For the non soccer fan, would having a professional team in your home town/city change your mind about the sport?

[sam_gordon]

Where I grew up (Washington DC suburbs) soccer was pretty big. It now seems that most kids that play team sports will play soccer at a young age. However, I don't know when or if the US Men's team will ever get to an elite level. I think our best athletes tend to gravitate to other sports when they get older, such as American football, basketball, etc... I was recently talking to a soccer coach that had an interesting theory. He said that American soccer coaches tend to want to be more managers of good talent, rather than true developers of elite talent. He said the coaches will select and form a team of cubic zirconia and often miss out on recognizing the true diamonds in the rough that could be developed into truly elite players, but may not be as polished. He had an interesting perspective, as he came from a Caribbean island in which he said young kids played soccer in the streets at an early age just for fun. He said that those everyday touches and playing is lacking with our structured organized youth leagues here. I thought his perspective was interesting.

You grew up in a large city. I grew up outside a small city. The more people that play/learn the game, the more people that will pass it on to their kids. I remember playing wiffle ball in my friends backyard. Didn't even know what a soccer ball was. Parents who love the game will at least try to get their kids to enjoy it. We're not there yet, at least not in the numbers needed. I think we're just now getting to the point where coaches had played at some point in their life.

And I hate the "we're missing the diamonds in the rough" trope. How do you want them to be found? Do you think someone found Patrick Mahomes throwing a football in his backyard and said "he's going to be the top NFL quarterback"?

Many kids who play in the "structured organized youth leagues" also get touches and play outside of those leagues. I remember DS telling me he and his friends would play soccer at recess in elementary school.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Where I grew up (Washington DC suburbs) soccer was pretty big. It now seems that most kids that play team sports will play soccer at a young age. However, I don't know when or if the US Men's team will ever get to an elite level. I think our best athletes tend to gravitate to other sports when they get older, such as American football, basketball, etc... I was recently talking to a soccer coach that had an interesting theory. He said that American soccer coaches tend to want to be more managers of good talent, rather than true developers of elite talent. He said the coaches will select and form a team of cubic zirconia and often miss out on recognizing the true diamonds in the rough that could be developed into truly elite players, but may not be as polished. He had an interesting perspective, as he came from a Caribbean island in which he said young kids played soccer in the streets at an early age just for fun. He said that those everyday touches and playing is lacking with our structured organized youth leagues here. I thought his perspective was interesting.

This is what its like in Europe too

Using the football player from my neighbourhood as an example. He was just a kid on the street playing football with the other kids for fun. At age 10 he was on the neighbourhood team, then he joined a little league team in a different neighbourhood. This little league team had connections to the UK Premier League and when he was 16 he was signed to the junior team of a UK Premier League team. And then once he was in the junior team he moved up to the main team and then the rest is history.

But like in the Caribbean, he started by just being out on the street after school , kicking a ball with the other kids.

 

[sam_gordon]

This is what its like in Europe too

Using the football player from my neighbourhood as an example. He was just a kid on the street playing football with the other kids for fun. At age 10 he was on the neighbourhood team, then he joined a little league team in a different neighbourhood. This little league team had connections to the UK Premier League and when he was 16 he was signed to the junior team of a UK Premier League team. And then once he was in the junior team he moved up to the main team and then the rest is history.

But like in the Caribbean, he started by just being out on the street after school , kicking a ball with the other kids.

But "structured leagues" are bad.

 

[soccerdad72]

Pre-covid times, we usually make a point of going to a Columbus Crew (2 hour drive from us) game once or twice a year. Even saw them in the MLS Cup a few years ago. Like others, having kids that play helps drive my interest as well.

 

[_19disnA]

I think you could have a similar discussion about many other sports........would you watch/attend if sport X was in your city? Some people just like to watch/attend sporting events even if they have never played that sport. I agree it also takes $$$ to host a large sport and there needs to be some kind of return on the investment to make it worthwhile or else the taxpayers are stuck with the bill.

Reminds me somewhat of the Olympics which now cost a TON of money to host and many of the one-time venues end up empty once the games are over and that city/country is left with a HUGH financial burden. The Olympic organizers seem oblivious to that and certainly there are things they could do to lessen the financial impact.

 

[starvenger]

I think you could have a similar discussion about many other sports........would you watch/attend if sport X was in your city? Some people just like to watch/attend sporting events even if they have never played that sport.

