? For those going through or already divorced and have children..

[Fizban257]

Originally posted by PrincessDeb
As a side note, my husband and his ex went through lawyers but only for filing purposes. She is listed as having "primary custody" but he sees his kids almost half the time anyway. They have always put their children's welfare first and my stepchildren are very well-adjusted. It can be done (although probably not with your BIL from what you've said!).

ITA, it can be done, especially outside of the court room. Perfectly amicable splits with total agreement on what to do can end up in bitter, nasty battles once lawyers get involved. The legal system is by nature an adverserial, confrontational place--not exactly conducive to calmly deciding the best welfare of the children. I've been working very hard for the last several years to try and handle everything outside the court system for this very same reason. It's not easy though, my ex has "won" every time we've been inside the courtroom, so it's very tempting for her to want to drag me back there as often as possible. Can you believe I actually had one judge decide that our son would be better off with me, but not better off enough to justify the move!?

 

[Jenn Lynn]

My Sister is going through this right now. He was being nice (almost too nice) until this last week. He owns his own business and does not want my Sister to know what he is really making. He just wants my Sister to make them an offer for support and the like. But her lawyer said no way. Not until they hav ALL of his information. His lawyer is getting a letter today stating this.He (BIL) is going to be PO because he wants to keep it out of the courts. Thinks my Sister is going to ruin his reputation. Let me tell you, it is a small town and he is doing that perfectly fine on his own. His own parents won't even talk to him.

Yesterday he also threatened my Sister with fighting for Full Custody if she took it to the courts. Said he would drag it out for 3 years. He thinks that she should be grateful that he is not fighting for the kids and just accept his terms.

He really wants to keep it out of the courts. So we are all waiting to see what will happen.

 

[Fizban257]

Jenn Lynn,

I dont' mean to offend, so I apologize if I do. But your sister's situation is exactly what's wrong with the court system. Everyone was being nice, he wasn't contesting, offered to pay support, asks how much shes thinks she needs... then the lawyer steps in and says no way. The lawyer advises she press him to find out how much he's worth, so they can wring every last cent out of him (I've been in this spot). So he gets angry and threatens to fight for custody... next thing you know they can't stand to be in the same room together ands they kids have an already bad situation for them trned into a living hell. My advice to your sister is to tell him how much she needs to support the kids, if he's willing to pay what she wants, smile, take the money, and go back to raising the kids together as best as they can. The court system is a trap! I know because I've been caught in it.

 

[PrincessDeb]

Fizban- ITA!
On a side note-the only thing that my husband has had problems with is his ex's lawyer made her file the support with the court "in case there were problems in the future". My husband had been paying her directly the first of every month. His lawyer told him this would protect him, too. NOT! Instead, we are at the mercy of the domestic relations section garnishing and not garnishing his paycheck on whims and treating him like a delinquent dad. He would even call to get an address to send payment to and they would act like he should know already! Very frustrating!
Keep everything out of court if you can!

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Well, there is more to it than that. She said when they have his information they will make an offer. How is that wrong? She is entiled to it by law. And he wants to go by the financial information he has provided so far which is NOT what he really makes. So he already has an idea of what he thinks he should/wants to pay. She doesn't want every last penny. Frankly, I think she is still to concerned about his well being. All she wants is want is hers and the kids.

Oh and there will be no raising the kids together the best they can. He is an alcoholic. And he is using his kids as weapons. Doesn't call to see them, etc. She will move away when this is over. And I am willing to bet money he won't even care. He can't wait to get rid of them fast enough. He is using the custoday as a weapon to hurt my Sister. It's all a smoke screen. My sister has bent over backwards being nothing but nice to him. He was the one who twisted it around.

What does it say when your own family think you are being a complete ******* to your kids and wife? When they have witnessed his behavior first hand and refuse to speak to him?

 

[Jenn Lynn]

OK, I just re-read that and it sounds harsh. I am not offended by anyone's opinion.

My Sister really doesn't want it to go to court either. That just drags it out. She wants to move on with her life, but she doesn't want to get screwed over either.

