For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Laketravis]

I could list out 50 major things that range from pretty good to revolutionary to the bulk of visitors.

Let's see it.

 

[MrInfinity]

Let's see it.

It'd be fun to but it would take time to come up w a well-thought-out list, and you would dismiss each item one by one with a snide word or two, so it's really not worth it. I mean you reduce TT to looking at cardboard cutouts and flashing lights.

You may have loved it as something it used to be. I get that, I'm sentimental too. But if you saw the look of my kids faces on it, it might rekindle in you that it's ok if the past changes, if the current is really awesome too.

Give it time man. Lots of things are in the works. I believe Pandora will deliver. I've always been mildly annoyed at the Soarin movie showing Disneyland at its finale, and it's titled "Soarin over California" even -- about time it got a new score. Star Wars will not disappoint. Frozen will be fine. They are not doing it justice, I think it deserved more, but they are trying to get a ride presence fast. So okay.

I think all of these things will be underwhelming to you, because you have not much good to say about anything new at WDW. I think they will keep w the general focus of kid-friendly attractions, with the exception being something a little bigger at Star Wars. Again just my opinions.

 

[Money82]

Star Wars will not disappoint.

It's these kind of statements fuzzy in which you lose all credibility. How can you make this statement when the revamped Star Tours already did disappoint?

 

[MrInfinity]

Why does a change in theme bother me so much? Because the current theme isn't as nice as the old one. That's why. Why do you think that your opinion is the right one and everyone else's is wrong unless they agree with you?

What is the deal with being right / wrong. Who cares if you believe the old TT was better than the new one. I've never asserted that either one was better or worse, so why are you saying I have an opinion on the matter? It is you who is insisting the old one is better. We can't ride the old one, and the current one is amazing. When my kids ride it and are thrilled and ecstatic, what more does one need?

Again maybe you are indeed sentimental toward the old one, which is cool, I respect that. Hey I don't like that the Tiki Room lost the fountain scene!!
But it's gone, life goes on. We're going to WDW in a year, and "this is so much worse than the old one" will be nowhere in our thoughts! My kids will love Test Track, they'll sing in the tiki tiki tiki tiki tiki room, in the... for the rest of the trip, and I will talk to my wife about how the Cali show was cool cuz it had the fountain and I remember the fountain from the World when I was little. All this nostalgia stuff is fine, but does not diminish the current experience.

 

[JimmyV]

No. But I believe they are so profitable because they are a company run by brilliant people that operate by pioneering new things. McDonalds is a similar company for fast food.

This fluctuates over time, as all things do. During the Eisner years, WDW saw tremendous strides in pioneering attraction (and entire park) development. Current management leans more to the "polish it up and keep it running" approach. (And doing that rather poorly). Another poster listed out what "growth" we have seen in the past 5 years. Not impressive at all. OK. Individually one could look at a particular project or attraction and conclude that they think it is marvelous. But in the aggregate, this period of "don't spend too much money on growth" approach has been a pretty slow period. And this comes at a time of record earnings. Brilliant people at the helm? Perhaps some. And their brilliance comes in the form of return on investment to shareholders. Nothing wrong with that. But let's not also crown them with being brilliant park builders. There is no reason to conclude that they are both. In fact, it could be argued that it is impossible to be both. IMHO, there are too many high level Disney execs who worked their way up from Main Street Trash Sweeper to conclude that there is brilliance at the top. It is great that Disney promotes so willingly from within, but that is not always the best way to staff upper management. Universal is staffed with Disney expats. Disney is staffed with people who used to load guests onto Dumbo. Which company has been more creative and vibrant over the past 5 years?

You mean the rides could have been more thrilling. They were never meant to be!

No. They simply could have been "better". Take Little Mermaid....please! Seriously. Leave "thrill" out of the equation and where would you rate the 'Clam Shell' ride in comparison to:

• Pirates
• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Jungle Cruise
• Splash Mountain (even assuming that it had no drop)
• Small world
• The Mexico Ride
• Great Movie Ride
• Spaceship Earth
• The old Horizons Ride
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• Pooh

Seriously. If you were to rank them in order, do you think that the Little Mermaid ride would finish anywhere other than bottom three? The "brilliant" Disney execs got into a time machine and traveled back to a time before the '64 World's Fair to come up with this ride.

You say this... But it WASNT. We never rode TT or Imagination pre-refurb, and those are two of our absolute favorite rides not just at Disney World but among all parks everywhere!

How can you compare the "before" and "after" if you never experienced the "before". Granted, the John Michael Higgins pre-show needed serious updating, and the car building pre-show blows the old version out of the water. But once you are on the ride itself, the old version was way better. I say this not as a "Disney hater", but as one who loved the old TT and likes the new one.