I've never played organized football, basketball or hockey (I was a soccer and baseball kid), but I've certainly gone to watch games. The common thread here is that we get a lot of exposure to the Big 3 (and hockey) in Canada/US so even if you're not a grassroots fan the culture of those sports tend to permeate their cities. So going to one of their games doesn't necessarily feel wrong.

The same could be said of association football... basically everywhere else in the world.

Reminds me somewhat of the Olympics which now cost a TON of money to host and many of the one-time venues end up empty once the games are over and that city/country is left with a HUGH financial burden. The Olympic organizers seem oblivious to that and certainly there are things they could do to lessen the financial impact.

The Olympics, in terms of intent, are a good thing. Bringing athletes together in the spirit of competition is great. But like many good things there is a layer of corruption and greed that you go through to get to that good thing. And it's telling that we've gotten less candidates for future Olympiads - cities are getting wise to the fact that you'll lose a lot of money without having lots of existing infrastructure to support the games.

 

[Park Pirate]

You grew up in a large city. I grew up outside a small city. The more people that play/learn the game, the more people that will pass it on to their kids. I remember playing wiffle ball in my friends backyard. Didn't even know what a soccer ball was. Parents who love the game will at least try to get their kids to enjoy it. We're not there yet, at least not in the numbers needed. I think we're just now getting to the point where coaches had played at some point in their life.

And I hate the "we're missing the diamonds in the rough" trope. How do you want them to be found? Do you think someone found Patrick Mahomes throwing a football in his backyard and said "he's going to be the top NFL quarterback"?

Many kids who play in the "structured organized youth leagues" also get touches and play outside of those leagues. I remember DS telling me he and his friends would play soccer at recess in elementary school.

I don't really have a dog in this argument - I was just relaying what the coach said and what I thought was an interesting perspective. My point about kids playing it where I grew up is that soccer has been extremely popular for young kids in parts of the USA for over 40 years. The DC area was certainly one of those, but I am guessing that it was in other large cities. I even remember going to Washington Diplomats games in the since folded NASL. That professional soccer league was not popular in DC alone. In fact, according to a quick search, the New York Team, the Cosmos, "averaged over 28,000 fans for each season from 1977 to 1982 while having three seasons of the average attendance topping 40,000 spectators per game (Wikipedia - I know)." Some of these games were also televised. So, large portions of the US population have been exposed to the game for years.

Also, I am not sure what you are saying about the 'Diamonds in the Rough' argument. I think your point is correct. Patrick Mahomes certainly has the talent, but had to be developed into a great quarterback. Heck, two of the most successful quarterbacks in our time, Manning and Brady, do not come across as uber-athletes, but were developed into elite players. But that is American football not soccer. I think the coach I was talking to would argue that elite soccer players are not being developed in the US. Statistics say he may have a point, in terms of Men's soccer.

Also, please do not think that I am against structured sports - they obviously have their place and my kids have participated in them for years. I think the coach's point was that in many cases the structured, several days a week situations actually take touches and enjoyment away (drills rather than just playing and experimenting) from the younger kids. While there may be some soccer played at recess (we did as kids) for 20-30 min. a few days a week, it is not the every day, wherever you could play for a couple hours that he described. Having not lived in the Caribbean Islands, Europe, or South America, I can only take him at his word that this exists elsewhere.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Patrick Mahomes certainly has the talent, but had to be developed into a great quarterback.

We must not be watching the same Mahomes. Mahomes works his butt off but he has techniques and style that I doubt coaches would actually teach. He's fast and makes split second decisions that still come across like he knew what was going down. One of the reasons he's considered such a great promising athlete is just because of that, because he plays, right now at least, differently than other quarterbacks. If you watch him he takes control of the ball more than many quarterbacks do. Over time he might settle down but I don't think it's doing him justice by saying he had to be developed into a great quarterback.

I think the coach I was talking to would argue that elite soccer players are not being developed in the US. Statistics say he may have a point, in terms of Men's soccer.

For this point I think it's a relatively new development in terms of how talent is found. The professional team in my area is Sporting KC. They actually recruit in addition to the MLS draft through their Academy. As a result we have players that are from our direct area who have grown through the Academy to hone their skills.