 

[Desnik]

I thought child support is based on a certain percentage of your pay based on the amount of children. I thought it isn't something that is negotiable. At least that's what my sisters lawyer told her. We live in NY and I forgot the percentage but, it comes out to almost $1600 amonth BIL has to pay for child support. My sister can have this amount garnished from his wages. She is simply asking for half of their assets, sell the house and split the profit. She is entitled to 5 years of maitenance. She is only asking for 3 yrs. and a minimal amount. He makes 6 figure salary and she makes about $10,000 a year, if that. They have been married for 13 years. I think she is being reasonable. The last thing she wants is to drag this out and be in the courrt system. She has a very good lawyer and they will try everything to keep this between them and the lawyers.

poohandwendy
I completely hear what you are saying and I do agree. I do see his point and we all can see things from his perspective. His world, life as he knew it is crashing around him. I do think he is acting out in anger. Unfortunately the kids suffer. I do know he loves them in his own way. He has always resented my sister and thought she was a spoiled brat because our father gave us everything we wanted. He would make her work for everything. There was no partnership there. In his eyes he would rather slit his wrists than give my sister money of any kind! My sister walks around with $5 in her pocket most of the time!! Her pay check pays her car payment.

My parents got legally seperated 2 years ago this June. After 37 years, and 3 kids. I have a 12yo sister and my father didn't contest one thing my mother asked for. She got a settlement of $60,000 per year for the next 10 years, then after she just gets child support until my sister is 21!! She kept the house, he kept his pension, everything else was split down the middle. Till this day he'll go to my moms house and ask her if she needs something, is she OK with money. My sister sees that and I think she thought her husband would do the same. The rest of us knew better.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by Desnik
I thought child support is based on a certain percentage of your pay based on the amount of children.

Yes, this is what I thought too.

 

[Fizban257]

Jenn,

Sorry, sounds like things already turned ugly. I of course don't know your family or any of the particulars so I didn't mean to offend. In the long run your sister will get more of what she wants sooner and easier outside the court system, trust me. As PrincessDeb just posted, even when you try to follow all the rules, have the courts automatically garnish your wages, etc. it still turns into a mess. After years of fighting we finally pulled our support checks away from the court system. They took the money automatically from my check every two weeks, but my ex would get checks at random intervals, for random amounts. In the end I had to get on them to find what they did with the money and get it released to her--a total nightmare. Seriously, your sister should make an offer based on what she needs, not what the courts tell her she's "entitled by law." That's were the trap lies, it sound perfectly reasonable to go after what the lawyer's tell you is really "yours to begin with." Then one day you wake up and find yourself in this bitter war with the kids caught in the middle. Your BIL may be an alcoholic and a complete ***, but he's still the kid's father..they will be the ones hurt by all of this.

 

[aprincessmom]

Most states have a set formula that takes into account the amount both spouses make, household expenses, potential salary growth, potential earning power (if one spouse is not employed), etc. The courts in MA won't allow any type of settlement unless ALL financial records are revealed to both sides and are in the hands of the court so they can review them. Even if you make a deal ahead of time the court can overrule it in the interest of the children based on what they see within those financials.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Fizban257-I'm not offended. I can see your point as well.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by aprincessmom
Most states have a set formula that takes into account the amount both spouses make, household expenses, potential salary growth, potential earning power (if one spouse is not employed), etc. The courts in MA won't allow any type of settlement unless ALL financial records are revealed to both sides and are in the hands of the court so they can review them. Even if you make a deal ahead of time the court can overrule it in the interest of the children based on what they see within those financials.

See my Sister has NO finances. She is a SAHM. She is also entitled, by law, to half of his business. He, obviously, doesn't want her to know how much it is really worth.

 

[Fizban257]

Originally posted by Desnik
I thought child support is based on a certain percentage of your pay based on the amount of children. I thought it isn't something that is negotiable.

