For people with younger kids: College Planning

[crisi]

There have been two threads recently on college planning, and a mistake a lot of people make is not thinking about this early. So I'm going to start a thread where some of us who have been there - my oldest is a Senior in high school next year, so I'm not quite there, but have been interested in the topic for years - going on eighteen of them - can tell you about what we did early right, or didn't do and wish we had - since you might not even open a thread about college when you are worried about the Kindergarten supply list for next year.

I suggest you search up a FAFSA (that's the government financial aid application) calculator now and put in your anticipated numbers. Its going to give you an expected family contribution. That is just an estimate and it will change, but that represents money you need to come up with, in savings or in loans.

I also suggest you start a resume for your kid starting in middle school. Put on activities, leadership roles, and volunteer activities. Get your kid some leadership experience (don't depend on them being made captain of the volleyball team in high school - look to church/scouts/community leadership opportunities that are usually less competitive) and make sure they volunteer. This isn't necessary, but helpful in getting into a stretch school or getting scholarship money.

Research - read the college issue of financial magazines. Talk to friends/relatives who have already gone through the process

Find out what your school's (elementary through high school) progression is for college bound kids if you want to set the college expectation. This is the one I did poorly on. My elementary/middle and high schools are not well integrated to understand the total progression of a kid. My son wasn't put on a college ready path - despite getting good grades in elementary school - in middle school, and I didn't realize it because I didn't understand the progression. My daughter had the opposite problem - she was accelerated in math - so now she is a Junior with two years of high school math - including pre-Calc. The level of math she has is appropriate for college, but college wants three years, and she doesn't want to take Calculus. She'll take a PSEO (post secondary enrollment) Stats course and a Computer Science course instead, but it would have been so much easier for her had we not done the acceleration. (Its awesome for kids going into a STEM field to have two years of college level/college credit math under them already - for someone going Liberal Arts, it isn't needed)

Finally start saving whatever you can as soon as possible. If your kid doesn't go to college (one of mine won't) you can use it to take a fantastic trip somewhere. Few people end up saving more than they need.

 

[havaneselover]

I haven't been there but the best thing my ex and I did was fund four years of tuition for both children at any public university in Virginia. And we got a nice tax deduction for doing so.

 

[barkley]

mine's in college but our experience is recent so i'll share as well-

I also suggest you start a resume for your kid starting in middle school. Put on activities, leadership roles, and volunteer activities. Get your kid some leadership experience (don't depend on them being made captain of the volleyball team in high school - look to church/scouts/community leadership opportunities that are usually less competitive) and make sure they volunteer. This isn't necessary, but helpful in getting into a stretch school or getting scholarship money.

I agree with this-I made a folder and a log sheet to keep track of all the activities/volunteer work dd did. I also kept any certificates (honor roll...) in there (or at least a copy). when she was selected for a bi-county activity I kept the program that listed her name. when it came time to apply for scholarships we had everything at the ready to detail out.

find out mid junior year in high school when teachers/staff want requests for letters of recommendation. the teachers get inundated in senior year so if your kid can get theirs ahead of the crowd it may be a bit more detailed (and you will have them for the scholarships you apply for during the summer of junior year).

if you hear a teacher/staff member is retiring during ANY year of your child's high school time-if it's one that would provide a good reference, have your child ask for a letter (and ask the person writing it to explain that the reason they are writing it early in the kid's high school career is b/c they are retiring).

ANY LETTERS OF RECCOMMENDATION-ask the writer for one copy you can make copies of, and 3-4 sealed in school letterhead envelopes with school seal on back to show it hasn't been opened (we had lots of scholarships that wanted sealed letters).

don't immediately assume that if your kid doesn't get the top grades, participate in sports or hasn't done any leadership roles in high school that they won't be awarded any scholarships. dd never did a sport in her life, never did a leadership role, had decent grades (but below 3.5) yet she scored the highest number of scholarships in her graduating class (not the top dollar amount but still a nice chunk of change). this was in part due to applying for local lower dollar ones that the bulk of her classmates felt weren't worth their time to apply for. they opted to just go for the high dollar ones (often state or national)-there's lots of competitors for those vs. one that are just available to kids in your own school, district or county.

near the end of junior year start google searching commonly asked scholarship application questions-and have your kid work on a master rough draft for the top few. this can be used as a template to do actual applications.