Soarin getting a 3rd theater (rumor) and new film (confirmed) instead of showing the Cali Disneyland film.

Ugh. 3D is getting out of hand. We'll see where they go with this, but Star Tours already makes me want to toss my lunch. I'd hate to see them turn Soarin' into a puke-fest.

To some of us, it seems like WDW is riding this wave but not standing up on the surfboard. They don't appear to be making investments in collateral that will hold them up when the next economic cycle appears in terms of being a draw for people who are looking for more for their money. If what we've seen them do during periods of record revenue and wide profit margins is the best they can do, there is concern over what they would bring to the table when margins are tight, there's nothing available for cap-ex, and fewer guests demand more at lower prices.

Perfectly stated.

 

[MrInfinity]

It's these kind of statements fuzzy in which you lose all credibility. How can you make this statement when the revamped Star Tours already did disappoint?

Hehe. We loved the new Star Tours. . I am not "making a statement" I was very clear that was my opinion, that Star Wars will be big. If you read what is clearly an opinion and take it as "the way it is or will be" then that is you misreading. Why not share your own opinion? Feel free to make a case as to what you think Star Wars will include, and then we'll see in a few years who was closer. That would actually be useful to hear your opinions instead of just bashing mine.

 

[Suvadoo]

It'd be fun to but it would take time to come up w a well-thought-out list, and you would dismiss each item one by one with a snide word or two, so it's really not worth it. I mean you reduce TT to looking at cardboard cutouts and flashing lights.

You may have loved it as something it used to be. I get that, I'm sentimental too. But if you saw the look of my kids faces on it, it might rekindle in you that it's ok if the past changes, if the current is really awesome too.

Give it time man. Lots of things are in the works. I believe Pandora will deliver. I've always been mildly annoyed at the Soarin movie showing Disneyland at its finale, and it's titled "Soarin over California" even -- about time it got a new score. Star Wars will not disappoint. Frozen will be fine. They are not doing it justice, I think it deserved more, but they are trying to get a ride presence fast. So okay.

I think all of these things will be underwhelming to you, because you have not much good to say about anything new at WDW. I think they will keep w the general focus of kid-friendly attractions, with the exception being something a little bigger at Star Wars. Again just my opinions.

You make all these boastful comments, but then when someone asks you to prove it, you blow it off.

Ever heard the phrase ," Big Hat no cattle?" If the hat fits.....

 

[MrInfinity]

No. They simply could have been "better". Take Little Mermaid....please! Seriously. Leave "thrill" out of the equation and where would you rate the 'Clam Shell' ride in comparison to:

• Pirates
• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Jungle Cruise
• Splash Mountain (even assuming that it had no drop)
• Small world
• The Mexico Ride
• Great Movie Ride
• Spaceship Earth
• The old Horizons Ride
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• Pooh

Interesting question! I will not compare it to a boat ride, because boat rides are in a vastly different construction budget. We're talking probly 10x as much to build a boat ride as a clamshell ride.

So if you don't mind I'll nix the 5 boat rides, even tho I would put the Mexico ride below Mermaid. The other 4 boat rides (Splash, SW, POTC, JC) are some of the top rides at WDW.

If I rode the Horizons ride, I honestly don't recall it from when I was little. I have googled it several times, and it's pretty weak. And I never cared for Mr Toad, rode it lots of times in Cali so it being nixed in WDW wasn't a big loss to me. Why not add Alice in Wonderland? It's another "okay" clam ride, albeit a staple of DL. I would rank them like this:

• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Spaceship Earth
• Mermaid -- I would put it here.
• Great Movie Ride (out of date, minimal kid-appeal)
• Pooh (a lot of ppl like this? We are not a Pooh fans)
• Alice in Wonderland
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• The old Horizons Ride

So, I put it 4th out of 9. Okay, that's just above the middle, or "top of the middle third" if you want to look at it that way. Means it's not going to be a headliner or overtake the legendary HM, but it's better than most rides. Spaceship Earth is there because it is the staple ride of EC, not cuz of outstanding ride quality.

You could have added Livin w the Land and People Mover too. I would probly put People Mover just above Mermaid and LWTL below GMR, so it doesn't affect Mermaid's position.

So they added one ride which is not a completely revolutionary ride. SDMT, is. It's ok to add some middle-ground rides too, you are not always trying to top the last ride w every single ride you put in. My DD liked it. We rode it like 3 times.