Yes, and no. The courts determine support using a chart based on the income of both parties, the number of children, and an arbitrary percentage figure. But, negotiating out of court is the best way to reach a fair understanding, because the courts very rarely take into consideration the particular facts on the ground in any individual case.

So, in my case, my wife left me for another man, took my son, moved him hundereds of miles away, and I get to pay her 25% of my income for the favor, regardless of the fact that they moved so her new husband could take a job where he makes more than me and my new DW combined and she can stay at home. She doens't need the money, we desparately do, but since she's "entiteld to it by law," she takes it anyway, and my younger son has to do without.

The court system destroys families.

 

[Fizban257]

Originally posted by aprincessmom
The courts in MA won't allow any type of settlement unless ALL financial records are revealed to both sides and are in the hands of the court so they can review them. Even if you make a deal ahead of time the court can overrule it in the interest of the children based on what they see within those financials.

Am I the only one who finds this frightingly wrong? Talk about hubris.

 

[aprincessmom]

She doens't need the money, we desparately do, but since she's "entiteld to it by law," she takes it anyway, and my younger son has to do without.

The court system destroys families.

Doesn't sound like the court destroyed your family, your ex-wife did.

 

[Fizban257]

Originally posted by aprincessmom
Doesn't sound like the court destroyed your family, your ex-wife did.

You actually made me smile with that! Thank you!

You're right, of course, the court system is merely her enabler, I guess. And, I must confess, it's been mine at times too, I'm afraid. It really is quite easy to get sucked into it--you're just so sure you're right...

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

in NY the custody laws are gender neutral, both parents are viewed as fit custodians. there has been a bias in the courts towards the mohter, especially with young children, though that is slowly changing. your sister has the "edge" because she's the primary caregiver, working part time and taking the 2 year old with her to work. though it's good that she's going to "tone down" her social life for awhile. she's entitled to a private life, but now is not the time. a NY court won't award joint custody unless both parties agree to it, though they tend to be very liberal with visitation.

the child support standards act provides for a fixed percentage of the noncustodial parent's income to be paid as child support --- for 3 kids, I think it's 29% of his gross earnings less FICA. but hed also be responsbile for unreimbursed medical expenses and child care costs on a pro rata basis (comparing his income to hers). the parties can make arrangements other than what is provided for in the statute, but they have to justify their arrangements as being in the children's best interests.

in addition to child support, your sister will receive equitable distribution of marital assets, and given her limited earning power, she may be entitled to maintenance -- in NY we don't have alimony, we have rehabilitative maintenance, payable for a short period of time, to tide the recipient over until they can become self sufficient again.

it sounds like this divroce is already starting to get ugly. [[hugs]] to you and your sister.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
in NY the custody laws are gender neutral, both parents are viewed as fit custodians. there has been a bias in the courts towards the mohter, especially with young children, though that is slowly changing. your sister has the "edge" because she's the primary caregiver, working part time and taking the 2 year old with her to work. though it's good that she's going to "tone down" her social life for awhile. she's entitled to a private life, but now is not the time. a NY court won't award joint custody unless both parties agree to it, though they tend to be very liberal with visitation.

the child support standards act provides for a fixed percentage of the noncustodial parent's income to be paid as child support --- for 3 kids, I think it's 29% of his gross earnings less FICA. but hed also be responsbile for unreimbursed medical expenses and child care costs on a pro rata basis (comparing his income to hers). the parties can make arrangements other than what is provided for in the statute, but they have to justify their arrangements as being in the children's best interests.

in addition to child support, your sister will receive equitable distribution of marital assets, and given her limited earning power, she may be entitled to maintenance -- in NY we don't have alimony, we have rehabilitative maintenance, payable for a short period of time, to tide the recipient over until they can become self sufficient again.

it sounds like this divroce is already starting to get ugly. [[hugs]] to you and your sister.

This sounds exactly like what my Sisters lawyer has been telling her regarding the law. She does not think my Sister can get alimony since they have only been married for 2 years (together 5.), but she should be able to get maintenence. This is in Kentucky.

It makes sense to "hear" it like that.