IMPORTANT-find out what the deal with scholarships is for the college you kid is thinking of attending. some take one master application for all school administered ones-and have an early (in the student's senior year) deadline to submit w/all verifications.

 

[crisi]

mine's in college but our experience is recent so i'll share as well-

That's who I hope will share, those with recent experience....mine is mostly theoretical - but we've done a good job of saving and have a high income - my aid information is likely to remain unpracticed.

I'll add one. I've told my kids they need a direction, not a destination. They can change their mind, but you need to work towards something. And don't close doors until you are pretty sure you want them closed. Hence my daughter doing accelerated math, just in case she decided to pursue a STEM field.

You can open them again later - usually - but its harder.

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Great idea, Crisi! My DDs are 13 and 17, but I have been following your advice since I joined these boards nine years ago. I'm so grateful to you and Barkley and everyone else who shares their experiences.

I have one thing to add about the math - both of my DDs are math kids. DD17 took math 1 in eighth grade (not uncommon here) and math 2 and 3 in ninth, which put her on track for precal as a sophomore and calc as a junior (or she could have taken both as a sophomore since we have block scheduling). But everyone we talked to said to wait for calc until senior year. This was confirmed by every college admissions presentation/tour that we attended - they all wanted calc senior year or in college (both the state schools and the private schools). So she opted for AP Stats as a sophomore and held off on precalc until junior year, and she will take calc next year. Many of her friends have finished calc and don't know what to take next year. I'm sure she would have been fine either way, but I didn't realize that every school we visited would say the same thing, and sometimes you find out things too late.

(There are some exceptions to the math suggestion - NC has a residential school of science and math for juniors and seniors. If your child wants to go there (or someplace similar in your state), it is important to hit math and science hard early and often. Many of those kids have finished calculus by tenth grade.)

Another tip - find out early what the requirements are for the schools your child is interested in. DD17 is/was interested in two schools that require a fine art credit, but she hasn't taken a fine art. I contacted the school that made her top five list and asked about the fine art - they said she wouldn't be denied admission if she didn't have it, but they liked kids to have one if possible. DD is trying to figure out if she is willing to take the hit on her class rank to take a fine art (or take an AP art history or music theory class online). As a rising senior, a fine art class wasn't in her grand plan and she only has one year to fit it in if she wants it.

Starting the resume in middle school is a great tip, and one we learned from DD17s fifth grade teacher.

 

[havaneselover]

Great idea, Crisi! My DDs are 13 and 17, but I have been following your advice since I joined these boards nine years ago. I'm so grateful to you and Barkley and everyone else who shares their experiences.

I have one thing to add about the math - both of my DDs are math kids. DD17 took math 1 in eighth grade (not uncommon here) and math 2 and 3 in ninth, which put her on track for precal as a sophomore and calc as a junior (or she could have taken both as a sophomore since we have block scheduling). But everyone we talked to said to wait for calc until senior year. This was confirmed by every college admissions presentation/tour that we attended - they all wanted calc senior year or in college (both the state schools and the private schools). So she opted for AP Stats as a sophomore and held off on precalc until junior year, and she will take calc next year. Many of her friends have finished calc and don't know what to take next year. I'm sure she would have been fine either way, but I didn't realize that every school we visited would say the same thing, and sometimes you find out things too late.

(There are some exceptions to the math suggestion - NC has a residential school of science and math for juniors and seniors. If your child wants to go there (or someplace similar in your state), it is important to hit math and science hard early and often. Many of those kids have finished calculus by tenth grade.)

Another tip - find out early what the requirements are for the schools your child is interested in. DD17 is/was interested in two schools that require a fine art credit, but she hasn't taken a fine art. I contacted the school that made her top five list and asked about the fine art - they said she wouldn't be denied admission if she didn't have it, but they liked kids to have one if possible. DD is trying to figure out if she is willing to take the hit on her class rank to take a fine art (or take an AP art history or music theory class online). As a rising senior, a fine art class wasn't in her grand plan and she only has one year to fit it in if she wants it.

Starting the resume in middle school is a great tip, and one we learned from DD17s fifth grade teacher.