Looking into it here's some background (taken from their About Us page on Sporting KC's website):

• In 2006 Major League Soccer announced an initiative that created a “Homegrown Protected List” for each team. Clubs now have the opportunity to retain the professional rights of players developed within its youth academy. Sporting KC immediately began investing significant resources in the identification and development of young players from the region. Sporting KC along with all other MLS Academies, is a participant in the FIFA training compensation and solidarity payment system, as codified in FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players.
• The Sporting KC Academy has produced 12 homegrown players who have been signed to the Sporting Kansas City senior team. The Academy program is fully funded, meaning the Academy covers all costs for gear and traveling expenses.
• U.S. Soccer created the Development Academy in 2007 to improve the everyday environment for the elite youth player. The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an everyday environment designed to produce the next generation of U.S. National Team players. The Academy also connects National Team coaches directly with the Academy clubs to develop and identify players and coaches for future youth national teams.
• In 2016, the Sporting KC Academy launched the Centers of Excellence for the U-11 and U-9 age groups. The Sporting KC COE is a supplemental training program with the aim to strengthen player's skill foundations and identifying players for Sporting KC Academy teams.

Now all that being said those are structured programs but they are designed for youths interested in playing in a league as more than just a past time and gives them the opportunity to do so.

So we're probably not going to be on the level that the world uses in terms of soccer I'd argue ever but that's okay honestly. We have baseball, we have football (American) that are predominately our sports and basketball to an extent (depends on where you live in the US if it's NBA or college), other countries have soccer, rugby, cricket, etc. It's just different sports that are super popular. If you swap soccer out for basketball here it's likely similar to what that coach described (though I don't know exactly how he described it happened) where kids just pick up a basketball, go to a court and play for a while.

 

[tvguy]

You grew up in a large city. I grew up outside a small city. The more people that play/learn the game, the more people that will pass it on to their kids. I remember playing wiffle ball in my friends backyard. Didn't even know what a soccer ball was. Parents who love the game will at least try to get their kids to enjoy it. We're not there yet, at least not in the numbers needed. I think we're just now getting to the point where coaches had played at some point in their life.

And I hate the "we're missing the diamonds in the rough" trope. How do you want them to be found? Do you think someone found Patrick Mahomes throwing a football in his backyard and said "he's going to be the top NFL quarterback"?

Many kids who play in the "structured organized youth leagues" also get touches and play outside of those leagues. I remember DS telling me he and his friends would play soccer at recess in elementary school.

Wiffleball is what we played at home. My parents backyard was half an acre and that was our stadium. I bet soccer is 100 times more popular today than it was when I was a kid in the 1960-70's. Soccer was a "unit" in our High School P.E. classes, along with flag football, softball, badminton, track, biking riding and swimming, and our High School did have a Soccer team, they won the area title, probably because so few other High Schools had teams. Actually, nearly 50 years later, one of the players from my High School soccer team is a big youth soccer coach here. The big issue during my daughter's soccer playing time was availability of fields to play on. Park districts had the space, but face it, soccer destroys fields which are often also the common open spaces in parks. They play here August through December and it takes almost until the next August for the grass to grow back after a season of soccer.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wiffleball is what we played at home. My parents backyard was half an acre and that was our stadium. I bet soccer is 100 times more popular today than it was when I was a kid in the 1960-70's. Soccer was a "unit" in our High School P.E. classes, along with flag football, softball, badminton, track, biking riding and swimming, and our High School did have a Soccer team, they won the area title, probably because so few other High Schools had teams. Actually, nearly 50 years later, one of the players from my High School soccer team is a big youth soccer coach here. The big issue during my daughter's soccer playing time was availability of fields to play on. Park districts had the space, but face it, soccer destroys fields which are often also the common open spaces in parks. They play here August through December and it takes almost until the next August for the grass to grow back after a season of soccer.

Yup. And I grew up in the 70s & 80s. We did not have soccer in school, I don't think we even did it as a unit in PE class. It can tear green spaces up, but "smart" organizations find ways to rotate and move fields year to year (or season to season) to help prevent that. I know it can't always be done, but it sure helps.

 

[Park Pirate]

We must not be watching the same Mahomes. Mahomes works his butt off but he has techniques and style that I doubt coaches would actually teach. He's fast and makes split second decisions that still come across like he knew what was going down. One of the reasons he's considered such a great promising athlete is just because of that, because he plays, right now at least, differently than other quarterbacks. If you watch him he takes control of the ball more than many quarterbacks do. Over time he might settle down but I don't think it's doing him justice by saying he had to be developed into a great quarterback.

I think our definition of developed may be different. Surely you don't think he picked up how to best read defenses and recognize ball placement, etc.. on his own and I sincerely doubt he did not get any help developing the speed and strength needed to get into the NFL. I don't think anyone can just do well in the NFL on talent alone - development and coaching is a big part of the process.