 

[johde]

No. They simply could have been "better". Take Little Mermaid....please! Seriously. Leave "thrill" out of the equation and where would you rate the 'Clam Shell' ride in comparison to:

Just imagine if the Little Mermaid used the trackless cars found the Pooh's Hunny Hut, Mystic Manor, and Ratatouille.

In the "Kiss the Girl" scene, you could have the boat in the center of the room with and your cars could dance along with the music and circle the boat like your part of the choreography of the number. Likewise with the "under the sea" scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU88Bw_ivT8#t=252

And imagine this technology from Mystic Manor for a final battle with Ursula the Sea Hag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5l_Q7Ws7Ks#t=682 .

 

[Suvadoo]

Interesting question! I will not compare it to a boat ride, because boat rides are in a vastly different construction budget. We're talking probly 10x as much to build a boat ride as a clamshell ride.

So if you don't mind I'll nix the 5 boat rides, even tho I would put the Mexico ride below Mermaid. The other 4 boat rides (Splash, SW, POTC, JC) are some of the top rides at WDW.

If I rode the Horizons ride, I honestly don't recall it from when I was little. I have googled it several times, and it's pretty weak. And I never cared for Mr Toad, rode it lots of times in Cali so it being nixed in WDW wasn't a big loss to me. Why not add Alice in Wonderland? It's another "okay" clam ride, albeit a staple of DL. I would rank them like this:

• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Spaceship Earth
• Mermaid -- I would put it here.
• Great Movie Ride
• Pooh (a lot of ppl like this? We are not a Pooh fans)
• Alice in Wonderland
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• The old Horizons Ride

So, I put it 4th out of 9. Okay, that's just above the middle, or "top of the middle third" if you want to look at it that way. Means it's not going to be a headliner or overtake the legendary HM, but it's better than most rides. Spaceship Earth is there because it is the staple ride of EC, not cuz of outstanding ride quality.

You could have added Livin w the Land and People Mover too. I would probly put People Mover just above Mermaid and LWTL below GMR, so it doesn't affect Mermaid's position.

So they added one ride which is not a completely revolutionary ride. SDMT, is. It's ok to add some middle-ground rides too, you are not always trying to top the last ride w every single ride you put in. My DD liked it. We rode it like 3 times.

What do you think is revolutionary about 7DMT ?

 

[Money82]

Interesting question! I will not compare it to a boat ride, because boat rides are in a vastly different construction budget. We're talking probly 10x as much to build a boat ride as a clamshell ride.

So if you don't mind I'll nix the 5 boat rides, even tho I would put the Mexico ride below Mermaid. The other 4 boat rides (Splash, SW, POTC, JC) are some of the top rides at WDW.

If I rode the Horizons ride, I honestly don't recall it from when I was little. I have googled it several times, and it's pretty weak. And I never cared for Mr Toad, rode it lots of times in Cali so it being nixed in WDW wasn't a big loss to me. Why not add Alice in Wonderland? It's another "okay" clam ride, albeit a staple of DL. I would rank them like this:

• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Spaceship Earth
• Mermaid -- I would put it here.
• Great Movie Ride
• Pooh (a lot of ppl like this? We are not a Pooh fans)
• Alice in Wonderland
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• The old Horizons Ride

So, I put it 4th out of 9. Okay, that's just above the middle, or "top of the middle third" if you want to look at it that way. Means it's not going to be a headliner or overtake the legendary HM, but it's better than most rides. Spaceship Earth is there because it is the staple ride of EC, not cuz of outstanding ride quality.

You could have added Livin w the Land and People Mover too. I would probly put People Mover just above Mermaid and LWTL below GMR, so it doesn't affect Mermaid's position.

So they added one ride which is not a completely revolutionary ride. SDMT, is. It's ok to add some middle-ground rides too, you are not always trying to top the last ride w every single ride you put in. My DD liked it. We rode it like 3 times.

Mermaid above Great Movie Ride, Pooh, and Mr. Toad? HAHAHA thanks for the laugh. The only thing that Mermaid has going for it is the queue, especially outside, which is quite lovely. The ride itself stinks and I simply use it to kill time before moving onto the main festivities.

 

[Laketravis]

It'd be fun to but it would take time to come up w a well-thought-out list, and you would dismiss each item one by one with a snide word or two, so it's really not worth it.

No I won't. Let's see it.

 

[Suvadoo]

No I won't. Let's see it.

It's never going to happen.

 

[jade1]

there is concern over what they would bring to the table when margins are tight, there's nothing available for cap-ex, and fewer guests demand more at lower prices.

I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

I'm not so sure.