I need to look into the math recommendation. I took AP calc as a senior (that's what advanced students did in my home town in CT), but my dd is on track to take it as a junior and some of her friends will take it as sophomores. But this seems to be how it's done in VA and she'll likely go to a public college in VA so maybe that's okay???

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

I need to look into the math recommendation. I took AP calc as a senior (that's what advanced students did in my home town in CT), but my dd is on track to take it as a junior and some of her friends will take it as sophomores. But this seems to be how it's done in VA and she'll likely go to a public college in VA so maybe that's okay???

I would ask her guidance counselor or the school she is interested in. One of DDs top choices is UVA, and one of the questions during the admissions presentation was about math. The person giving the presentation said they want it as a senior or at UVA. Others, like Duke, specifically said they do not want it taken as dual-enrollment at a community college, which some students do around here, but they want to see math the senior year, whether it is calc or something else. I'm sure it varies by school and even by who is asked. For us, AP Stats was a reasonable option for DD to take as a sophomore - we thought it was important for her to have math each year because she wants to be an engineer.

They can't take everything as a senior, though. DD just finished AP chem as a junior, and I'm sure it would have been better for her to take it closer to college. But she also needs to get her third and fourth years of a language in (actually, she only needs three years but wants to take four) and we were told she should take a language as a senior. There are only so many spots!

 

[havaneselover]

I would ask her guidance counselor or the school she is interested in. One of DDs top choices is UVA, and one of the questions during the admissions presentation was about math. The person giving the presentation said they want it as a senior or at UVA. Others, like Duke, specifically said they do not want it taken as dual-enrollment at a community college, which some students do around here, but they want to see math the senior year, whether it is calc or something else. I'm sure it varies by school and even by who is asked. For us, AP Stats was a reasonable option for DD to take as a sophomore - we thought it was important for her to have math each year because she wants to be an engineer.

They can't take everything as a senior, though. DD just finished AP chem as a junior, and I'm sure it would have been better for her to take it closer to college. But she also needs to get her third and fourth years of a language in (actually, she only needs three years but wants to take four) and we were told she should take a language as a senior. There are only so many spots!

Thanks. I went to UVa and that may be her top pick so I'll definitely look into it.

 

[DVCcurious]

Help me answer this:

I have 2 kids ages 6 & 4.

We have about 80k on a home equity line of credit as a second loan (one of those 80/10 mortgage deals). (yes, our condo cost like 850k, no it's not a mansion, it's 950 sq feet; yes real estate in New York is ridiculous).

We can save about 30k per year.

Do we pay off the heloc over the next 3 years then move the 30k to college saving, or save for college and leave the 80k balance and pay just interest (assuming better returns in the market) or do both (like 15k to each)

So far I've been saving and have 50k saved. But I've started listening to Dave Ramsey podcasts and he acts like debt is evil and must be eliminated asap. I can't cash out the 50k to pay off the heloc (it's a 529)

 

[KarenAylwood]

Love this! Thank you Crisi. I've got a 3 year old (well, 3 this weekend!) and are trying for a second so this hits home. We need to buckle down and start saving. It's one of those financial things I've been putting off. I had never thought about keeping track of everything the way some have talked about- that's a great idea.

 

[tiggerluver12]

I have a DD who recently graduated from college (aerospace engineering), a DD currently in college (plays collegiate softball) and a DS who just graduated high school and will be attending college in the fall to become a pilot.

Best recommendation is once in high school (and if you can afford it) put your kid in classes that teach them how to take the SAT and the ACT. Those test scores pretty much determine how much merit scholarship money you kid will get.

 

[amylevan]

I need to look into the math recommendation. I took AP calc as a senior (that's what advanced students did in my home town in CT), but my dd is on track to take it as a junior and some of her friends will take it as sophomores. But this seems to be how it's done in VA and she'll likely go to a public college in VA so maybe that's okay???

I took AP Calculus AB my junior year and AP Calculus BC my senior year. There is some overlap in material, but if both are offered by your high school, it is an option. (But since I went into a STEM field, having two years of calculus was something that I felt benefited me ultimately because my calc background was super strong, but for a liberal arts major it would have been useless.)