 

[sam_gordon]

U.S. Soccer created the Development Academy in 2007 to improve the everyday environment for the elite youth player. The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an everyday environment designed to produce the next generation of U.S. National Team players. The Academy also connects National Team coaches directly with the Academy clubs to develop and identify players and coaches for future youth national teams.

The DA system just ended over the summer(?- maybe the spring). The problem I have with the DA system is it's not encompassing enough. There's only certain teams in certain areas. In my opinion, here's how it should work...
1) Kids start play "recreation" soccer at a relatively young age (which they do now).
2) Area travel/select coaches should be watching those kids starting at U6/U7 to start seeing who has a knack for the game and talk to the parents about getting into the U8/U9 "academy".
3) Coaches develop players in their own academies, but also scout other players' academies.
4) These coaches report to a state organization the names of those players they think can make the "next step".
5) Statewide (or multiple, but no more than 3 depending on the size of the state) teams are formed starting at ~U13. They have four(?) dedicated weekends per year where they get together and play against other state teams. This should be done at no cost to the player (with the exception of if parents travel to watch the weekend).
6) Regional (and possibly national) coaches watch/scout at those events. They invite players to regional "camps", where they evaluate more.
7) Two weekends a year, the regions get together for games against other regions. At this point, you should be seeing the best of the best in an age group. Again, there should be no cost to the players for this. And obviously National (and international) scouts should be at these events.

That's just a rough idea, I'm sure there's a lot of details that would need to be figured out.

ETA: The constant scouting & invitation should continue through all ages. Someone who picks up soccer at age 9 for example should still be scouted as (s)he develops, no different than those who started at 4/5.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think our definition of developed may be different. Surely you don't think he picked up how to best read defenses and recognize ball placement, etc.. on his own and I sincerely doubt he did not get any help developing the speed and strength needed to get into the NFL. I don't think anyone can just do well in the NFL on talent alone - development and coaching is a big part of the process.

I was more speaking because you said Had to be developed. Some of these great quarterbacks already had innate skills. Mahomes has skills. Even then you can't deny that the way he plays is not the way many quarterbacks play. I wasn't saying honing of skills isn't being done but "had to be developed" implies, at least to me, like there wasn't something there to begin with versus what I consider normal parts of a sport. A player learns how a specific team plays and how a coach coaches. There's is a great relationship with Reid and Mahomes. I don't think every coach out there would allow Mahomes to do what he does. I certainly wasn't saying he didn't get help and just did it on his own but at the same time the ones we think of as great had something going on that others simply didn't. All players have to hone skills, all players have to learn how to work with their teammates, all coaches have to do the same learning how to play off the players. But that to me doesn't translate into saying someone had to be developed, I just consider that part of a sport that everyone involved does.

I suppose it's just different definitions being thought of though.

 

[mjkacmom]

We have 5 turfed fields for soccer (3 full sized), and 2 grass fields (that really aren‘t used anymore except for some rec soccer). It’s so nice not to worry about rain soaking the field (they’d postpone games to prevent the field from getting destroyed).

 

[Park Pirate]

I was more speaking because you said Had to be developed. Some of these great quarterbacks already had innate skills. Mahomes has skills. Even then you can't deny that the way he plays is not the way many quarterbacks play. I wasn't saying honing of skills isn't being done but "had to be developed" implies, at least to me, like there wasn't something there to begin with versus what I consider normal parts of a sport. A player learns how a specific team plays and how a coach coaches. There's is a great relationship with Reid and Mahomes. I don't think every coach out there would allow Mahomes to do what he does. I certainly wasn't saying he didn't get help and just did it on his own but at the same time the ones we think of as great had something going on that others simply didn't. All players have to hone skills, all players have to learn how to work with their teammates, all coaches have to do the same learning how to play off the players. But that to me doesn't translate into saying someone had to be developed, I just consider that part of a sport that everyone involved does.

I suppose it's just different definitions being thought of though.

Yes, I think it is just different definitions. I said that Mahomes is really talented - talent is obviously needed. But, I stand by my statement that he, like every other NFL player, had to be developed to do well in the NFL. I think this originated with my coaching friend, not necessarily me (I don't follow soccer well enough) saying that coaches here are not developing our Men's talent to be really competitive at a top world level.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

I highly doubt it.

We don’t really have any professional teams in our city but we do have a popular college football team (not soccer but closest example I have). No matter how much national notice the team gets I still hate football. I’m not a fan of soccer either and I don’t think a professional team would change that.