If they got through tough times with free dining (if you paid full price for everything else) before NFL/Frozen/Pandora/added on Soarin/ added on TSM and maybe Star Wars-they should be able to get through with these additions (and whatever yet to come) with the additional FP+ offerings as well IMO.

Stay onsite and receive free dining and 8 FP+, or 4 each in 2 parks, no tiers and repeats available.

 

[FLchick415]

Mermaid above Great Movie Ride, Pooh, and Mr. Toad? HAHAHA thanks for the laugh. The only thing that Mermaid has going for it is the queue, especially outside, which is quite lovely. The ride itself stinks and I simply use it to kill time before moving onto the main festivities.

Not sure why that's so funny. It's his opinion.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm not so sure.

If they got through tough times with free dining (if you paid full price for everything else) before NFL/Frozen/Pandora/added on Soarin/ added on TSM and maybe Star Wars-they should be able to get through with these additions (and whatever yet to come) with the additional FP+ offerings as well IMO.

Stay onsite and receive free dining and 8 FP+, or 4 each in 2 parks, no tiers and repeats available.

Aren't core prices (onsite resorts especially) substantially higher now than they were during those tough times? Discounts would have to be substantial.

 

[johde]

Interesting question! I will not compare it to a boat ride, because boat rides are in a vastly different construction budget. We're talking probly 10x as much to build a boat ride as a clamshell ride.

So if you don't mind I'll nix the 5 boat rides, even tho I would put the Mexico ride below Mermaid. The other 4 boat rides (Splash, SW, POTC, JC) are some of the top rides at WDW.

• Haunted Mansion
• Journey Into Imagination (any iteration)
• Spaceship Earth
• Mermaid -- I would put it here.
• Great Movie Ride (out of date, minimal kid-appeal)
• Pooh (a lot of ppl like this? We are not a Pooh fans)
• Alice in Wonderland
• Mr. Toad (R.I.P.)
• The old Horizons Ride

So, I put it 4th out of 9. Okay, that's just above the middle, or "top of the middle third" if you want to look at it that way. Means it's not going to be a headliner or overtake the legendary HM, but it's better than most rides. Spaceship Earth is there because it is the staple ride of EC, not cuz of outstanding ride quality.

What if we don't nix the 4 other boat rides. Since, the point of this thread was if Disney hadn't spent money of MDE/FP+ they could have done a boat ride for Little Mermaid. That drops little Mermaid to 8th out of 13 on your list and 8 out of 12 if you drop Alice in Wonderland that never was at WDW. That puts it almost in the bottom third. And in my list, Great Movie Ride and Pooh would be above Little Mermaid. Journey into your Imagination (the middle incarnation) would be waaaaaaay below. The original incarnation above and the current one on par. To me, the Little Mermaid is not a bad ride. It's just looking at what Disney is doing in the rest of the world it could have been so much more. At one time WDW was the site for Disney innovation, that time seems to have gone.

 

[jade1]

Aren't core prices (onsite resorts especially) substantially higher now than they were during those tough times? Discounts would have to be substantial.

I stand by the power of now being able to offer additional FP+ to entice visitors, just another tool in the WDW toolbox nobody else has.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm not going to challenge your order one bit, as it is a matter of opinion. I asked the question and you answered it. Fair is fair. But what I would dispute is:

I will not compare it to a boat ride, because boat rides are in a vastly different construction budget. We're talking probly 10x as much to build a boat ride as a clamshell ride.

So if you don't mind I'll nix the 5 boat rides, even tho I would put the Mexico ride below Mermaid. The other 4 boat rides (Splash, SW, POTC, JC) are some of the top rides at WDW.

The entire point of this thread is to ask the question, shouldn't/couldn't Disney have done so much more with the money it is spending? We both agree that the "other 4 boat rides are some of the top rides at WDW." Doesn't Disney's game-changing animated classic deserve better treatment, (or at least as good as treatment) as Song of the South? Even if that cost 10x what they spent? I'm sure they could have reallocated some money from their wrist band initiative to give guests a new classic ride.

 

[JimmyV]

What if we don't nix the 4 other boat rides. Since, the point of this thread was if Disney hadn't spent money of MDE/FP+ they could have done a boat ride for Little Mermaid. That drops little Mermaid to 8th out of 13 on your list and 8 out of 12 if you drop Alice in Wonderland that never was at WDW. That puts it almost in the bottom third. ...To me, the Little Mermaid is not a bad ride. It's just looking at what Disney is doing in the rest of the world it could have been so much more. At one time WDW was the site for Disney innovation, that time seems to have gone.

Simultaneous post, but we are saying the exact same thing!