 

[havaneselover]

I took AP Calculus AB my junior year and AP Calculus BC my senior year. There is some overlap in material, but if both are offered by your high school, it is an option. (But since I went into a STEM field, having two years of calculus was something that I felt benefited me ultimately because my calc background was super strong, but for a liberal arts major it would have been useless.)

I believe I took BC (in the early 90s) but I'm not sure. It translated into 8 credits. But calculus is useful for economics majors.

 

[Colleen27]

We're sort of all over on this one - a senior, a sophomore, and a 3rd grader - so I'm learning on the fly at all three levels and with two very different paths in mind.

I love the idea of a resume. That's something I really need to work on with DD14, because she's got all these activities and honors but no coherent record of them. Even applying for HS scholarships, we found that there were things we'd forgotten about. A few more years certainly aren't going to make remembering everything any easier.

Math credits are a minefield, it seems! DD took college prep track freshman math as an 8th grader, so her senior math class will be calculus - something she might not have chosen to do if we'd thought about it from the start. But we didn't look ahead that far. We decided based on what she could handle at the time and we knew she'd do well in the course. We also didn't realize that it would show up on her HS transcript (because she attended the HS that offered the class; kids who attended other schools only got credit for it as placement). Since she plans to take statistics too, she'll actually have 6 HS math credits when she graduates.

With DS, I'm quickly learning the value of flexibility in saving. A sizable chunk of my kids' college funds are in prepaid tuition plans gifted from a relative, but some of the schools DS is looking at are trade/tech schools, not colleges, so that plan may not do him any good. And the aid options for some of the schools are really limited - no FAFSA or federal funds available if the program isn't accredited as a college. I'm strongly encouraging community college, even at the out-of-county premium it will take (which almost approaches university per-credit-hour rates) to send him to a school that offers the programs he's interested in, because funding a dedicated trade school is much more difficult and confusing.

 

[crisi]

Our high school has multivariate calc your Senior year for those that are accelerated - taught as College in the Schools by the University of Minnesota - so there is math for all but the most advanced kids - and most colleges aren't going to turn their noses up at a multivariate calc credit from the UofM (ranked #69th nationally in Universities). But if your kid wants to be a Social Studies teacher or Accountant, they don't need multivariate calc - or any calc at all.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I need to look into the math recommendation. I took AP calc as a senior (that's what advanced students did in my home town in CT), but my dd is on track to take it as a junior and some of her friends will take it as sophomores. But this seems to be how it's done in VA and she'll likely go to a public college in VA so maybe that's okay???

I would ask her guidance counselor or the school she is interested in. One of DDs top choices is UVA, and one of the questions during the admissions presentation was about math. The person giving the presentation said they want it as a senior or at UVA. Others, like Duke, specifically said they do not want it taken as dual-enrollment at a community college, which some students do around here, but they want to see math the senior year, whether it is calc or something else. I'm sure it varies by school and even by who is asked. For us, AP Stats was a reasonable option for DD to take as a sophomore - we thought it was important for her to have math each year because she wants to be an engineer.
They can't take everything as a senior, though. DD just finished AP chem as a junior, and I'm sure it would have been better for her to take it closer to college. But she also needs to get her third and fourth years of a language in (actually, she only needs three years but wants to take four) and we were told she should take a language as a senior. There are only so many spots!

DS just finished his first year at UVA. He took AP Calc AB his junior year and AP Calc BC his senior year of high school. Unfortunately his BC teacher wasn't good, left halfway through the school year and kind of messed the kids up. DS ended up placing into Calc 2 at UVA, so he took that 1st semester of college. Around here all the college admissions people stress rigor. They realize all high school programs are different and offer different types of courses. They tell the kids to take the most rigorous courses available at their high schools. For high schools in my area that means AP courses - lots of them. And the hardest math and science courses offered at you HS even if you plan to be a liberal arts major. You need the most rigorous courses just to get in to UVA.

I haven't been there but the best thing my ex and I did was fund four years of tuition for both children at any public university in Virginia. And we got a nice tax deduction for doing so.

