year old son was diagnosed ("classic autism") 8 years ago is that autism is a "spectrum" which means exactly that, there are the triad of impairments, however, they manifest themselves in different forms for each individual child, what is typical for one child is not typical for another and so on...................

Whilst I have every respect for parents who have HF autistic kids, this does not mean my child with "classic autism" will have anywhere near the ability that a HF child will have, hence the need for HF in the equation.

I have used a GAC for my past 2 visits with great results, accessing the FP line is a Godsend, given that it costs us a small fortune to actually cross The Pond in the first place, we are thankful for any kind of assistance given. But that said, that is FINE for my son, but I know of many children who have differing behaviours who would find even the shortest of waits agonising.

Indeed, there was the incident last year where queing for the Haunted Mansion where a small child was crying incessantly - crying babies is a big NO for my son, no tolerance whatsoever - and my son took the childs soother out of her mouth - to do what I really don't know, but it did stop the child from crying as she was so shocked he had taken it!!! However, the parents were particularly rude even when we tried to explain our son is autistic, they seemed not in the least interested??? Not the typical behaviour of a then 9 year old eh?? Anyhow I digress........

We are back to WDW in July this year, we can only do this time of year due to schooling etc for my eldest son, the GAC will be treated with the upmost respect, but I do think Disney should have some clearer policy where autism or neurological disability is concerned and "train" their CM accordingly.

MBW - you are singing from the same hymn sheet as me, I have asked various authorities/people why they feel it necessary to ignore my son's invisible disability, why they think it totally acceptable for my son to "behave" normally, by asking them would they ask a blind person to drive themselves to work, would they ask a paraplygic to get out of their wheelchair and walk to the shops? No, they wouldn't so why are people so eager to make assumptions about my son??

Sorry, slight rant there, but had the urge to make a statement

 

[Cheshire Figment]

but I do think Disney should have some clearer policy where autism or neurological disability is concerned and "train" their CM accordingly.

Unfortunately Disney does what it can and is very limited by the staff. Walt Disney World is the largest "single site" employer in the United States (other than some military installations) with approximately 57,000 Disney employees (and this does not include people at the non-Disney hotels). Many of them are College Program. Also, especially during the summer, they have CMs as young as 15 years old (who have one or both parents as full-time CMs.

You may run across a person like me, who is 65 and knowledgeable, or you may run across an 18 year old and this is the first job out of school and with poor grades also. It sometimes is hard enought to train the new employees in just the functions of their jobs, let alone to recognize

I work at Park turnstiles. Often I can tell if a person is going to have, for example, problems in doing the biometric finger scan and I will almost automatically, as soon as I recognize a problem, hit the override button to accept the ticket without the scan. Many of the younger ones will do their job mechanically without really thinking.

Disney does try, but they do not get the highest quality people unless it is someone for whom the pay is not significant but works there more for the fun of it. Actually, I probably spend more in a month in buying for my collection than I earn from Disney.

 

[leise]

Bearing your post in mind Cheshire Figment, maybe the need for a clear policy is all the more urgent.

I tend to think there needs to be a stamp for those children who cannot queue for any length of time, that allows front of line access similar to the MAW stamp.

All I can say is I have no idea how you would "police" this and stop it being abused, bearing in mind Disney can't ask for proof of need. Certainly a tough one.....

 

[MBW]

Bearing your post in mind Cheshire Figment, maybe the need for a clear policy is all the more urgent.

I tend to think there needs to be a stamp for those children who cannot queue for any length of time, that allows front of line access similar to the MAW stamp.

All I can say is I have no idea how you would "police" this and stop it being abused, bearing in mind Disney can't ask for proof of need. Certainly a tough one.....

When we applied for a US National Parks "Golden Access" pass last year, the Dept. of Interior had just changed its policy to take into consideration the "no proof" requirement (they used to require some pretty tough documentation.) What they now do is have the applicant for the pass sign a statement, under threat of perjury, that they (or their child/ward) are truly permanently disabled.

It seems as though it would discourage all but the most determined abusers to know they could be prosecuted if they claimed to need that level of accessibility fraudulently. And I imagine most of us who truly need the accommodation will have no qualms about putting a legally backed signature to paper.

 

[leise]

That seems like a good idea, and I think it would work.

 

[SueM in MN]

It seems as though it would discourage all but the most determined abusers to know they could be prosecuted if they claimed to need that level of accessibility fraudulently. And I imagine most of us who truly need the accommodation will have no qualms about putting a legally backed signature to paper.

The honest people would do that, but there are plenty of dishonest people who would do whatever it takes to get a GAC. I read on a CM board that there were even people selling counterfeit MAW badges in the outside of Disney hotel areas a few years ago.

 

[leise]

Oh no Sue that's terrible!!!! But I can believe it.

 

[MBW]

The honest people would do that, but there are plenty of dishonest people who would do whatever it takes to get a GAC. I read on a CM board that there were even people selling counterfeit MAW badges in the outside of Disney hotel areas a few years ago.

But do we harm the people who really need this accommodation just because there are a few really bad apples? Obviously, my answer is no. There are bad people everywhere, and what makes us a compassionate society is that, despite them, we take care of our most needy.