We did the same thing. We did the Prepaid Tuition 529 Plan. Each of our children has 4 years of tuition and mandatory fees already paid for. We cashed in all their savings, including savings bonds, when they were little and added in a few tax returns to buy as many years as we could up front. The rest we've been paying monthly for the last 13 years. In order to fund room, board, books and required computer, we saved a couple more years of tax refunds, tightened our belts and I got a better paying job. We are able to pay the room and board out of monthly cash flow using UVA's monthly payment plan. We have filled out the FAFSA each year, but we are only eligible for the $5500 unsubsidized loan, which we did not take.

One thing I want to add about the university payment plan. UVA's started in May for the next school year. We were not aware of this as they didn't advertise it at all in any of the admissions or acceptance material. We figured they would tell us about it at DS's summer orientation. I went looking for info so I'd know what questions to ask. THANK GOD I did! If we'd waited until orientation, we'd have missed the sign up completely. As it was, we had to come up with a 20% down payment that we were not expecting. Sign up in May = 5 payments. Sign up in June = 10% down + 4 payments. Sign up in July = 20% down + 3 payments.

DD is starting her senior year of public high school in the Fall, so we are beginning the college application process all over again. Both kids have been keeping resumes since middle school. They have needed them for private high school applications, NHS applications, job applications, scholarship applications, volunteer opportunity applications, etc. She will also be taking ACT/SAT prep courses over the summer. She needs to raise her scores a bit to have a shot at UVA although James Madison is also a top contender. Her criteria: must have dorm style campus community, must have a football team, must have a BSN major. Our criteria: must be in state unless she gets a scholarship. She has considered applying for a Navy ROTC scholarship, so she can add out of state schools to her list.

 

[barkley]

As a rising senior, a fine art class wasn't in her grand plan and she only has one year to fit it in if she wants it.

I'm surprised it isn't a graduation requirement for your dd already.

dd graduated high school in 2013 and even then it was a requirement (1 course), but starting with the graduating class of 2019 (so this year's freshman) the requirement has increased to 2 courses. this may be b/c our state's public and private universities have traditionally required a minimum of 1 for admission while the highly selective are looking for 2-3.

is there any chance your dd could take a community college fine art class over the summer? I know it's not inexpensive in some states but she could get it whacked out in as little as 8 weeks-and in my experience the summer community college classes are smaller and less intensive (added benefit-she doesn't have to report it to her high school so it does not impact her class ranking or gpa).

We have about 80k on a home equity line of credit as a second loan (one of those 80/10 mortgage deals). (yes, our condo cost like 850k, no it's not a mansion, it's 950 sq feet; yes real estate in New York is ridiculous).

We can save about 30k per year.

Do we pay off the heloc over the next 3 years then move the 30k to college saving, or save for college and leave the 80k balance and pay just interest (assuming better returns in the market) or do both (like 15k to each)

So far I've been saving and have 50k saved. But I've started listening to Dave Ramsey podcasts and he acts like debt is evil and must be eliminated asap. I can't cash out the 50k to pay off the heloc (it's a 529)

DISCLAIMER- I know nothing about the rules on the different college savings programs and which ones are the kind where if it doesn't go to college costs you get hit with tax penalties (in addition to the regular taxation) for withdrawing.

that said-while I don't agree with everything dave ramsey says, I follow his program to a great extent-enough that we were able to pay off our home a couple of years ago so I can see the benefits of not having a mortgage (or helo) to pay each month. I think paying off the helo first is a great idea-you've said that right now you can afford to save $30,000 per year (hoping as dave recommends-this is after FULLY FUNDING any retirement for you/your dh). think how much you are paying on that helo each month-that extra amount, once the helo is paid off could be getting thrown IN ADDITION to the 30K at college (or whatever savings purpose).

if you need incentive-use an online mortgage calculator and plug in the numbers to see how much you will save in interest paying off in 3 vs. the full term. it could be a significant chunk of change.


just as an aside to anyone with younger kids-like I said, I know nothing about the specifics of college plans BUT I live in the state that ALL other states (and the feds) are looking to regarding tuition costs. we are the first to have legislation passed to mandate DECREASED tuition costs at all publicly funded colleges and universities within our boarders (dd's university has had to decrease over 15% since this was implemented), and while this is all great for students/parents-some parents are finding that they overestimated how much tuition would cost and as a result will be facing funds in some types of college accounts that will carry stiff financial consequences for accessing for other purposes.

I've heard dave ramsey talk about really researching what type of college savings mechanisms are best for a parent to utilize-and I think with so much attention being put on college loan debt these days there may be some significant changes in the next decade or so. if that's the case then it might be best to consider plans with flexibility for alternative uses.

 

[runwad]

We have a College Jr, Freshman, and High School Sophomore. One of the things I learned when I really started getting interested in college planning when oldest DD was in 7th grade was to get all your money out of taxable accounts and get them into IRA's. We use a Roth IRA for our savings account (you can always take out what you put in penalty free). Our Roth is invested in a money market. But I would say this has definitely helped us with financial aid because retirement accounts are not taken into consideration when doing the FAFSA.

We also started 529 plans for the kids but not until the oldest was 10 and we were done with daycare expenses. Make sure your 529 plans are in the parents names with the kids as the beneficiaries, you don't want your kids to be the owners. A really good book to read about financial planning for college is,"Paying for college without going" broke http://www.amazon.com/Paying-Colleg...oke&qid=1465335331&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1. You can usually get it from the library, a new version comes out every year. But it has a planning section in it for all ages of your children. Very very good resource to learn about maximizing your dollars.

Strive to get that GPA to 3.5 or higher, all the good merit money seems to start at a 3.5 GPA.

Try to take college classes for free in high school to keep your college costs down. My plan was my kids would get one year of college done for free in high school and only need 3 more. It didn't actually work out that way for us but that was the plan I strived for.

Also, a lot of people push community college but what we found is our DD's would've missed out on the merit $$ they got from their colleges if they went the community college route. Yes, the community college was cheaper, but their merit aid was almost equivalent to two years tuition at the college. Had they went to community college first they would not have gotten those freshman scholarships to last all 4 years of their college. So really pay attention and research if community college would actually save you money in the long run.

Another resource I use is the College Confidential message board site. Again a very good resource, those people really know their stuff. It really is a lot of work planning for college now. I feel bad for people who just don't comprehend all this stuff, it is complicated for some.

I was going to go into loans but that is a book upon itself. This is what we do. Only take Federal ones. We qualify for subsidized (gov't pays interest on loans while child is in school) and also get an unsubsidized one (interest accumulates from day 1). There is something called an American Opportunity Tax Credit (read the book above and learn about all this!) that will give you back $2500 on your tax return if you pay at least 4k out of pocket towards tuition. When I get that $2500 back every year I turn around and use it to pay off the unsubsidized loan my DD has. Lots of people pocket that money and never even think to use it to pay off that loan.

My kids work summers and breaks and pay whatever their merit aid, loans and 529's don't. They both should get out of undergrad with about 17k in student loans. Maybe less if they co-op and are able to put that money towards their tuition. Oldest DD is doing that next spring so I'm not sure how all that will work out yet, but I'm hopeful as an engineering major she'll make good money to be able to pay more of her tuition without taking the loans.

Good luck and early planning is the key!

 

[flateacher]

Question about starting the resume in middle school.... Do you really put the stuff your child accomplished in middle school on a college application? Do they really care she was her school's student of the year in 7th or 8th grade going into college? The only reason I ask is because I am an 8th grade teacher and had NO IDEA. My daughter just finished 8th grade and is going into HS. If this is true I better get going and go back and log her stuff! I will also be sure to tell my students this is something they might want to keep track of.

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Question about starting the resume in middle school.... Do you really put the stuff your child accomplished in middle school on a college application? Do they really care she was her school's student of the year in 7th or 8th grade going into college? The only reason I ask is because I am an 8th grade teacher and had NO IDEA. My daughter just finished 8th grade and is going into HS. If this is true I better get going and go back and log her stuff! I will also be sure to tell my students this is something they might want to keep track of.

I think it depends what they do. I didn't list honors or awards from eighth grade, but maybe if they did a camp that relates to their intended major or if they began volunteering someplace and have stuck with it. DD volunteered at a local camp the summer after eighth and ninth grade. The summer after tenth grade, she was offered a position as a paid counselor. She will work there again this summer and next summer. I have it listed to show that she has consistently volunteered at the same place and also has done a good enough job to not only be invited back but also be offered a paid job.